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Lables!! - 8/1/2006 3:13:54 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

When ever I hear someone say they don't fit a lable it makes me wonder.. why are you afraid to define yourself?

This lifestyle is nothing BUT lables! And god forbid you assume someone is a domme if they are a sub and so forth. You would soon be severly corrected of your mis-assumption! LOL

(You can call me Ray, you can call me Jay..you can call me Jay Jay.. but dont' you call me RAYMOND!)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

Post #: 1

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 3:15:07 PM

zumala

Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline

The way I see it, I am what I am. Whatever lable is applied to me changes me not one whit.

zuma

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 2

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 3:24:24 PM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I do not like labels. But thats isnt because I am afraid to define what I am.

I am a sadistic submissive top - but you say that and some people look at you as if your just confused.

Or they say that none of those labels match.

But so what if they don't? Labels are too restricting. They are necessary only as a starting point. Communication is the key to unwrapping what a person is.

Ask me what I am, and most of the time I will respond. 'I am .dark.'

The rest is up to communication.

Peace and Rapture

*edit for typo

< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 8/1/2006 3:30:28 PM >

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 3

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 3:27:00 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I would say I don't fit anyones definition of a label. Primarily because of the never ending sub vs slave definitions. Everyone has different ones.
I am my doms sub. It works for us. Though most of the world views me as a dominant. Even though I could not lay a hand on anyone outside of anger.
I fit a D/s lifestyle...and BDSM. Yet I won't fit in everyones definition. I am an individual first and foremost.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 4

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 3:35:14 PM

WyrdRich

Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

When ever I hear someone say they don't fit a lable it makes me wonder.. why are you afraid to define yourself?

It isn't a matter of fear, it just takes a while to really get it sorted out. I'm IDing as Switch at this point but that is subject to change as I learn and grow.

It took me years of study and introspection to finally nail down my religious preference but I can now proudly say, I'm a Zen-Luther-Wiccan (Nordic Rite).

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 5

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 3:40:38 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Usually people aren't against the labels themselves, but how other people will pigeon hole through those labels. It's that process that people are against and feel that if we just toss aside labels then it won't happen.

Which isn't true at all of course- people will still make overgeneralizations and box people up whether you have a handy dandy one syllable label for them or not.

Not to mention, not wanting a label is a label in itself.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 6

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 3:52:15 PM

MsIncognito

Posts: 742
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Not to mention, not wanting a label is a label in itself.

I was just going to point out that people who eschew labels (for whatever reason) are labelled non-conformists so not to worry, everyone has a label that can be slapped on

I think some people eschew labels for a variety of reasons:

-arrogance (I'm so super special and unique that you can't label me!)
-fear (if I admit I'm a XYZ then people will think I'm weird)
-restriction (If I admit I'm a XYZ then people will expect me to be XYZ forever and I won't be able to change and grow)
-not wanting to be boxed in (I kinda feel XYZ-ish now but what about the times when I feel ABC-ish?)
-fear of not being take seriously (I am XYZ but everybody thinks XYZ's are indecisive and untrustworthy so why would I want to label myself that way?)

And no doubt there are plenty of other reasons as well.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 7

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 3:52:25 PM

raiken

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

While i have a submissive nature in my relationships, and an old fashioned sense in that i desire the man to be HOH, i try to stay away from labels for i feel they are limiting for me. i am still exploring...probably always will be. One day i may feel like i fit the slave label, and the next month i may feel like a kajira, or even a switch. i have a bit of everything in me, so to just narrow it down would be a bit difficult and not really a fair or accurate assessment. So while yes, it may be nice to actually find a label that fits, for me it just aint happening. i do use labels for sake of discussion and clarity though and have no problems with others who use them in this sense and who define themselves by them. It's all good.

i DO have a probelm with my states labeling system, especially when they label a child in the school system, but that is for another forum.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 8

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 4:16:01 PM

scottjk

Posts: 335
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

I'll sound off on this!

The ONLY purpose that 'labels' serve in my opinion is to ease communication in the current context. Let's take an example:

A box. Now everyone knows what a box is. However, without the label 'box', I'd be spending twenty minutes describing said object, and placing it in such a context to imply it's particular use. Now, if I just asked for 'A box to place my computer in', instantly we get a certain picture with which to discuss. If I say, 'A box to place my hat in.', we get yet another mental image with which to to discuss.

In short, labels are a tool to ease communications between people to establish the context and content of the discussion. What I've found annoying about all this discussion about labels and the lifestyle, is that it only serves to muddle, rather than clarify communication so that thoughtful, insightful or even annoying discussions can occur. In short, settle on a bloody label or definition so we can communicate effectively already. A flat refusal to use a label for this purpose is, in my mind, inherently hostile in nature, frankly, and often shuts down communications.

