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Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with them. - 8/21/2006 6:46:51 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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This is a discussion forum. Differing opinions and viewpoints are the very thing that make it work. I love to see all of the different perspectives....and sometimes they will even cause me to re-examine how I personally feel on a topic or issue. Discussion is awesome. But there is a point where a discussion turns into an argument....and then there is a point where an argument turns into an argument that seems solely for the sake of argument.

We all have things that we feel strongly about. For and against. Sometimes, the more spirited the discussion, the more the reader can get a feel for how strongly the poster feels about certain issues. I myself, have had times where I have probably become known for standing up strongly on issues concerning abuse or issues of substance abuse.

At what point though, do you say to yourself, this is futile....I have stated how I feel in 10 different ways and I am at the point of beating a dead horse? Or what about posters who want to fight to the death on EVERY issue? Are the rules different for Doms and subs? If you are a Dom, do you expect that if the opposing poster is sub that they will concede in the end? If you are an owned sub is there a point at which your Dom tells you to back off? Does that Dom feel like if you continue past the point of discussion into an argument that it reflects badly on him? Do you as a sub feel like it could? If you find yourself involved in an argument....can you objectively see your own behavior in it? Is there a point at which cheap shots, nit picking and insults become justified for you?

I find human interaction interesting. I have been as guilty of taking things too far as the next at times. Sometimes we DO get caught up. I know that there are times when even as I post, I fight a little voice that tells me to just let it go. Do others have this voice....do they see when they have wandered past the point of futility?

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 8/21/2006 6:52:04 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

Post #: 1

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:02:30 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

I generally apply myself to the 3 round rule. If after three rounds directly with someone, we haven't brought any new ideas to light, or there continues to be no real meeting of understanding, I walk away.

This is frustrating sometimes with someone who wants to walk away after just one or two rounds :)

And I don't think it is or SHOULD have anything to do with someone's orientation. Discussing and making solid arguments is a necessary skill to enjoy yourself in an online forum, and there's no reason someone's relationship orientation should have any change on that- by the person OR by how the person is received. I know this isn't the reality- people on boards hide behind their orientations constantly.

The fun part is that so few people on internet discussion boards become regular posters for more than a few months, that the people you discuss with in the long term tend to be the ones you actually like the most because you've come to respect them, understand their views, and spent so much time on the same focus.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 2

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:03:54 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

At what point though, do you say to yourself, this is futile....I have stated how I feel in 10 different ways and I am at the point of beating a dead horse? Or what about posters who want to fight to the death on EVERY issue? Are the rules different for Doms and subs? If you are a Dom, do you expect that if the opposing poster is sub that they will concede in the end? If you are an owned sub is there a point at which your Dom tells you to back off? Does that Dom feel like if you continue past the point of discussion into an argument that it reflects badly on him? Do you as a sub feel like it could? If you find yourself involved in an argument....can you objectively see your own behavior in it? Is there a point at which cheap shots, nit picking and insults become justified for you?

I have frequented sites where the above takes place and it is truly mind numbing the energy people will invest to belittle another or prove their authority or reason on a given subject. I find myself wondering what is being neglected in their nonvirtual lives or really questioning who refuses to hear their voice. I believe it is simply a matter of choice. I can't fathom devoting my free moments to bicker on a computer with strangers. It rings loudly in my head that something is amiss.

Do topics get heated on occasion? Most definitely. We are all passionate about the things we love and participate in. However, I don't require a message board monitor that taps me on the shoulder and says cool it. As an intelligent adult I am capable of conducting myself with decorum on and offline. Surely these same people don't engage in shouting matches in the workplace or other environments? Well, let's hope they do not.

