RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (Full Version)

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yourMissTress -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/18/2006 2:11:43 PM)

I wrote a long and lengthy reply to this thread yesterday but it timed out and was lost.  So, here's the condensed version:
 
As a recovering addict I insist that My submissive not drink alcohol or use drugs in my presence, when she will soon be in my presence, or when she's on her bike.  Whether or not she drinks or uses when I'm not around is up to her.  This is a rule for my own safety and well being.  I am often around people who are drinking, but I don't want to and won't kiss anyone who's been drinking and I don't want to have to refrain from kissing her whenever I feel like it.  Again, it's for my safety and well being, there is no person on earth for whom I would risk a relapse.
 
My sub is a vegetarian and has been for 20+years.  It started for health reasons and slowly became a very meaningful way of life for her.  When we met I was still quite happy to take full advantage of my ancestors having beaten and clubbed their way to the top of the food chain.  I love steak, extremely rare please.  But when we began living together and I was cooking all the meals, I didn't cook any meat, I didn't want to make 2 meals and I was happy to accomodate her vegetarianism.  I began only eating meat when we ate out.  As time went on I noticed some health issues that I was experiencing only after eating meat.  It took not eating it to realize what it was doing to my body and I stopped altogether.  I now eat seafood on only rare occasions and no red meat, pork or poultry. 
 
I'm lucky to have found a partner with whom I'm quite well aligned on religious, spiritual, emotional and interest levels.  I would never ever ask her to eat meat, even before I joined her in her vegetarian ways.  I wouldn't ask her to alter or change her core beliefs for me even if we differed.  I would and have asked her not to engage in something that could be harmful to me. 
 
I guess I've been long winded again only to say that there would have to be a very good reason for me to demand that someone change something so drastic.  And no, ego isn't a good reason.



Nikolette -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/18/2006 3:32:05 PM)

LaTigresse,

It is a shame that someone who would critque you for eating an animal would WEAR an animal, or likewise participate in what they were trying to pin on you. I personally avoid buying all animal products. (although as a personal side note I tend to have a somewhat native american philosophy in making use of the entire animal if one does take its life... and thus I might wear second hand animal products from a thrift store) I think, even if she avoided all animal products completely the best policy is respect. But many of us (people, I am meaning, not just vegetarians) are self appointed judges of the world, we judge people by lifestyle, weight, race, religion, politics, manners... on and on. I can honestly say that my life seemed more like vacation when I decided it wasn't really my JOB to judge people. I'm a huge work in progress, and its always challenging learning how to be a Domme, and protect myself and not judge people all at the same time, but I find it to be worth it.

And true enough, a lot of progress has been made in the meat industry on some points, and not much in other areas, and there is always room for more. With any group of people there will be a mixture of bad apples with the good. Farmers definitely aren't excluded in that group. Ultimately at the end of the day I believe its most important to look back and say "Did I live in a way that reflects my sense of integrity and self respect, in a way that is respectful of others and leaves me satisfied?" If someone can answer yes, I believe that is at the root of a better place for everyone. I truly believe that there is much good in all people and that life is all about viewpoint and perspective.



LaTigresse -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/18/2006 3:36:42 PM)

I agree with you 100%.



mnottertail -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/18/2006 3:39:46 PM)

Crapster, my bets is it has more to do with being your ex, than any ingurgetation of matter.



WhipTheHip -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/18/2006 10:13:32 PM)

> It is a shame that someone who would critque you for eating an animal would WEAR an animal,

I see nothing wrong with vegetarians wearing leather shoes.  The purpose of being a vegetarian
is to lessen animal pain and suffering, and to lessen the number of animals killed for human
pleasure.  "Perfect" or "better" should not be the enemy of "good."  Don't let people convince
you to do less because perfection is not at hand.  Every step in the right direction is better
than every step in the wrong direction.   The fewer primates and mammals killed for our
pleasure the better.  It is better to kill one cow, than five cows.  



juliaoceania -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/18/2006 10:27:24 PM)

You can buy free range birds and beef that are not grown with hormones. I buy organic whenever possible.. again it is not the meat, it is what they have done to it that is the problem.



juliaoceania -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/18/2006 10:40:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

There have been studies done that talk of screaming wheat fields when they tortured with a scythe.


