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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 6:44:31 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSinMaster

I need someone who can tell me what a legal tracer round contains. Is it phosphorus?

In theory a simple spark could ignite Jet Fuel. Unlikely, but not impossible. It is my firm belief that is why he tried to purchase tracer bullets. I could be very wrong on this one. But given his bump stock device, and savant like planning, I believe I am not. He wanted to burn the world.



In WWII tracer rounds contain red phosphorus I think. Most tracers are military Full Metal Jacket and not considered appropriate for hunting in many states. Anyway, link to current tracer round chemistry:
https://www.bevfitchett.us/chemical-analysis-of-firearms/tracer-bullets.html

The issue with tracers isn't that it is unlawful for for an individual to town but that they have expensive transportation and storage costs. The HAZMAT classification is not only ammunition but for the flammable solid tracer constituent as well. That drives up the cost to the end user.

i.e. 7.62 FMG goes fairly cheap if bought in bulk
https://www.luckygunner.com/rifle/7.62x39mm-ammo
https://www.luckygunner.com/rifle/308-ammo

Tracer ammunition is about twice the cost.
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-lake-city-762x51mm-m62-nato-tactical-tracer-146-gr-fmj-xm62-p-3581.aspx

Even with a tracer, shooting a fuel tank full of diesel/jet fuel/kerosene (all three basically the same thing but different grades of impurity removal) will not catch anything on fire reliably. Now, if you do something to make a cloud of atomized fuel, such as fly a plane into a building, the fuel/air cloud can ignite spectacularly. Tannerite was developed to make things explode when shot for more dramatic sFx in movies. Starting a fire by shooting a container of flammable gas or liquid is a maybe. Getting an explosion when shooting a tank of flammable gas or liquid is an "IMPROBABLE".





Umm....MT, you're comparing Tull, Wolf and Brown Bear cost to Lake City. I won't tell anyone, this is just between us, but that's not reasonable to make an argument.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 701
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 7:03:22 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

Lol, you are welcome.

So you listened when a woman explained to you about situations that make her uncomfortable.

Take a note, HB.


You're just going to ignore anything I say that doesn't fit what you want to believe, but whatever... lucky for you, you get to lecture me about how rape works and get all outraged at my 'victim-blaming', even when I clearly insisted the victim was not to blame. Enjoy the emotional charge of your outrage. I guess people can just do whatever they want and don't need to be cautious about who they get involved with, where they live/go. etc.? That is all I was saying... 'it's probably dangerous to be in such a situation' is not the same as 'bitch had it coming'... but i doubt this will ever register.

The US is definitely a scary place and I never want to live there again... which is also why people need to know about the areas they're moving into, the people they meet and interact with, etc. Surely there are areas where rapist home invasions are less likely to happen? I knew people in college who moved into cheap apartments in rough areas and were shocked when they were robbed over and over by crackheads looking for expensive shit to steal. No surprises there, but it doesn't mean they deserved it... still, there were plenty of student ghettos and ethnic areas where it probably wouldn't have happened.

Of course Nancy is going to fake compassion because that helps his pro gun narrative... but the idea that he's being genuinely sensitive is laughable... he's a pathological asshole. It's also pretty clear at this point that Americans get really upset when you suggest there are alternatives to guns... obviously those alternatives won't be as effective when guns and dogs and huge combat-trained stalkers are everywhere waiting to pounce and the police are nowhere to be found... but despite the propaganda i am still not convinced that guns are the solution... except of course in a paranoid, gun-crazy society like the US, where guns are already so commonplace you will never be able to escape the threat.

I've honestly felt safer in third world countries than in the US, but never to the point where i wished i had a gun.
I guess it's pretty offensive to admit that.

(in reply to Wayward5oul)
Profile   Post #: 702
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 7:35:47 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

Lol, you are welcome.

So you listened when a woman explained to you about situations that make her uncomfortable.

Take a note, HB.


