RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!"

RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (Full Version)

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MmakeMme -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 5:47:13 PM)
The thing that chafes my hide is that all of the United States (and her citizens) is put on blame for something we cannot control, namely this war. Similarly, Muslims take the rap for all terrorism. What a bunch of crap, all of it. War is not the answer. There is no way to weed out the terrorists from innocent citizens. There ~ has ~ to be an answer. I understand the old intellectual standard of war, but it's a new era that calls for new tactics. I said it before, I'll say it again - people, no matter where they are or what religion they espouse, are just trying to get by (for the most part). We want to go to work and come home and have supper and go to bed. HOW do we take control of a seemingly uncontrollable situation? Solutions, please!! (Finger-pointing and diarrhea-mouths are not solutions, only obstacles.)

Dauric -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 5:50:32 PM)
Muslim Vs. Terrorist: I agree that people need to make the distinction between these two things. On the other hand, Muslims in the Middle east have failed to do anything to excise the cancer in their midst. In many cases the Islamic organizations in the middle east have encouraged acts of intolerance and violence. I've had this rant before, with a muslim from the pacific rim. He wasa great guy, and I said we should gang up and replace a few Imams with him and a few other people he referenced in his posts. He replied that being an alchoholic he was "too sinful" to be an Imam. My reply: "Somehow being an alchoholic just doesn't stack up to inciting people to commit mass murder on my scale of things sinful, but then again that may be my own silly paganist view." Israel: I have to agree with the posters who say remove our support. Not only for the fact that they don't -need- it, but also for the fact that Israel has been abusing the whole "self defense" argument. When they are attempting to kill one or two terrorists in an apartment block rather than use their own special forces* to perform a surgical strike/assasination of the offending individuals, they fire rockets from an attack helicopter in to the entire apartment complex. And they wonder why arabs hate them... *The Mossad which is one of the most feared covert ops organizations in the world. And I have to agree with CatNMouse2002, Fundamental Christianity should be next. But that's just my own $0.02 Dauric.

missturbation -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 5:50:57 PM)
The thing that chafes my hide is that all of the United States (and her citizens) is put on blame for something we cannot control, namely this war. Now funnily enough we would not have been involved in this god damn war but George Bush brought us into it. I do blame the U.S.A (not its citizens). Your a big grown up country learn to fight your own battles and leave us out of it.

Dauric -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 6:22:33 PM)
ahh the wonders of differing points of view. missturbation, in the U.S. we consider the citizens to be "The Country" and the leadership to be "The Administration." Our leadership is temporary, our countrry goes on. As far as drawing the U.K in to it, Mr. Blair should have had enough brains to think for himself, or perhaps he really does think that stirring up shit in the Middle East is the right thing to do. Either way that paticular piece of fault lies with him. The wonders of both our democracies is that when elections come along we get to choose between morons. Looking up the thread, MmakeMme: I completely agree that war is no the way to address terrorism. It just creates too many casualties and drives a wedge between both sides. If we are the "Western Devil" then let's act like it. Mr. Satan gets souls by tempting people with luxuries and power, not by smacking them silly unless they convert (that's God's job). We should be building them modern power, and water infrastructures, supplying them with big-screen color TV's and X-Box 360's for all. Computers, Networks, snack-foods and Internet first-person-shooters (hey, they're gonna do it anyway, might as well keep 'em online instead of IRL.) "The Arabs keep asking when are the American's going to leave, I got news for you... ... you better get used to saying 'Super Size'." -- Carlos Mencia "Not for the easily offended" $0.02 Dauric.

Level -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 6:42:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation The thing that chafes my hide is that all of the United States (and her citizens) is put on blame for something we cannot control, namely this war. Now funnily enough we would not have been involved in this god damn war but George Bush brought us into it. I do blame the U.S.A (not its citizens). Your a big grown up country learn to fight your own battles and leave us out of it. misst, GW is not your Prime Minister; no one "made" Blair support the war [sm=crop.gif].... and good to see you [:D]

servantforuse -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 6:51:03 PM)
Islamic extremists and terrorists were attacking this Country long before Goerge Bush was elected. Remember to Cobalt towers in Lebonon ? The bombing of our ship in the Gulf ? The First World Trade Center bombing ? These events happened when Bill Clinton was our President. We are where we are now because he did absolutely nothing to end these attacks against our Country.

missturbation -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 6:59:43 PM)
As far as drawing the U.K in to it, Mr. Blair should have had enough brains to think for himself, or perhaps he really does think that stirring up shit in the Middle East is the right thing to do. Either way that paticular piece of fault Unfortunately america thinks the uk owes them a big fucking debt and lets face it without american support wed struggle. So we actually become involved because we r bullied into it. As for stirring up shit that george bushes department aint it? misst, GW is not your Prime Minister; no one "made" Blair support the war [sm=crop.gif].... and good to see you [:D] As above Good to see u too though.