Oh, the humanity!!!!

Ron 


I know this was meant to be humorous, but for me on a spiritual level there is some merit to the words. All life has innate value, from the virus to we human beings. All things must eat something to survive. Plants eat decaying matter and obtain the energy to use it from the sun, bacteria invade cells, cute fuzzy mammals eat plants, carnivores eat cute little mammals. It is the way of the world, and it always has been. I do not see wheat as having anymore intrinsic value than I do on a spiritual level. I will say that I have the will and the desire to survive as every organism does, but that does not make me intrinsically of more value. Of course I go through life assigning values to different life forms, but when I contemplate it a plant has no more value than a bear, a bear no more value than a fish. We must eat something to survive.

I respect those who are vegetarians and who believe eating the way they do is healthier and superior both morally and physically. I do not agree from what I have learned about nutrition and the evolutionary history of our species. I also believe that everything makes a living, and eating a cute furry animal is no more repugnant than eating corn on the cob. Both have the essense of life, both sustain it. It is as though we have made ourselves arbiters of what life is more valuable, when all of the life on this planet has a function.

That is just my view



MistressLorelei -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/18/2006 10:53:43 PM)

To the OP,

I have mixed feelings on the 'forced vegetarianism' thing....  I don't think it's wrong to encourage a submissive to participate in a healthy lifestyle alongside his Domme... walking, working out, eating healthy food, and eliminating junk food.... and it seems reasonable that vegetarianism could fit right along with those things.  But, on the other hand, a strict meatless diet to someone who has eaten meat his whole life, could be very overwhelming, and such a a diet isn't healthy for everyone,

I haven't eaten red meat or pork for 15 years or so, and this year, I stopped eating poultry as well.  I have never demanded that the partner in my life give up red meat, though it sickens me to see or smell it, but it was never cooked as 'our meals' when we ate together.   I have been asked by males if I would expect them to give up meat...  and have thought about this question quite a few times.  I think it would depend on the individual.  I would take steps and see if vegetarianism might be something he would be able to do, and little by little, perhaps he would enjoy sharing this part of my life with me.   On the other hand if he voiced concern over not being able to eat meat, I would work out a plan so he would be satisfied.

Not eating meat isn't for everyone, and forcing another to do it could lead to resentment towards the Domme, or it could lead to lies.... his wanting to please his Domme, but physically not being able to give meat up completely.  I would suggest a lot of communication, and small steps.... and most of all compromise. 

Every male I have ever gone out with (except one- Bastard, lol), has gone out of his way to not cook the meats in my presence that I don't eat, nor have they wanted to order it while we dined out.  Most ended up rarely eating meat after getting out of the habit... and they did it by choice.

I try to think of it reverse... IF, I were a submissive, how would I feel if the Dominant insisted I eat meat to please him.  He would be finding himself another submissive.



troch -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/18/2006 11:16:30 PM)

Miss Tress,  You should reward your sub with a lunch or dinner out at one of the 2 vegetarian restaurants in Nashville.  Grins at Vandy and Woodlands Indian on West End  near 440.
I stopped eating red meat after a pennicillin allergy in 1988.   #1 use of Pennicillin is to mass dump into cattle feed.  FYI and totally unrealted to BDSM. 



skinnykitten -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/19/2006 12:32:12 AM)

Coming a little late to the thread, but I thought I'd throw my thoughts in from the other side of the coin. 

My partner is omni; I'm vegetarian.  Up to this point, he has accommodated my preference, to a large extent adopting it for himself.  Were he to suddenly morph into a voracious carnivore, I'd deal.  We'd make arrangements to minimise the ick factor for me.  Join him though?  Not a chance. 

For me, it comes down to whether I consider the request as being one that potentially will infringe upon something intrinsic to myself, something necessary for my self respect.  If it does - no dice; if it doesn't - well, we're open for negotiation.  

It might be relevant to ask your sub if he has any ideological / political / philosophical / religious reasons for the refusal?  Or is it simply a lifestyle or enjoyment thing?  If it is the latter, I would not consider a request or demand for such a change to be unreasonable, especially if it has not been stated as an express limit.

