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RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 11:53:21 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Then I think your profile needs to state that your true age isn't 34.  Maybe you can explain why you don't feel comfortable stating your true age.  And is the person in that picture really you?  If it is, you're not 22 and you're not 102.  If it's not, you need to inform the CM staff and have them take the picture down.

After all, ordinary users are likely to be duped into thinking that you really are 34 and can't possibly have discovered the Many Worlds Theory.  We wouldn't want people making such horribly incorrect inferences now, would we...


Someone 34 could have rediscovered Many Worlds.  Hopefully, not everyone
believes everything they read, and continuously makes as many false
assumptions as you make. 
 
I think you should do a lot of things, but out of civilty I choose not to say what they are.
This may come as a big shock to you, but I really don't care what you think.  By
the way, which creature in that picture is really you, the one on the top or the one
on the bottom?  You really need to lose some weight.  If it's not you, you need to go
outside and find a track and run around it naked ten times, then you need to turn
yourself in to jump off a long dock.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 12:39:51 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		You might not care what I think, but plenty of CM users will be interested to know that you lied about your age on your profile.  What else have you lied about?

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 8/24/2006 12:41:06 PM >

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 12:59:34 PM   
Kedicat


Posts: 251
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline 		Yep

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 4:35:38 PM   
NorthernSwitch11


Posts: 19
Joined: 6/18/2006
From: Newcastle, UK
Status: offline 		how can anyone claim any of this to be fact, there are theories about time travel, so many its hard to keep count.  I dont think anyone has the proof or evidence to call anyone a liar, or to claim their answer is right because they are smarter than the next guy.  Fact is even the worlds best scientists are divided on the subject and who's to say any of them are correct.  The only time anyone can claim this crown is the guy who actually manages time travel, until then everyones opinion is just their own pet theory no matter how many degrees you have, or how many publications you've read on the subject.  As Mr spock said so famously to Mr Mccoy about is reincarnation, it would be impossible to discuss the subject without a common form of reference, in other words how can you discuss and understand reincarnation unless you have actually died and come back, translated again into this subject how can you claim to know the ins and outs of time travel without doing it or knowing anyone who has. 

(in reply to Kedicat)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 4:42:15 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		ladies, gentlemen and anyone else


i shall now travel through time

wait a sec


there......done it.....want to see me do it again?

(in reply to NorthernSwitch11)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 4:44:13 PM   
NorthernSwitch11


Posts: 19
Joined: 6/18/2006
From: Newcastle, UK
Status: offline 		lol

In case of any missunderstanding i will elaborate, im not saying because nobody has accomplished it the matter cant be discussed, what i am saying is how can anyone claim they know for sure, evidence points in a direction but is not absolute

< Message edited by NorthernSwitch11 -- 8/24/2006 4:49:34 PM >

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 4:47:46 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The pairing of quarks spin has proved that time travel exists in some form, or there is a violation of speed of light as we know it. By what mechanism we cannot yet explain with certainty.  We know the quantum foam exists, we have seen it. There are no vacuums but those you use in your house.Nautura Abhorum Vacuuomo (Lam or Bob fix that up for me, please) is as true today as in ancient roman times, again.

Interestingly enough, within this week I read a small article buried on the inside pages of some minor current events paper, I believe it to be the Fargo Forum; that has stated that humans may have sighted concrete evidence of dark matter, which would bring it to the forefront of the realm of the ponderable universe.  Seems a neutron star collision aftermath (best I recollect) was being very obviously pulled to a dark imponderable region. 

There was another article nearby that discussed  the possibility of  finding  a missing bosun or some such  routine  shit, when compared to  a hook into dark matter  (which is most of the universe) that  I  cannot remember the gizmo.

To sleep, to dream..............

Ron





< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/24/2006 4:49:16 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to NorthernSwitch11)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 4:55:00 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		The problem with time travel surely has to do with the problem of bi-location of particles in space? For instance, my body as it is right now, consists of particles which have been brought together from all over the place to form it - before they were part of my body, they were located elsewhere - in the food/drink I consumed, in the air that I breathed, and ultimately in my mother's and father's body. If I were to time travel back to 1968, then the particles forming my body would necessarily have to resume the locations they occupied in 1968 - otherwise, the same particles would exist twice in 1968; once in my body and once in the natural environment as it was in 1968. If I travelled back to 1966, before my mother was even pregnant with me, then I would have to totally disintegrate as all the particles in my body would to resume their 1966 locations - rendering me incapable of operating the time machine to return to the present. Incidentally it would also mean that the time machine itself would disintegrate for the same reasons. It may just be that the above is proven incorrect because it is not for certain what a particle is, however it just seems to me that unless we live in a universe where whatever we are made from is able to exist independently at every moment in time in multiple ways (ie a particle could exist at one and the same time in a potato, in my body, in your body and within the core of a star for example), that the above problem must prevent time travel.

This also applies if one concedes that there is no past or future, only a continuous present that always is. Even in the continuous present, a particle has to be in one place and not everywhere all at once.