Arpig -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 7:09:02 PM)
quote: The Crusades? Oh dear God!!!! Do you have any idea what you are talking about?? The Crusades were an attempt by christians to drive out the invading moslems...in other words the moslems invaded christian lands (Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, Egypt, Libya, Tunis, Algeria, Morocco, France, Russia, Italy & Spain) and the christians fought back, defeating the invaders in Northern France (Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours in early October of 732 - don't recall the date) and began a centuries long process of liberating the conquered lands (the Spanish "Reconquista"). When the Seljuk Turks defeated the Byzantines at Manzikert in 1071 they overran the near east, conquering much of modern syria and turkey, This prompted the Emperor to call for aid from the Christian west, which had driven the moslems out centuries before (you may not that the spanish took very little part in the crusades, as they had one right at home). The result was the crusades, the whole am of the crusading movement was to regain the "Holy Land" for christians, the Moslems having conquered around 640. This was not what the Emperor Alexius I had intended, he was hoping for trained volunteers to help him reconquer Anatolia & Antioch. So much for the crusades being justification for anything, not only are they very old news, you also clearly have very little idea what they were actually about, hopefull my little histroy lesson will help you a bit. Now I return you to your regularly scheduled thread

Dauric -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 7:09:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse Islamic extremists and terrorists were attacking this Country long before Goerge Bush was elected. Remember to Cobalt towers in Lebonon ? The bombing of our ship in the Gulf ? The First World Trade Center bombing ? These events happened when Bill Clinton was our President. We are where we are now because he did absolutely nothing to end these attacks against our Country. Play that game, let's go back to 1945 and the establishment of modern Israel. The middle east has been a problem... since forever really. No way that any one president will be able to solve it. Oil and holy sites are both scarce rsources in the middle east that everyone else in the world wants a piece of. For my part I want my electric car, and I'm perfectly willing to let someone else have Jerusalem is they want it (of course I'm not christian, jewish or muslim....) There is no easy solution, there's a lot of ways to make things worse (Like invading middle east countries.) and there -might- be a solution that really works for everyone, but there might not. The middle east has been a place of warring tribes for all of history, and even Islam was spread on the edge of a scimitar. Our own entaglements in the region as a country stretches back to the mid-industrial revolution. Oh, yeah, don't forget that the Clinton administration left intelligence memos to the Bush II administration about Al Queda, and Bush II brushed the memos aside as "liberal overseas involvement." $0.02, Dauric.

MmakeMme -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 7:27:59 PM)
The scale isn't excatly unimaginable. Concentration camps spring to mind. But "Mass murder on an unimaginable scale" sells more news than "This ain't quite Auschwitz, but hey ..."

MmakeMme -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 7:32:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation Now funnily enough we would not have been involved in this god damn war but George Bush brought us into it. I do blame the U.S.A (not its citizens). Your a big grown up country learn to fight your own battles and leave us out of it. I misspoke, please pardon. The United States is blamed for many of the ills of modern society, and who is the United States? Her citizens. The US is a country, but no one blame the mountains or the plains or the rivers - that would be silly. The citizens are taken to task. The anti-US sentiment is aimed at citizens. "You Americans" this and "You Americans" that. Leave me out of it. I just want to work and come home and find some happiness in between.

missturbation -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 7:37:44 PM)
Oh jeeze i dont personally blame you. Is it not obvious i blame ur government or whatever the hell you have over there. Such a powerful country and yet it still needs its hand holding.

mnottertail -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 7:39:10 PM)
I realy don't give the glimmer of a fuck, how many assholes die in the world to save it, innocents included. I am not the arbiter of the world and am not my brothers keeper, I don't wanna provoke some kind of intellectual debate about 'The Way it Aughtta Be' from some fat stupid fuck and deserter like Rush limbaugh or anybody in the current administration, and fuck Clinton but at least he had the guts to say he was a fucking deserter......... For the rest of you, have you ever killed someone? You ever seen the flourescent spray of brains being blown out close up? Ever got any on you? What in the world is worth the long and hard death of a human if it dont change anything? Oh, it buys us 20 years of being able to fuck off.... Here is the real deal, unless you have put yourself in harms way, or unless you stood against it...... IB help me out, or JW, you know what I am saying, it takes a pair of balls.There are other veterans here.............. the rest are reeds shaken by the wind, of no consequence whatsoever. Ron Melby (and I sign my name to that in blood)

EnglishDomNW -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 7:48:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level misst, GW is not your Prime Minister; no one "made" Blair support the war There's a true statement if ever there was one. We need to stop blaming the U.S. for Blair's decision making, I can't imagine Bush spanked him into it. (LOL, and I apologise to everyone who may now have that image burned onto their retinas)

missturbation -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 7:53:01 PM)
I'm gonna disagree with you there blair is so scared of getting offside with the mighty usa hed send his own family to peace keep. Normally i wudnt have the balls to disagree with you but this is something i strongly believe in.