I see no purpose in nitpicking someone who can disappear from my screen and life with the click of a mouse. It takes a very arrogant person to believe their words are going to have that large of an impact on someone. We choose the influence and affect others will have on us. It doesn't matter whether the individual is a dominant or submissive. Their demeanor and loss of control merely highlight why they are someone else's problem and not mine.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 3

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:04:12 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I figure people should debate as long as they want... smoking thread is a prime example... many of us there have been posting for weeks...smiles. Some have even gotten personal on that thread! I think that people should debate until they do not want to, and if someone thinks it is futile they can always skip the discussions. I am guilty as charged, I have tended to take on lost causes more times than I care to admit, but like I have said before, Aries tend to do this.. A lot.

People should be who they are as long as they do not call names and make it about the person instead of the thread, it really doesn't matter to me. Who am I to judge what other people feel is important to debate about?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 4

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:08:59 AM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

Stating an opinion is just that - saying what you think. As often as needed.

Beating someone to death with it is different. I tend to write what I think down, staple it to a 2x4, and swing at the nearest target.

Generally, after I do that, not many people argue anymore.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 5

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:11:16 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Stating an opinion is just that - saying what you think. As often as needed.

Beating someone to death with it is different. I tend to write what I think down, staple it to a 2x4, and swing at the nearest target.

Generally, after I do that, not many people argue anymore.

Yours,

benji

Benji, that is what I have been doing wrong, I have been using a word instead of using wood... I need to replace that "R" with an extra "O" and then I would always win every debate! Wow, thanks for showing me what I was doing wrong!

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 8/21/2006 7:17:59 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 6

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:13:27 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

Good Morning Erin! I just had to put my perspective on this particular subject. I feel that all too often I see the threads of which you speak. Personally I find them rediculous and avoid them like the plague. I may make one or two initial posts when it begins, if it is not a subject that has just been beat to death, resurected and beat again..........and again........and again........kinda like the "fat chicks" subject, "smoking" orrrrrrr any other issue that you will find strong emotions that do not necessarily make alot of sense. In my opinion, the ones doing the arguing tend to be the two most extreme polar ends of opinion on that particular subject. Usually because of their own personal issues.......example: a fat chick with self esteem problems or someone with alot of negative feelings about such, a heavy smoker or a disgustingly impassioned ex-smoker like myself!

I think those threads are completely worthless, negative, nobody wins. All they accomplish after a certain point is over working the Mods and pissing a bunch of people off. Everyone drags out facts, links, personal strife, excuses..........yada yada yada. More worthless DRAMA!
There are always gonna be people that think they know everything about any given subject. Always gonna be people that think the have the "one true way". Always gonna be fat people and skinny people and everything in-between. Always gonna be people that have a preference. Always gonna be stinky smokers

. Always gonna be arrogant ex-smokers (like me) and "I have NEVER smoked" that don't want any part of the stinky smoke from the smokers. Always gonna be people that are vanilla and those that are rocky road. I just say "viva la differance" (however the hell that is spelled) cuz wouldn't it be boring as hell if we were all the same. As long as we treat one another with RESPECT for those differences life should be pretty damned good. Unfortunately too many people are afraid of differences rather than embracing them. And then you have some that just need to argue for the sake of arguing........sometimes its fun to play with em but mostly they just get boring and I ignore them.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 8/21/2006 7:16:13 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 7

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:28:59 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

This is a discussion forum. Differing opinions and viewpoints are the very thing that make it work. I love to see all of the different perspectives....and sometimes they will even cause me to re-examine how I personally feel on a topic or issue. Discussion is awesome. But there is a point where a discussion turns into an argument....and then there is a point where an argument turns into an argument that seems solely for the sake of argument.

We all have things that we feel strongly about. For and against. Sometimes, the more spirited the discussion, the more the reader can get a feel for how strongly the poster feels about certain issues. I myself, have had times where I have probably become known for standing up strongly on issues concerning abuse or issues of substance abuse.