You're just going to ignore anything I say that doesn't fit what you want to believe, but whatever... lucky for you, you get to lecture me about how rape works and get all outraged at my 'victim-blaming', even when I clearly insisted the victim was not to blame. Enjoy the emotional charge of your outrage. I guess people can just do whatever they want and don't need to be cautious about who they get involved with, where they live/go. etc.? That is all I was saying... 'it's probably dangerous to be in such a situation' is not the same as 'bitch had it coming'... but i doubt this will ever register.

The US is definitely a scary place and I never want to live there again... which is also why people need to know about the areas they're moving into, the people they meet and interact with, etc. Surely there are areas where rapist home invasions are less likely to happen? I knew people in college who moved into cheap apartments in rough areas and were shocked when they were robbed over and over by crackheads looking for expensive shit to steal. No surprises there, but it doesn't mean they deserved it... still, there were plenty of student ghettos and ethnic areas where it probably wouldn't have happened.

Of course Nancy is going to fake compassion because that helps his pro gun narrative... but the idea that he's being genuinely sensitive is laughable... he's a pathological asshole. It's also pretty clear at this point that Americans get really upset when you suggest there are alternatives to guns... obviously those alternatives won't be as effective when guns and dogs and huge combat-trained stalkers are everywhere waiting to pounce and the police are nowhere to be found... but despite the propaganda i am still not convinced that guns are the solution... except of course in a paranoid, gun-crazy society like the US, where guns are already so commonplace you will never be able to escape the threat.

I've honestly felt safer in third world countries than in the US, but never to the point where i wished i had a gun.
I guess it's pretty offensive to admit that.

LMAO. Careful now, Tamaka may be around somewhere. Better have mumsey near if you're going to keep this BS up. LOL, poor poor little victim.

(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 703
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 7:45:13 PM   
BlackSinMaster


Posts: 89
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline
I firmly believe he wanted the tracer rounds to ignite the jet fuel storage tank. Or do you see it another way? I myself do not.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 704
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 7:59:30 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSinMaster

I firmly believe he wanted the tracer rounds to ignite the jet fuel storage tank. Or do you see it another way? I myself do not.

That would make sense. However I would like to point out that Mythbusters destroyed that idea .

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BlackSinMaster)
Profile   Post #: 705
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 8:08:17 PM   
BlackSinMaster


Posts: 89
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline
Are you quite sure? This borders on savant like planning. So why would he fuck that one up? Actually you can probably tell me what is in a “legal” tracer round..is it phosphorus?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 706
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 8:12:38 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSinMaster

I firmly believe he wanted the tracer rounds to ignite the jet fuel storage tank. Or do you see it another way? I myself do not.

That would make sense. However I would like to point out that Mythbusters destroyed that idea .


That and that a rifle bullet would cause a scuba tank to explode, ignite a propane tank and a few others.

However, the ammo load of a ww2 fighter included a mix of armor piercing, incendiary rounds (which are different than tracers) with every sixth round a tracer. Machine gun squads loaded a mix of ball and armor piercing with every sixth round a tracer.

The tracers were not to ignite fuel but to allow the gunner to know exactly where his rounds were going, and had a magnesium dot on the base of the round.

Incendiary rounds had a magnesium tip, so that upon impact, IF there was a flammable substance, the magnesium would ignite it. Of course, fuels such as aviation gas and gasoline are not actually flammable, it is the vapors off the fuel that burn, so the incendiary rounds actually ignited the fuel vapor in partially emptied fuel tanks.

Which is why, as WW2 progressed, the AAF, Navy and Marine air arms were scrambling to find a way to keep fuel tanks from catching fire, and by mid 1943 had discovered CO2 works great to prevent it, and by 44 US and British Aircraft were equiped with small tanks of CO2 that fed into the tanks as they emptied to keep the air to vapor ratio in the non combustible range.