- kit



sharainks -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/19/2006 4:52:38 AM)

What your MissTress said spoke to my thoughts on the issue.  I'm not a totally hardcore vegetarian.  Every once in awhile I will eat meat and the resulting stomach cramps and nausea remind me again of why I don't make that choice very often. 

Its amazing what your body will tell you if you listen to it.  If you go weeks without meat or dairy and suddenly eat it your body reacts to it like it is a poison.  My take on it with all the chemicals introduced to livestock feed is that this is probably accurate.  I do know that I spent a year and a half totally vegan and felt 15 years younger and my digestive system never threw fits. 

One thing that has surprised me on this thread is the reaction of some of the dominants.  I wonder if a female sub did some of what the doms said they would do what their reaction would be to that show of outright defiance. 

On the flip side I can understand that people's dietary preferances are important to them and that food issues strike a survival chord in many people.  If it was me in the dominant position I think I would probably tell the submissive that any meat consumed would be outside the home, lunches, out with their friends, etc. 



WhipTheHip -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (8/19/2006 4:57:06 AM)

Good for you skinnykitten!!!  Asking a vegatarian sub to become a meat eater
would be like asking a sub hurt an animal.   Any sub who would hurt an
animal just because her master said so, is in trouble.  We are each
responsible for our own moral compass!!!!  You can't stop taking
responsibility for your moral choices!
 



enigmaslave -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (12/7/2006 6:27:45 PM)

i can hope my future Domme would like to control of that aspect of my life.

further more:
i have heard that the longer you are a vegetarian, the more emzines (sp?) that are used to digest meat are lost.

Making it a permanent lifestyle modification, which i think is erotic.



michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (12/7/2006 6:35:29 PM)

quote:

Subs/slaves: How would you react and feel about your Owner expecting you to join them in vegetarianism?


i would respect their choice, but would humbly have to return their collar, since i seldom eat veggies and would end up starving to death sue to the very limits choices in food.



justheather -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (12/7/2006 6:51:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

quote:

Subs/slaves: How would you react and feel about your Owner expecting you to join them in vegetarianism?


i would respect their choice, but would humbly have to return their collar, since i seldom eat veggies and would end up starving to death sue to the very limits choices in food.



Michael, I think the whole point would be that in submitting to that person, you would be changing the things you do eat. Not starving for lack of what you used to eat.

I was a vegetarian when I met my dom. He noted some nutritional issues with what I was eating, coupled with some symptoms I was experiencing and he presented me with a diet that included fish oils. I submitted and changed the way I ate. After a short while, I decided that if I was going to eat fish oils, I might as well just eat fish. My dom has told me to eat or not eat certain foods in the past. I like giving up that sort of control, in general, even though sometimes in the moment it can be a challenge.

But, at the end of the day, I like a challenge.

I would gladly follow a vegetarian diet if my Dom indicated it was his preference*. Of course, I have embraced that way of eating in the past. It would be much harder for me to submit to someone insisting I eat at McDonalds than it would be to submit to healthy changes like vegetarianism.


*Not bloody likely, though.



michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (12/7/2006 6:56:07 PM)

there are very very few veggies i eat and i only eat them on rare occaisions, so my food supply would be greatly limited, since i don't really care for veggies all that much.



asubmissiveheart -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (12/7/2006 7:02:21 PM)

I would be willing to try vegetarianism, if that was what my Mistress wanted.



justheather -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (12/9/2006 5:19:20 AM)

Michael: So, basically you are saying that you wouldnt be willing to even eat something different for your One True Perfect Mistress for whom you have searched for over ten years.
This might offer a clue as to why she hasn't been found.



michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (12/9/2006 5:28:12 AM)

as with everyone else, we all make choices to do or not do, there are just some things that cannot be changed



justheather -> RE: Forced Vegetarianism??? (12/9/2006 5:35:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

as with everyone else, we all make choices to do or not do, there are just some things that cannot be changed



That is quite true, Michael.
I have always been an adventurous eater, even as a toddler. I guess some people are just not wired for culinary adventure.



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