So, all you non-comformists out there? Get over yourselves. You're part of the problem, not the solution. :)

< Message edited by scottjk -- 8/1/2006 4:17:48 PM >

(in reply to raiken)

Post #: 9

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 4:18:11 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14442
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

Nah, I just don't fit your labels. .

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to scottjk)

Post #: 10

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 4:44:23 PM

SwtMazokst

Posts: 1
Joined: 3/23/2006
Status: offline

Yes, labels can help us communicate more clearly in some situations however, the problem I see with labeling people is that most of us have so many different aspects of our personalities that it is hard to pinpoint what labels fit in what context and once you have been "slapped with a label in some people's minds then that's it.. that's who you are even if they are only seeing one side of you.

Many "submissives" I know are very dominant in the professions and at home with their wives and kids so they prefer to submit on occasion in the bedroom (or in my dungeon) as a way of relaxing out of that "bread winner" role and enjoying the feeling of surrender for awhile. This should not earn them a label as a submissive since that does not encompass all of who they are, it is one aspect of their personality or an occasional desire they enjoy exploring.

For further example I am have been professional dominant for over 12 years and have a pretty widespread reputation as such and as a BDSM presenter and educator, I have presented for most of the major Tri state area groups (TES, DSF, Apex, LILNR, WMPE, the Society, NEDS and several more) as well as at Shibaricon and in a few other states. Many people assume because of my very public "Mistress" persona that I am definitely a Domme and that's all there is to me. Truth is, I love what I do BECAUSE I see it as a "service oriented profession" and my heart truly loves to serve in what ever way allows me to make people happiest (and it doesn't hurt that I can keep my rent paid most months). The problem of course being .. most male dominants in the scene either don't give me a second glance because they assume I am a dominant (or that I am far too experienced for them which is likely to be true) or the ones that secretly switch come on to me because they want me to top them! That's all well and good for my service provider needs and desires but sexually I crave a much stronger dominant man in my life that isn't intimidated by my work or reputation. So in this case the "label" that I have earned due to my work and my teaching works against me in the bedroom and in my private life.

Simply saying that I am a switch doesn't truly suffice either because I have no desire to dominate my primary partner sexually and most of the male switches that I meet generally end up preferring to bottom to me. Ughh! :-P So, what’s a girl to do?

Ok .. not sure there was a point I was trying to make other than .. people do not always fit into neat little boxes the way computers and hats do.

Best wishes SwtMazokst aka Suzanne SxySadist

< Message edited by SwtMazokst -- 8/1/2006 4:45:28 PM >

(in reply to scottjk)

Post #: 11

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 4:56:07 PM

sublizzie

Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline

I'm perfectly willing to label myself, it's just that not everyone defines my label the way I do. I'm a submissive. I am not a masochist. I am not going to submissively provide wanking material to every Dom who contacts me. I'm eager to provide service to someone who really "gets" all that I am, including submitting to a sadist who enjoys giving pain, but what really turns my crank is running errands, cooking dinner, and taking care of someone else.

Some labels don't seem to fit right and I haven't found one that fits me well enough to really define me in a way that someone else understands who I am from the label.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 12

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 5:06:43 PM

KindredTotem

Posts: 156
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

Labels are for cans and other products not people. Step out of the box and see the bigger picture, or in this case the whole person and accept them for the person they really are. If you label a person.. it makes people think and see just one way.

_____________________________

KT says:

Life changes a person, in their views, in their thoughts and in their action. The one thing that never changes is the persons main values.

(in reply to sublizzie)

Post #: 13

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 5:25:55 PM

BenignPlague

Posts: 52
Joined: 5/10/2005
Status: offline

I'm going to go out on a limb and put forth a sort of social commentary response. The way news, history, pop culture, and anything contemporary you can think of paint personalities, you end up with the generic form that people try to describe themselves in: the laughable stereotypes of "the black guy" "the goofy guy" "the smart guy" so have you have so consumed the tides of the general population's ideas that people not only Try to become single-faceted for clarity's sake, but inadvertently group people into neat little boxes based on one character trait.

The same people that say they are against labels will also say they're seeking "the strong, but caring guy" or "a wild guy not afraid to settle down" or some other single-sentence descriptor of the ideal mate. As hard as we try or try not to use labels, they form, the products of experience and predictability.

I could say that I don't believe in labels, or that I'm someone that can only be experienced by meeting me: but that puts me in a box like all the rest.

Be honest about yourself, if that puts you into some category with other people, no worries. Just means you have something in common with a stranger: is that really so bad?