During the tests they also discovered that the self sealing fuel tanks on American and British aircraft actually contributed to the problem by allowing just enough air into the tank when punctured that increased the likelihood of the tank turning into a torch.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 707
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 8:13:24 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline
@Nnanji
Just using quick examples of cost of ammo to ballpark for the clueless. Better ammo at better prices if I did some research. If I were buying it would be in smaller quantities, probably from Sportsman's Guide along with an order for some jeans and some sausage cure.

i.e. Even better price on target practice ammo:
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/malaysian-308-762x51mm-l2a2-ball-surplus-fmj-146-grain-300-rounds?a=2157667
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/ppu-762x51mm-fmjbt-145-grain-200-rounds?a=2078135



(in reply to heavyblinker)
Profile   Post #: 708
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 8:21:35 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSinMaster

Half paying attention. I actually got my meds at 6pm would you like some?

Having them isn't enough, you're clearly not taking them. You need to take them.

Please.

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to BlackSinMaster)
Profile   Post #: 709
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 8:32:42 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSinMaster

Are you quite sure? This borders on savant like planning. So why would he fuck that one up? Actually you can probably tell me what is in a “legal” tracer round..is it phosphorus?

I watched the episode.
I don't know why he would mess that up.
Never cared what they made of so I don't know.
Are you sure he went after tracers which are only used to make sure of where
you are shooting and not incendiaries which are used to start fires.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BlackSinMaster)
Profile   Post #: 710
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 9:01:47 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSinMaster

I firmly believe he wanted the tracer rounds to ignite the jet fuel storage tank. Or do you see it another way? I myself do not.

That would make sense. However I would like to point out that Mythbusters destroyed that idea .


That and that a rifle bullet would cause a scuba tank to explode, ignite a propane tank and a few others.

However, the ammo load of a ww2 fighter included a mix of armor piercing, incendiary rounds (which are different than tracers) with every sixth round a tracer. Machine gun squads loaded a mix of ball and armor piercing with every sixth round a tracer.

The tracers were not to ignite fuel but to allow the gunner to know exactly where his rounds were going, and had a magnesium dot on the base of the round.

Incendiary rounds had a magnesium tip, so that upon impact, IF there was a flammable substance, the magnesium would ignite it. Of course, fuels such as aviation gas and gasoline are not actually flammable, it is the vapors off the fuel that burn, so the incendiary rounds actually ignited the fuel vapor in partially emptied fuel tanks.

Which is why, as WW2 progressed, the AAF, Navy and Marine air arms were scrambling to find a way to keep fuel tanks from catching fire, and by mid 1943 had discovered CO2 works great to prevent it, and by 44 US and British Aircraft were equiped with small tanks of CO2 that fed into the tanks as they emptied to keep the air to vapor ratio in the non combustible range.

During the tests they also discovered that the self sealing fuel tanks on American and British aircraft actually contributed to the problem by allowing just enough air into the tank when punctured that increased the likelihood of the tank turning into a torch.

You should keep up with history. The normal bullets and the tracer rounds were learned to have flown to completely different points of impact and it's speculated that using the tracer rounds as visual reference caused a lot of misses.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 711
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 9:03:56 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

@Nnanji
Just using quick examples of cost of ammo to ballpark for the clueless. Better ammo at better prices if I did some research. If I were buying it would be in smaller quantities, probably from Sportsman's Guide along with an order for some jeans and some sausage cure.

i.e. Even better price on target practice ammo:
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/malaysian-308-762x51mm-l2a2-ball-surplus-fmj-146-grain-300-rounds?a=2157667
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/ppu-762x51mm-fmjbt-145-grain-200-rounds?a=2078135




Dude, I told you it just between us. I understand.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 712
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 9:08:15 PM   
BlackSinMaster


Posts: 89
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline
You aside (thanks as always – and he knows fine well how I loathe guns)

This is something very different.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 713
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 9:16:29 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSinMaster

I firmly believe he wanted the tracer rounds to ignite the jet fuel storage tank. Or do you see it another way? I myself do not.

That would make sense. However I would like to point out that Mythbusters destroyed that idea .


That and that a rifle bullet would cause a scuba tank to explode, ignite a propane tank and a few others.

