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The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 4:52:54 PM   
masterzone


Posts: 3
Joined: 1/8/2004
Status: offline 		Right off the bat I am going to upset some of you but this is how I feel. The gift of submission is garbage. Giving your submission and domination is a selfish act. Before you have a knee jerk reaction please read the whole thing. I have been told by a lot of subs that giving them selves over to me is a gift. Really, then me being a Dom over them should be a gift as well. The fact is that its not, I do this to please my self, yes I care about them and about there needs but it’s about what I want. (I am talking as a Dom not as a master or owner) The thing is that both as a sub and a Dom, having been on both sides, if what I am doing does not please me then why am I doing it, yes when I was a slave I was there to please my mistress, if she was happy then I was happy. I want the same things from my girls and never think they are doing this as a gift. If they are then they are not doing it for the right reasons. If they are not getting anything out of there time with me then really they need to be with someone else. I would love to know what others think.

Be well and safe
Master Michael L. Hook
A Brother in The Circle: A Los Angeles leather family
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 5:00:55 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I never thought it was a gift...

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


(in reply to masterzone)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 5:09:53 PM   
indigo302


Posts: 127
Joined: 4/28/2004
From: Delaware
Status: offline 		My thoughts:

Submission is not a gift. 

It is who I am - a part of who I am.  Just as I am a woman, a mother, a daughter, etc - I am a submissive. 

I don't see the gift in there...unless it is a gift I give myself, by allowing myself to act on that part of me.

*shrugs*  It just is.

indigo


(in reply to masterzone)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 5:11:49 PM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		Sticks a big red bow on my head and stands under a neon sign:
>>>>Git yer gifty right here!<<<
LOL

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to masterzone)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 5:12:55 PM   
cr0ckdile


Posts: 63
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		masterzone,

I'd go beyond that, and say that love is selfish, to satisfy our needs and desires.  If you "sacrifice" something for a loved one, it isn't really a sacrifice, because your love for him/her is a higher value than that which was "sacrificed."  By extention, submissives don't actually sacrifice their needs because their psychological/biological drive to please is of greater value than their own immediate fulfillment.

< Message edited by cr0ckdile -- 8/16/2006 5:14:00 PM >

(in reply to cuddleheart50)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 5:30:45 PM   
NastyDaddy


Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		Literally you are on the mark for Topping bottoms in play/scenes... but there is a distinction between 'gift' and 'use'. In your stated context the 'gift' is only being loaned to you temporarily... just as you are in the play/scene only temporarily yourself in order to get what you want from it.

The 'gift' is has more to do with a 24/7 environment to facilitate, manage and control the 'gift' on a more permanent basis.  If you are given the 'gift' as opposed to 'temporarily using', perhaps it would clearly define itself to you better.

Until you own a sub/slave I don't understand how you can justifiably Top a soap box and generalize so one-dimensionaly... but then again your rationale may not be to educate, since you've already stated your intentions..... in Topping the soap box, it may be that your temporary loanable 'use' resources wane and the feedback from non-play/scene bottoms has you generalizing in frustration of your needs lacking?

I see it more as an apples and oranges scenario... but in the same token, who says you can't make orange twanged applesauce?

What the gift really is will naturally depend on the people in the relationship who are defining it wouldn't you say... or do you think one-size-fits-all, it's all just simply binary, or a black or white concept?

Welcome to the message board.





(in reply to masterzone)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 5:33:51 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterzone

Right off the bat I am going to upset some of you but this is how I feel. The gift of submission is garbage. Giving your submission and domination is a selfish act. Before you have a knee jerk reaction please read the whole thing. I have been told by a lot of subs that giving them selves over to me is a gift. Really, then me being a Dom over them should be a gift as well. The fact is that its not, I do this to please my self, yes I care about them and about there needs but it’s about what I want. (I am talking as a Dom not as a master or owner) The thing is that both as a sub and a Dom, having been on both sides, if what I am doing does not please me then why am I doing it, yes when I was a slave I was there to please my mistress, if she was happy then I was happy. I want the same things from my girls and never think they are doing this as a gift. If they are then they are not doing it for the right reasons. If they are not getting anything out of there time with me then really they need to be with someone else. I would love to know what others think.