In any case, there is no such thing as time anyway - its a delusion we experience as a result of our selfs perceiving separation from the All, and those selfs then observing the cosmic motion and perceiving time. The cosmos and the All exist in no-time.
E


(in reply to Dauric)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 5:06:13 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, what a great writer.  Again, if we are to believe all things we know or have some certainty of...the statement still holds: 'Time as we understand it does not flow from present to past.'

Can you re-construct your argument (so eloquent that I almost came) again and only go forward?  (Remembering there is no coming BACK to to present.)

Gawd, I love a beautiful mind.

Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 5:27:15 PM   
Bearlee


Posts: 2311
Joined: 10/25/2004
From: South Central CO
Status: offline 		 
But... a time machine? 
 
Time doesn't exist...all just IS; such travel should be as easy as shifting thought from apples to...oranges?
 
bear

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 6:02:25 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Hi Mnotter

Not sure if your post was in reply to mine - the bit about "great writer" and "eloquent" confused me, but it seemed to be to me. I'm not sure if I understood what you meant though - if you meant how would it work on forward time travel, then obviously it would have to work in a similar way, in that I (as I am right now, if one concedes that now exists), would have to become the person I am in say 2015, were I to travel forward to 2015, since many of the particles in my body now will have different locations in 2015, and in 2015 my body will be made up of some particles which right now are elsewhere. In this way, it would not be "I" that arrived in 2015, but the person I will be in 2015 anyway. This could really ruin my day, if I had died in 2010 and the particles making up my body had been cremated and were now drifting about the atmosphere or had long since settled back on the surface of the earth.

Incidentally, the only way to time travel is in my last post and is also hinted at in one of your posts. However, one does not so much travel in time as attain the true state of no-time to do this. Its all to do with leaving behind the delusion of time through adjusting one's perspective. Once in no-time, all "time" is one moment and all matter is All. Mystic or what?

Just to add to the controversy, this scheme of things also allows rebirth at any point in time, so that when one dies in 2010, one is not necessarily reborn after that date, but can be reborn at any point in time. Equally, our lives now may be rebirths from the 22nd century.

Its all in the runes.
E

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 6:14:44 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, by the one-eyed god, I was talking to you and another wonderful post......this is exactly the conceptual problem with time travel, how to stay intact else there is no value for it.  Of course one need only to take a nose-dive in a black hole and one can hold time for infinite measure.  Again its necessary association with gravity (or acceleration of frame of reference) is inheirent in the scenario at this point and looks unresolvable.  I think it was Poul Anderson that wrote a book on a tangent to this, how this being had to overcome inertia and gravity to pull his atoms together to do something....wish I could find that book again.


It is said that every breath you take contains 12 molcules of George Washington or Julius Caesar depending on the illustrator......entropy laws at work, for sure.

Ron   

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 7:02:30 PM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen The problem with time travel surely has to do with the problem of bi-location of particles in space? For instance, my body as it is right now, consists of particles which have been brought together from all over the place to form it - before they were part of my body, they were located elsewhere - in the food/drink I consumed, in the air that I breathed, and ultimately in my mother's and father's body. If I were to time travel back to 1968, then the particles forming my body would necessarily have to resume the locations they occupied in 1968 - otherwise, the same particles would exist twice in 1968; once in my body and once in the natural environment as it was in 1968. If I travelled back to 1966, before my mother was even pregnant with me, then I would have to totally disintegrate as all the particles in my body would to resume their 1966 locations - rendering me incapable of operating the time machine to return to the present. Incidentally it would also mean that the time machine itself would disintegrate for the same reasons. It may just be that the above is proven incorrect because it is not for certain what a particle is, however it just seems to me that unless we live in a universe where whatever we are made from is able to exist independently at every moment in time in multiple ways (ie a particle could exist at one and the same time in a potato, in my body, in your body and within the core of a star for example), that the above problem must prevent time travel.

This also applies if one concedes that there is no past or future, only a continuous present that always is. Even in the continuous present, a particle has to be in one place and not everywhere all at once.

In any case, there is no such thing as time anyway - its a delusion we experience as a result of our selfs perceiving separation from the All, and those selfs then observing the cosmic motion and perceiving time. The cosmos and the All exist in no-time.
E


Pretty Good!

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 7:07:19 PM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee
But... a time machine?   Time doesn't exist...all just IS;


I think you are right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  This is what
Stephen Hawking says.  Not that my opinion matters, but
I really think you hit the nail on the head.  The only thing
that moves is our consciousness.  As our consciousness
moves though space-time, our perspective changes, and
this creates the illusion of motion.

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 7:09:46 PM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
ladies, gentlemen and anyone else
i shall now travel through time
wait a sec
there......done it.....want to see me do it again?


It is easy to travel into the future.  The hard thing to do is to not travel through time while staying alive.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 7:17:05 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Something on this order is eminently agreeable......Time as measured in clocks is certainly gallalean time.  but the sine function we see every day, night, day...seasons the regular movement of celestial bodies.....periodic yes, we grasp that but tell the common slob on the street, time is a figment of imagination in your existance and is only good for your big bang and your big crunch, other than that, it is like the color green, can't give you absolute and concrete definitions, but a couple examples and you catch on.