Adam

(in reply to KindredTotem)

Post #: 14

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 5:47:16 PM

JessieMe

Posts: 510
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline

<laffin> My label.. lets see.. I used to be a switch which made me the slash in the A/a discussions.. now I am a submissive with slave tendencies..

Maybe one of these days I will actually BE something instead of being BETWEEN somethings..

_____________________________

This is who I am
And this is all I know.
That I must choose to live for all that I can give
The spark that makes the Power grow
<Immortality by Celine Dion>

(in reply to BenignPlague)

Post #: 15

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 5:54:43 PM

scottjk

Posts: 335
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline

I agree Adam,

I just don't understand what the aversion to a personal label in this lifestyle is all about. It helps others identify with you at several levels. Sure, some people seem to cop an attitude, "Oh, she's jsut a bottom, or sub, or...", whatever. Fine, if that's how people want to use those labels, then they're not ones that I'd want to associate with. The point of labels is so that you can have a frame of reference so you can relate, to understand the point of view of the one that uses a particular label.

YES, I can relate to people as people, but when we discuss this lifestyle, it helps to use a label as a frame of reference.

It's no different in my mind as using 'him' or 'her', 'his' or 'hers', or making statements like, "From a sub's point of view..." or "From a switch's point of view". Without them, it causes a lot of confusion, and frankly, pissing matches too. :)

sublizzie, I would label you as a submissive, simply because it gives me a general frame of reference to better understand where you are coming from, it DOESN'T mean that I would consider you as a masochist, though. I'm not trying to pidgeon hole you, but it gives me a frame of reference to work with in communicating with you.

SwtMazokst, I would label you as a switch, simply because you are a professional Domme and probably a private sub. That's fine, it gives me a GENERAL frame of reference. Same reason as above. Yes, I understand the issues that it brings up, but what's a guy to do?

However, I've got the intelligence to understand that being a Domme is your profession, and it fits into your submissive needs in terms of service. Since you took the time to let me get to know you, I know how to better relate to you. Again, it's important to use a label in general terms.

I'll clarify, the use of a label is a tool, and like any tool, it can be abused, as well as employed effectively. It provides a foundation towards better understanding, but it's never intended to be an absolute, like my box example. If I just said, "I need a box", it'll invoke questions. "What kind of box?"
General labels inherently require clarification, and most people understand that. The rub is when we run into people that hear the word, 'sub', 'switch', 'dom', they think they've got the tiger by the tail, close thier minds and stop listening.

Not me, and I'm pretty sure most people you run into that have some intelligence don't either. Additionally, a label is something of a courtesy to those you're relating to, you're helping them establish a foundation to work from, rather than making them fish around until they accidently find a way to relate to you, and therefore understand you.

<boy, if you read that before I edited it, I apologize, some how the editor got it messed up!>

< Message edited by scottjk -- 8/1/2006 6:01:07 PM >

(in reply to BenignPlague)

Post #: 16

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 6:02:41 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

I think I'm kinda weird in that I like and embrace labels for myself. For me, finding the right lable, and using it, is a way of saying "yes, this is a part of me, and I'm not ashamed of it."

I dunno. Labels are part of pride for me.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to scottjk)

Post #: 17

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 6:04:37 PM

TNstepsout

Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline

I don't fear labels, I just honestly don't fit any of them. I identify as a switch, but so far I make a pretty crappy sub and I have NO experience as a Dominant. So...what the hell am I? If someone asks me, what do I say? Do I simply say, "I'm a switch" and then hope s/he decides I'm still worth getting to know well enough to find out if we could be suited? Or do I say "I'm a somewhat switchy, with independent sub tendencies leaning toward finding my gentle nurturing dominant side, mostly heterosexual in a bisexual relationship poly newbie" and hope s/he decides I'm not completely insane.

Or do I just say "I'm me. Let's see if we hit it off and if we do we'll figure out how we fit together".

Labels are great for those who fit them. But many of us don't. and I'm not going to try to conform to a label simply to satisfy other people's inability to think outside of their preconcieved ideas of who and what I should be.

(in reply to JessieMe)

Post #: 18

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 6:22:37 PM

beenwhipped

Posts: 191
Joined: 5/14/2006
Status: offline

i dont particularly care for labels, but i am not going to be the guy that gets pissed when someone labels me.

I think right now that i would realy not fit any lable other than newbie. masochist, yes but then some people will take that name and assume that it means i like ALL pain, and that is not accurate.

that is probably why i dont care for labels, people have a tendancy to shove someone under a label and then define that label for themselves.

(in reply to TNstepsout)

Post #: 19

RE: Lables!! - 8/1/2006 6:25:33 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

Funny :) Those that have joined this board happily and proudly check off the boxes that apply to them. Why even bother then?

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to scottjk)

Post #: 20

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