At what point though, do you say to yourself, this is futile....I have stated how I feel in 10 different ways and I am at the point of beating a dead horse? Or what about posters who want to fight to the death on EVERY issue? Are the rules different for Doms and subs? If you are a Dom, do you expect that if the opposing poster is sub that they will concede in the end? If you are an owned sub is there a point at which your Dom tells you to back off? Does that Dom feel like if you continue past the point of discussion into an argument that it reflects badly on him? Do you as a sub feel like it could? If you find yourself involved in an argument....can you objectively see your own behavior in it? Is there a point at which cheap shots, nit picking and insults become justified for you?

I find human interaction interesting. I have been as guilty of taking things too far as the next at times. Sometimes we DO get caught up. I know that there are times when even as I post, I fight a little voice that tells me to just let it go. Do others have this voice....do they see when they have wandered past the point of futility?

I enjoy the interplay of differing opinions and those in agreement. If someone posts something that everyone disagrees with, it can be interesting to read all the different ways that others agree but it can get to be a dog-pile situation when you see some of the same statements being made just so you can add on.

While it sometimes makes me scratch my head to read an opinion that agrees with something that...to me (and that's an important point to remember to; the "to me" part)...seems so wrong, on the other hand it does make it more interesting, if the agreement is well-thought out, to be able to counter it.

I try not to go more than 3 or 4 posts on a subject and I studiously avoid name-calling or insults. Don't always succeed with the first but I have to give myself a pat on the back with the second.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 8

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:31:18 AM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Benji, that is what I have been doing wrong, I have been using a word instead of using wood... I need to replace that "R" with an extra "O" and then I would always win every debate! Wow, thanks for showing me what I was doing wrong!

Until someone replaces your "D" with and "F." Swinging a dog at someone is not only cruel, you also may look a tad crazy. You may win the argument, but ranting about that in the loony bin will only make them give you stronger meds.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 9

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:32:43 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

I love a good discussion erin, geez... we have had a few.

But there is a difference between a discussion and just arguing to get ones point across. There is a thread going at the moment that shows that quite clearly on this very board. I am not sure if that also prompted you to observe this OP?

I know I have often discussed and debated with yourself and I would happily continue for rounds and rounds... because I have gained a certain knowledge about you. I know you have your ideas and stick to your guns. I also know that you are open to other people views - and to me that is the key distinction. If I really do not know a person or poster, then a continuous 'I think- you think ' debate is irrelevant... because I really do not know if they are interested in my views. I do not do name calling - and I don't enjoy the 'you must think like this because its what the community says is the way'... but a good debate with a intelligent person even though we don't agree? If its a polite exchange of ideas - I will indulge forever...

quote:

The fun part is that so few people on internet discussion boards become regular posters for more than a few months, that the people you discuss with in the long term tend to be the ones you actually like the most because you've come to respect them, understand their views, and spent so much time on the same focus.

Agreed Em - not much else to add to that.

quote:

We choose the influence and affect others will have on us. It doesn't matter whether the individual is a dominant or submissive. Their demeanor and loss of control merely highlight why they are someone else's problem and not mine.

You are correct porcelaine. Something I have noticed is that the dominant personalities do like to have the last word however... and I am not just speaking dominant dominants... submissives and switches can be the same. (I know for myself I am not blameless on that account). It is the personality that counts more than the actual orientation. I do love your expression on being someone elses problem.

quote:

People should be who they are as long as they do not call names and make it about the person instead of the thread, it really doesn't matter to me. Who am I to judge what other people feel is important to debate about?

And people should also heed their own advice. But many never do.

Peace and Rapture

< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 8/21/2006 7:50:37 AM >

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 10

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:44:16 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

I usually say what I have to say and then I don't bother anymore. I figure I make my opinions known and people can agree or disagree with them if they wish, I'm not going to change my way of thinking.

I have noticed that quite a few feel they have the *duty* to change others opinions. Most of them are Dom/me and for some reason they feel that ALL subs/slaves have to bow down to them. I was under the impression that a sub/slave only bowed down to their Owner, unless the Owner instructed otherwise.