Be well and safe
Master Michael L. Hook
A Brother in The Circle: A Los Angeles leather family


Welcome to the club.  I've never thought of submission as any more of a gift than my dominance.  But then, as valuable as I think I am...and I have a healthy self-esteem...I've never been conceited enough to think of myself as any kind of a gift to anyone.  I tend to look at other people the same way, no matter how much I love them.  A gift always implies a certain amount of indebtedness on the part of the recipient to the giver...and often thought of in that way by the giver, even though the definition of gift is fairly clear in stating that anything given to another as a gift is only a gift if NOTHING is expected in return.  Since people do expect things from their partner...sometimes rightfully, sometimes not...then choosing to be with someone is choosing to be with someone, it is not giving them the "gift" of yourself or any part of your character.

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Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 5:53:07 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I do not think it matters what others think, probably most will agree with you, but some will not, including myself.. we all have our own view of life, love, submission, and dominance.. it really only matters that we are happy with ourselves and secure with our own views

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to masterzone)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 6:02:49 PM   
KindredTotem


Posts: 156
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not think it matters what others think, probably most will agree with you, but some will not, including myself.. we all have our own view of life, love, submission, and dominance.. it really only matters that we are happy with ourselves and secure with our own views


Very well put julia. This lifestyle is a lot of what you and your partner makes of it.

_____________________________

KT says:

Life changes a person, in their views, in their thoughts and in their action. The one thing that never changes is the persons main values.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 6:11:46 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Hmmm, that could be answered in a number of different ways.

(in reply to masterzone)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 6:22:49 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Where is LA with the 1001 line list of the other times this has come up?

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 6:25:53 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		What's next?  Please let it be one of my favorites.  Pubic shaving tips.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 6:45:03 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		The gift is not in submission or Dominance..the gift is when you find the mate that you have been seeking, your other half, the mate that has you feel like you have finally come home....Tempting

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 6:46:20 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

The gift is not in submission or Dominance..the gift is when you find the mate that you have been seeking, your other half, the mate that has you feel like you have finally come home....Tempting


I agree, which is also why I think life itself is a gift, but then again I could be wrong

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 6:47:41 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

Where is LA with the 1001 line list of the other times this has come up?

LA was at the gym, then the pool, then the hot tub, then getting dinner, then shopping for next weeeks dinners and NOW is happy to hand out all prior CM references to this topic.

Oh and I'm thinking it's been awhile since we had a good thread on "limits and their meaning"

http://www.collarchat.com/m_417971/mpage_2/key_gift/tm.htm#418195
submission is a gift!!!???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_285542/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#285542
If submission is a 'gift.' what's dominance?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_199872/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#199872
The Gift you give to yourself

http://www.collarchat.com/m_195087/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#195087
A gift???

http://www.collarchat.com/m_137582/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#137582
The Domly Gift

http://www.collarchat.com/m_135667/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#135667
Why do so many view submission as a gift?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_128811/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#128811
Do you consider your submission to someone a gift?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_118674/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#118674
Gift or not...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_109097/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#109097
The "gift" of submission

http://www.collarchat.com/m_26446/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#26446
On the gift of submission

http://www.collarchat.com/m_17487/mpage_1/key_gift%252Csubmission/tm.htm#17487
my thoughts on the "gift" of submission


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 6:50:26 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterzone

The gift of submission is garbage.



Dammit!  And I already had it in my gift registry!  You know what it will take to edit that thing? 

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to masterzone)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 8:11:56 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I don't think of submission as a gift it is just how a person is, just as I am Dominant. I think the word *gift* is used to romantize the idea because frankly, alot of women like that kinda stuff. Frankly I don't care for the flowery language, just give me the straight facts.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to gooddogbenji)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 8:36:59 PM   
GddssBella


Posts: 343
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline 		G'evening all:


To the OP; welcome to the boards, and it's about time! Considering you've been a member since 2004 and this is your first post. *chuckling* Enjoy the bumpy ride.

As to the topic, the idea of "gift" negates the aspect of power exchange, so I have to side with you Michael. It's a flowery, romantic phrase some folks like to toss around to make their participation seem more valid or whatever. Piffle. I believe each party gets something worthwhile out of the venture, or else why do it? For a gift to truly be meaningful, the giver can't expect any compensation of any sort. Not even gratitude.

I define it most accurately as article 2 of this link. http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/gift


Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...





Bella

_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!"

(in reply to masterzone)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 8:44:44 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		I give my submission willingly just as He gives his dominance willingly.  Would have to be a mutual gift or oh i don't know maybe just consential interaction. 

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to Lashra)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: The gift of submission. - 8/16/2006 8:46:31 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Thanks for posting that link to the definition... it is always good to read the actual definition of words when applying them.

For those that think that all relationships and life itself is a gift it does not change an opinion

2 : something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation
 
I do not expect compensation for my submission.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/16/2006 8:50:32 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to GddssBella)
Profile   Post #: 20
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