In relativistic terms, and you can see this at newton/gallelio  speed, a retiree of many years does not hold the same concept of that thing we call time as you or I who is still fighting it out here in this type of space.......we up down work and live by the concept..........they are nearly free to be as the animals who only casually observe these space-time events.......time is elongated for them......the old hot stove/pretty woman theory.

Regards,
Ron


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to WhipTheHip)
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RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 7:28:12 PM   
anthrosub


Posts: 843
Joined: 6/2/2004
Status: offline 		Time has always fascinated me.  I studied the affect of approaching the speed of light on time when I took physics in college.  Another thing that affects time that most are not aware of is gravity.  This has been demonstrated conclusively by NASA using atomic clocks.
 
Two clocks were synchronized.  One was left at the airport and the other was loaded on a plane that then flew at high altitude for a number of hours.  When the two clocks were compared after the flight, the clock on the plane was slightly behind the one on the ground.  The experiment was repeated several times to verify including swapping the two clocks so each would take the flight.
 
This experiment was inspired when it was discovered that clocks on the upper floors of skyscrapers constantly need to be set forward periodically because they run slower than those near the ground.  Switching the clocks proves this as they still run slower the higher up they are.
 
There are many other fascinating experiments that demonstrate how movement also effects time.  I'm sure mass has a lot to do with it.  But there's another kind of time that I believe most people are also not aware of...psychological time, better known as memory.
 
I've stated this in other threads.  Our thoughts are time in the sense that they are of the past.  Everything you think (think as opposed to experience) has already happened if even a split second ago.  You see something or hear something, your mind interprets it and a thought is formed.  By then, it's already happened.  Your identity is also memory based so who you are is also in the past always.

When you think about yourself, you are thinking from memory.  The same holds true when you tell someone else who you are if they ask you.  Only direct experience with the absence of thought is the present but you have to learn how to develop a quiet mind to experience it.  This is what Zen is all about.  Zen is not a religion like most people think...it's a state of mind, a quality of being.
 
So, here you have a quick synopsis taking the subject of time and following a path to what it is to experience being alive.
 
anthrosub

< Message edited by anthrosub -- 8/24/2006 7:31:36 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 7:50:18 PM   
StrongButKind


Posts: 136
Joined: 10/15/2004
Status: offline 		You're all morons. Time travel is simple, but I don't have time to explain it now. I'll tell you about it yesterday. Until then...

(in reply to anthrosub)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/24/2006 11:44:38 PM   
ULive2MakeMeCum


Posts: 14
Joined: 5/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluebird

Did anyone ever read (as a youth) the novel "A Wrinkle in Time"? That book always stuck with me - a very simple and logical (to a 10-yr old) explanation of the space-time continuum.  Probably out of print now, but may be in your local library.


Yes that book is quite fantastic. I read it all in a single day during 4th grade because I couldn't put it down.

Time does exist it has been proven, and more so then the the ticking if a clock. there are a number of particles that have very, very short half-lifes on the order of thousandths of a second and less that fermi lab has been able to extend the lives of (by our observations) by speeding them them up close to the speed of light. Now still that means their lives change from thousandths of a second to a few full seconds when observed at our terrestrial slow reference frames, but if I had the chance to extend my life by a few thousand times over I think I would take it. really time has slowed down for the particle and it still would perceive its life to be the same length if it were capable like a person. similar to falling into a black hole.

All time travel paradoxes can be sort of shuffled aside with the "many worlds" theory that SavageFaerie mentioned as parallel universes, but that hasn't been proven. It does have quite a bit of evidence though look up the dual slit experiment something I tried a few years back soon after I got a lasser pointer (remember those? I hated the jerks that would shine them in my eyes.). With very sophisticated equipment it is possible to restrict the flow of photons down to one at a time, but they still exhibit an interference pattern which could only be explained by either the particle interfering with other versions of it self in parallel universes in almost the exact location, or by a dark matter cousin of the photon that hasn't been discovered.

On a much lighter note in the futurama episode "Roswell That Ends Well" fry went back in time and actually became his own grandfather or as he said it "I did do the nasty in the pasty". So how could futurama have put the idea in your head that time didn't exist? :)

(in reply to Bluebird)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/25/2006 12:01:08 AM   
ULive2MakeMeCum


Posts: 14
Joined: 5/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

The big question is if time exists like a spatial dimension.   The only thing we observe is the present.
The question arises does the past still exist, or is it gone forever.   And does the future exist to
someone in the present.  Apparantly not.


I believe that time does exist as a spatial dimension. Einstein thought so. Our current working model says that everything is going the speed of light all the time, but that speed is split up between 4 dimensions. that faster you go in the 3 dimensions you can see the slower you must be moving through time. That's why there are so many time travel theories that entail going faster then the speed of light (and I mean the speed of light in a vacuum like space) in our 3 dimensions for then you must be going backward in time or so they say. Now Doc brown was a far ways off with 88 miles per hour. The newest string theories state that there are no less then 13 dimensions (up from their previous count of 12) although I'm not clear enough on those theories to know wheather or not they are supposed to be spatial.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 100
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