Then you have the Know-it-all's who think they know it all but quite frankly, they don't. They are just kidding themselves and I tend to skip their posts as they are quite boring.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 11

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:49:11 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Usually the people who complain that someone is "beating a dead horse" are people who aren't involved in the conversation on the thread, but just peek in long enough to lob their unsolicited opinions about how other people are conducting themselves. If a discussion continues, that means at least two people are interested in it; even if it baffles or mystifies the onlookers, I consider it rude and stupid to interfere.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 12

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:58:27 AM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Usually the people who complain that someone is "beating a dead horse" are people who aren't involved in the conversation on the thread, but just peek in long enough to lob their unsolicited opinions about how other people are conducting themselves. If a discussion continues, that means at least two people are interested in it; even if it baffles or mystifies the onlookers, I consider it rude and stupid to interfere.

But sometimes it takes a third party to step in and tell both parties to shut up. Take, for example, the threads in the last few days where 2 people were, shall we say, "discussing their various, real life merits." I think most people jumped in at some point and told them to shut up, in varying degrees of diplomacy. Yes, two people were (probably in their own minds) discussing an issue, but to the rest of the world it was rehashing the same thing over and over, without any new contributions, and becoming more and more desperate for new posts.

What I am getting at is not people's rights to discuss, argue, or beat, it's that sometimes it is a very futile discussion, but the ones embroiled in it can't see that.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 13

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 7:58:38 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows

I love a good discussion erin, geez... we have had a few.
I know I have often discussed and debated with yourself and I would happily continue for rounds and rounds... because I have gained a certain knoweldge about you. I know you have your ideas and stick to your guns. I also know that you are open to other people views - and to me that is the key distinction.

Ah dark....yes, you and I have had a few. Thank you for the kind words. I enjoy discussing things with you...even if at times we just end up having to agree to disagree. As LA said....there is a respect that develops between long time posters. I think that it is because we aren't just debating them on a one time post....we get to see a glimpse of the bigger picture of who they are. While we may not agree with each other on some things, we respect who we have come to know as the whole of that individual.

I'm not a perfect being, nor am I above any of the behaviors that I mentioned in my post. Lord knows, I have taken things farther than they should have gone a time or two myself.

I sit and watch my dogs sometimes with their bones Dark. They will chew and chew and chew. They will chew until their is blood dripping from their gums and still they keep on chewing. They want that bone so bad they keep at it even though they are hurting themself. When I sink to those levels I KNOW that my gums are bleeding. If I lash out and insult someone or discuss beyond the point of discussion....I KNOW that I am doing it. And I KNOW how it makes me look. I KNOW when I am being catty. I do it because at the time...well, quite simply...because I want to.

What I have noticed though, is that sometimes people seem oblivious to their own behavior. Sometimes people will carry on and on to the point of their own gums bleeding and yet they don't seem to notice. Or if it is pointed out to them they will give that innocent "Who me?". I find myself wondering how they fail to see the obvious.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 14

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 8:28:55 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
And I don't think it is or SHOULD have anything to do with someone's orientation. Discussing and making solid arguments is a necessary skill to enjoy yourself in an online forum, and there's no reason someone's relationship orientation should have any change on that- by the person OR by how the person is received. I know this isn't the reality- people on boards hide behind their orientations constantly.

I agree...orientation shouldn't have any bearing. I think though, that for some it does.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 15

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 8:40:55 AM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

Yeah, there is a time to back away from board arguments. By backing away, you display your own good sense and calm personality to the readers. There are a couple of different types I back away from when they are obsessed. The obvious ones who will make it personal on a childish level, plus there occasionally is a more educated poster who will write ad nausea on a subject that is cut and dried to most of us.