EnglishDomNW -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 8:09:02 PM)
You might have a point Miss, since the Blair/Bush relationship is almost as cosy as Reagan/Thatcher. The trouble with British politicians these days is you can't tell them apart. They're so career motivated, none of them have any passion for their policies. We should have known something was up the moment Blair won the endorsement of The Sun. Whatever people think about Gorgeous George Galloway, Tebbit, Livingstone etc, at least you know where they stand. You'd never guess that Bush and Blair are supposedly from opposite political wings.

angelic -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 8:10:13 PM)
~fast reply~ First off.. not to sound corny... i am proud to be an American! i am NOT proud that the citizens of this great country have allowed Mr. Bush to remain in office (never mind even PUTTING him there)... when it all comes down to it... Mr. Bush is our leader through our vote... It's the end of the day... and i am just as scared..right now... as i was this morning when news came out. ~angelic~

missturbation -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 8:11:51 PM)
Phew thought i was gonna get the wrath of Domnw then lol. I dont understand politics very well ill be honest but i do understand that people are dying out there for a war that isnt our fight.

Chaingang -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/10/2006 11:22:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angelic It's the end of the day... and i am just as scared..right now... as i was this morning when news came out. DO NOT BE AFRAID. We just need a more coherent and tenable foreign policy than that imagined by the likes of Mr. Bush and his kind. The Neocons have lost the day by revealing that the other side of their moral fervor was just greed - pure and simple. The only thing that can possibly stop us now is the fear of people who would rather maintain the status quo than to risk the dawning of a new era in international politics. There is hope. But it requires substantive change - towing the status quo, middle of the road politics will not do!

Kedikat -> RE: "Mass Murder on an Un-Imaginable Scale!" (8/11/2006 12:12:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Estring quote: ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus quote: ORIGINAL: Estring quote: ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus quote: ORIGINAL: Estring quote: ORIGINAL: captiveplatypus Our governments are begging for retaliation. We started this a long time ago. When exactly did we start this? The creation of Israel? The Crusades? Regime changes? So of all the countries in the world, Israel is the only one who doesn't have the right to exist? And we did regime change in Japan and Germany too, I don't see them blowing up any airplanes. And I may be wrong, but I don't think The US was around during The Crusades. I know it was not (The US) but this is also directed at England as well. Japan and Germany were allies in a war on a large scale already that attacked on our soil. Yes Osama and his men attacked us, I am not disputing the war in Afghanistan after 9/11. I think the US and UK have stuck their noses in so many places they didn't belong at this point that there is no way any of this will end now without WWIII. To bad we didn't go after the country that actually has and was making nukes, and now they have them, and firing off test rounds. Yay! I asked this of another poster here, and didn't get much of an answer. If this is all a retaliation because of the US and Britain's actions, why did terrorists infiltrate Canada? Canada isn't fighting anyone, and have not sided with the US and Britain over Iraq. Why would they be targeted by these Islamic fanatics? My guess would be, because they are a Western society and easily infiltrated because of their adcceptance of everyone. I guess those are good reasons to be attacked. Asshole! I answered that. But so you don't pull off a scam as if I did not. Canada was supposedly targeted after we joined in cleaning up the mess the US left in Afghanistan. The US was in too much of a hurry to invade Iraq, to bother doing a legitimate thing in Afghanistan. The fact that extremists might live in or use a country as a base or simply their home, does not mean it is a target either. You keep spouting the same one or two sentances of the same theme. Poor innocent always wonderful US. Why should anyone want to hurt us? Read some f'n history already ya twit. Before tirades of invasions, deportations, wars and weapons to solve it. How about short sighted, narrow minded, know nothings like you find out the obvious reasons these folks hate a whole bunch of the western world. And although they are often Muslim, and often extremists. The things they request or scream about are mostly, patriotism for their country, asking to be left alone in their country, ending the sellout of their resources land etc...asking to have their governments not overthrown from outside. Hardly ever is there a terrorist who dies and kills to take over another country or religion. They use terrorist tactics because their countries have been used for so long they don't have weapons that can work in a battle against those that are fucking them over. They have a reason to hate and kill!!! There are ways to end it. First way....quit fucking them over!!! Then they will quit trying to do it to us. There will always be crackpots with bombs, but these so called terrorists have real reasons to be murderously angry.

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