However, the ammo load of a ww2 fighter included a mix of armor piercing, incendiary rounds (which are different than tracers) with every sixth round a tracer. Machine gun squads loaded a mix of ball and armor piercing with every sixth round a tracer.

The tracers were not to ignite fuel but to allow the gunner to know exactly where his rounds were going, and had a magnesium dot on the base of the round.

Incendiary rounds had a magnesium tip, so that upon impact, IF there was a flammable substance, the magnesium would ignite it. Of course, fuels such as aviation gas and gasoline are not actually flammable, it is the vapors off the fuel that burn, so the incendiary rounds actually ignited the fuel vapor in partially emptied fuel tanks.

Which is why, as WW2 progressed, the AAF, Navy and Marine air arms were scrambling to find a way to keep fuel tanks from catching fire, and by mid 1943 had discovered CO2 works great to prevent it, and by 44 US and British Aircraft were equiped with small tanks of CO2 that fed into the tanks as they emptied to keep the air to vapor ratio in the non combustible range.

During the tests they also discovered that the self sealing fuel tanks on American and British aircraft actually contributed to the problem by allowing just enough air into the tank when punctured that increased the likelihood of the tank turning into a torch.

With the first post for some reason I was thinking about incendiary rounds instead of tracers.
I agree with everything you said.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 714
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 9:20:45 PM   
igor2003


Posts: 1718
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
Nnanji,

I do appreciate your offer, but I will decline. Thanks anyway. Probably a bit too "proud" for my own good, but when I have to rely on the charity of others it will be time for me to go to check into a "home". Thanks again.

_____________________________

If the women don't find you handsome they should at least find you handy. - Red Green

At my age erections are like cops...there's never one around when you need it!

Never miss a good chance to shut up. - Will Rogers


(in reply to Nnanji)
Profile   Post #: 715
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 9:23:28 PM   
Nnanji


Posts: 4552
Joined: 3/29/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: igor2003

Nnanji,

I do appreciate your offer, but I will decline. Thanks anyway. Probably a bit too "proud" for my own good, but when I have to rely on the charity of others it will be time for me to go to check into a "home". Thanks again.

As you wish sir.

(in reply to igor2003)
Profile   Post #: 716
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 10:15:32 PM   
tamaka


Posts: 5079
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

Lol, you are welcome.

So you listened when a woman explained to you about situations that make her uncomfortable.

Take a note, HB.


You're just going to ignore anything I say that doesn't fit what you want to believe, but whatever... lucky for you, you get to lecture me about how rape works and get all outraged at my 'victim-blaming', even when I clearly insisted the victim was not to blame. Enjoy the emotional charge of your outrage. I guess people can just do whatever they want and don't need to be cautious about who they get involved with, where they live/go. etc.? That is all I was saying... 'it's probably dangerous to be in such a situation' is not the same as 'bitch had it coming'... but i doubt this will ever register.

The US is definitely a scary place and I never want to live there again... which is also why people need to know about the areas they're moving into, the people they meet and interact with, etc. Surely there are areas where rapist home invasions are less likely to happen? I knew people in college who moved into cheap apartments in rough areas and were shocked when they were robbed over and over by crackheads looking for expensive shit to steal. No surprises there, but it doesn't mean they deserved it... still, there were plenty of student ghettos and ethnic areas where it probably wouldn't have happened.

Of course Nancy is going to fake compassion because that helps his pro gun narrative... but the idea that he's being genuinely sensitive is laughable... he's a pathological asshole. It's also pretty clear at this point that Americans get really upset when you suggest there are alternatives to guns... obviously those alternatives won't be as effective when guns and dogs and huge combat-trained stalkers are everywhere waiting to pounce and the police are nowhere to be found... but despite the propaganda i am still not convinced that guns are the solution... except of course in a paranoid, gun-crazy society like the US, where guns are already so commonplace you will never be able to escape the threat.

I've honestly felt safer in third world countries than in the US, but never to the point where i wished i had a gun.
I guess it's pretty offensive to admit that.

LMAO. Careful now, Tamaka may be around somewhere. Better have mumsey near if you're going to keep this BS up. LOL, poor poor little victim.