This skilled poster may dissect other posts and twist and weave his/her views and turn the most ordinary subject into an inappropriate philosophical argument until a few will even start to agree. It is hilarious at times. Against a poster who has the fixation to write elaborately and often to push the most asinine view, I will back away after I have made my points once or twice. I like to think I have more important things to do.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 16

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 8:44:24 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I am time to time accused of pedantic histronics, but yeah.........the dogged sgt. rock slogging thru the killing fields of tirades of purity gets tiring to even such as me.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 17

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 8:54:26 AM

FirmhandKY

Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline

I think that many people have certain issues where they are simply "non-rational". When you trip across such a point from another poster, all of their thinking abilities become focused on on something where I'm not really sure what the hell the real issue is.

Sometimes they read something written, and take something completely different from the intent away from what was written, or they did not read for meaning - they simply see words on the page, and certain ideas or words trip their "running at the mouth" instinct.

Generally, I try to avoid such posters and arguments on this forum, although occasionally I'll admit to a certain ... shall we say - enjoyment? - in tickling a blind spot.

I've also noticed certain things about the bandwagon effect on this forum.

For example, there are certain subjects and posters who have decided that they have seen all there is to ever be posted or written about a particular subject, who then automatically, and in a knee-jerk manner attempt to quash discussions about those subjects.

I've seen "dom/mes" who are so caught up in their "dommliness" that they can't quit arguing their point .. to the point that they no longer have a point.

I've seen "subs" use that occasional occurrence to tar any "dom/me" that disagrees with them as being such an individual. (what I call the big bad dom dissemble)

I've seen men and women (regardless of reported orientation) who couldn't connect two logical thoughts together ... but will post for days on whatever gets their motor running.

What bothers me is that there are also many, many intelligent, thoughtful posters who get "lost" in the circus that the above individuals seem to enjoy causing. The bad drives out the good.

I have, on occasion, let my "white knight" impulses loose when I see a poster getting unfairly pummelled, although rarely on CollarMe (more often, on other forums I belong to). But most often then, I have no serious expectations of "convincing" someone, or changing their behavior of view. What I do, and intend, is to pummel them right back and pound their heads into the ground in an attempt to simply teach a lesson in humility. It doesn't always work, but it can be loads of fun, if I have the time.

Consider it crass and crude, but sometimes it's the only available method to give a breathing room for others to actually carry on a worthwhile conversation.

FHky

edited for grammar and spelling

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 8/21/2006 8:59:13 AM >

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 18

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 9:05:08 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
What I do, and intend, is to pummel them right back and pound their heads into the ground in an attempt to simply teach a lesson in humility. It doesn't always work, but it can be loads of fun, if I have the time.

Consider it crass and crude, but sometimes it's the only available method to give a breathing room for others to actually carry on a worthwhile conversation.

I guess I too have done my fair share of pummeling. One of my particular favorites is when a poster comes out and adamantly states how opposed they are to or how wrong they believe a certain behavior is.....that they just themselves exhibited on another thread. The opportunity to point out the obvious is sometimes more than I can restrain myself from. Ahhhh....I guess I'll never reach perfect...lol.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 19

RE: Stating opinions vs. beating someone to death with ... - 8/21/2006 9:19:36 AM

KenDckey

Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline

What upsets me is people stating their opinion as pure fact. This would be OK if they could prove it, but when asked for proof, they come back with more unsubstantuated facts. why not say, as I try to do, this is my opinion or in my opinion or something like that? I see this mostly in Republican bashing, gun bashing, and isreal bashing. I really could care what side you are on, and am glad to recieve anyone's opinion, but when they state what they claim to be facts they need to be able to substantiate them, from a reliable source (not someone elses opinion - lol).

I love a good political debate - I was in a club where I was the only republican and the other members favorite fun was to make me defend the democratic point of view which I did quite eloquently. But I always make it clear the difference between opinion and fact which I could substantiate from reputable sources. Oh and I don't necessarily consider the media a reputable source and I base this opinion on the way the Military provided information to them about troop movements in gulf 1 and events that I have personally witnessed that were really tilted toward one side or the other.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 20

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