My Master went to Spain recently (after the terrorist thing) and He was showing me pictures of SWAT teams everywhere. I asked Him how it felt being there, walking through the streets of Barcelona with SWAT teams everywhere, and He said at first it was a little shocking, but then He got used to it and He felt safe walking the streets. And in the pictures, lots of people were walking the streets, even late at night. It seems like the lighting over there is a bit different then it is here in the US. It seemed a bit different in the pictures.

(in reply to Nnanji)
Profile   Post #: 717
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 10:18:11 PM   
BlackSinMaster


Posts: 89
Joined: 11/15/2012
Status: offline
He helped me out today - you should all know that – and he knows I fucking hate guns.


Oh! On semi how many shots can an above average shooter get off in 1 minute? You forgot to answer me that? And how minutes can they keepo that up for?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 718
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/6/2017 10:46:57 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wayward5oul

Lol, you are welcome.

So you listened when a woman explained to you about situations that make her uncomfortable.

Take a note, HB.


You're just going to ignore anything I say that doesn't fit what you want to believe, but whatever... lucky for you, you get to lecture me about how rape works and get all outraged at my 'victim-blaming', even when I clearly insisted the victim was not to blame. Enjoy the emotional charge of your outrage. I guess people can just do whatever they want and don't need to be cautious about who they get involved with, where they live/go. etc.? That is all I was saying... 'it's probably dangerous to be in such a situation' is not the same as 'bitch had it coming'... but i doubt this will ever register.

The US is definitely a scary place and I never want to live there again... which is also why people need to know about the areas they're moving into, the people they meet and interact with, etc. Surely there are areas where rapist home invasions are less likely to happen? I knew people in college who moved into cheap apartments in rough areas and were shocked when they were robbed over and over by crackheads looking for expensive shit to steal. No surprises there, but it doesn't mean they deserved it... still, there were plenty of student ghettos and ethnic areas where it probably wouldn't have happened.

Of course Nancy is going to fake compassion because that helps his pro gun narrative... but the idea that he's being genuinely sensitive is laughable... he's a pathological asshole. It's also pretty clear at this point that Americans get really upset when you suggest there are alternatives to guns... obviously those alternatives won't be as effective when guns and dogs and huge combat-trained stalkers are everywhere waiting to pounce and the police are nowhere to be found... but despite the propaganda i am still not convinced that guns are the solution... except of course in a paranoid, gun-crazy society like the US, where guns are already so commonplace you will never be able to escape the threat.

I've honestly felt safer in third world countries than in the US, but never to the point where i wished i had a gun.
I guess it's pretty offensive to admit that.

LMAO. Careful now, Tamaka may be around somewhere. Better have mumsey near if you're going to keep this BS up. LOL, poor poor little victim.


My Master went to Spain recently (after the terrorist thing) and He was showing me pictures of SWAT teams everywhere. I asked Him how it felt being there, walking through the streets of Barcelona with SWAT teams everywhere, and He said at first it was a little shocking, but then He got used to it and He felt safe walking the streets. And in the pictures, lots of people were walking the streets, even late at night. It seems like the lighting over there is a bit different then it is here in the US. It seemed a bit different in the pictures.


The area that was attacked is a lively, pedestrian-friendly district, populated with artsy, eclectic shops and shopping. Big tourist draw, day and night. It is well lit because of that. I've spent some time there. Wonderful environment. But it is not indicative of the rest of the city or country. That said, as a whole things are more pedestrian friendly, day and night.

(in reply to tamaka)
Profile   Post #: 719
RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/7/2017 1:01:29 AM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji
LMAO. Careful now, Tamaka may be around somewhere. Better have mumsey near if you're going to keep this BS up. LOL, poor poor little victim.


I really have a hard time accepting that you're 62 years old.
Did you experience a brain injury at some point, sort of like 'Regarding Henry'?

I mean, you do so many awesome things, it seems like there must have been some opportunities for that.

(in reply to Nnanji)
Profile   Post #: 720
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