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RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/26/2006 6:44:12 AM   
WhipTheHip


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Hawking that is.......sometimes that guy can put some really pretty pictures in your head, and sometimes his arguments are totally above anything I could ever hope to understand

Having been privileged to once attend a lecture given by Hawking i could not agree with you more; i had to buy his book to try and grasp some of his theories but at other points you can easily visualize what he is describing.
Who knows maybe in our life time we will uncover the truth behind his theories; after all a hundred years ago space travel was only a dream.


Actually, Hawking's arguments are always ultra clear.   There are many subjects Hawking' discusses that I 
can't understand but that is always because the subject matter is above me.  On the other hand, Hawking's
logic is always clear.  I don't find this to be true for many of his peers.

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Profile   Post #: 141
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/26/2006 6:50:37 AM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
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From: Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedicat

Of course this exact measure of time is only relative to the gravity field you are in, and the velocity you are travelling to relation to all the rest of the things in the universe. And even this measure of time is defined by physical events. The time itself is not measurable as a thing that exists unto itself. It is defined by the interval of somewhat regular events in a specific state.

Close to what I was thinking Kedicat. Time is an observation, not necessarily something tangible, how you measure it is determined by the observer. As to whether it can be manipulated or dare say, controlled? I have a bit of difficulty buying into theories of controlling something that you can't contain. Perhaps we should concentrate on capturing and stopping time, before we decide whether we can travel through it. Just a thought..seems hard to experiment on a moving target.

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Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
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(in reply to Kedicat)
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RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/26/2006 7:35:25 PM   
mnottertail


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Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Read the link by Hawking on black holes, given by ULive, it puts the lie to that view, in essence, but comes to the same conclusion, with the standard disclaimer of it is a little more complex than that.

Ron 

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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/26/2006 8:03:41 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		This is the crux of many of the problems......We use a cartesian coordinate system for time measurement to describe some periodic thing or event in reality and it works kinda well for some stuff but it is more Minkowski like.......it varies depending on conditions in the locality and frame of reference where we are the center of the universe, yours being a different center than mine,  so we move to Galellio (I can never spell that assholes name right, why couldn't Rutherford have discovered the shit Big G Daddt did?)  however we can only (as the common slob on the street)  see everyday examples with no end to it, and when we find the end, we are not quick, but dead.  So we accept the approximation as the equality........

Now, earlier I talked about and ULive gave a link to galaxies crashing and the seeming proof of dark matter, I wish I had a site that calculated when they crashed..........this information came to us recently; but galaxy time, and I hope it wasn't andromeda and us (otherwise quick goodbyes and I love you all) Tycho Brahe wouldn't have been alive yet.  Nor perhaps would have anyone that we consider human for sure, not even the skull in Oldovi Gourge...............

What truely does exist..........along side that post there was a  measurement thingie link......dealing now with a planck measurement, so we are closing in on the realm of Heisenberg uncertainty, but it is as sure as you and I will die, that for anyone, anywhere, here or in another dimension or world or anything............it is uncertain.

But God, what stuff dreams are made of........kinda makes you fell kinda cheap to be out here looking for a blowjob, don't it?  (It don't me......LOL)


Ron

my apologies to Max Planck.


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 8/26/2006 8:09:48 PM >

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/26/2006 10:46:29 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		I cannot believe this. They have muddied up the subject so well I had a hard time recogniing it.

Time.

People are talking about anti-matter and all this shit when it has nothing to do with it. Contrary to popular belief (except Whipthehip maybe) the speed of light has nothing to do with time. The concept that in any way space is changed because of what YOU are doing ( i.e. traveling at C ), is not only humanocentric, it borders on egocentric.

It is a ridiculous concept and if Einstein started it he was surely senile.

Time.

When the clock on my wall ticks, it is nothing but a motor or whatever, a mechanical device. That is all, but operating unattended and counting hours, minutes, day, glogs, whatever, it indeed measures time. Now if I have a 2 by 4 I need to measure I of course need my measuring device, but I also need the 2 by 4.

The only way this proves time exists is in the fact that it has indeed measured something, just what is it ? The clock has been hanging there on my wall, in near perfect geosynchronicity for months. It has not moved relative to other matter. As TIME goes on it just runs and runs.

Fact is, once set in motion, it moves until the batteries die. Fact is it produces no work except to display the results of it's existence and purpose to humans on a circular vernier which is used to synchronize their actions to actions of others, as well as events. For example to get up and go to work.

Many have digital clocks now, but the inner workings of the time measuring device are not important. What matters is that it works. If time did not exist there would be no passage of time. When the sun is directly overhead, humans call it noon. There is a noon each day. The day is defined as the TIME is takes the world to go round. If time did not pass, what do you think would happen ?

In other words, if anything moves, time must therefore exist. It was there when ? It was there when ? Did it move relatively to other bodies in the universe ? If so, when was it where ?

Therefore time is a significant and real factor in this universe, especially since we are corporeal beings. All you immortals can speak up, but it's not going to do any good. Even if you fought in the crusades and now sit on the board of Ford motor company, time has still passed for you. Things have changed, how ? By the passage of time.

The life cycles of our own bodies prove that time exists, we can see the growth, and then the waning of an individual. While this does not provide actual accurate units, such as hours and minutes, it still does provide something. It proves that there is a beginning, and that there is an end.

IMO, this, in and of itself, proves the existence of time, but nothing else. Absolutely nothing else. Humans tend to see things subjectively, and I firmly believe that is why some think that velocity has something to do with time. Take my word for it, the speed of light doesn't mean shit.

There are objects in space moving toward us emitting light and we see is as ultraviolet, that light is moving faster than the c in relation to us. Otherwise the Doppler effect would not be possible. Don't give me any shit about the train whistle, we are not talking sound, and there is no atmosphere.

In acoustics I know there is a compression, in fluid dynamics I know what a shock can do. This is space, and some believe there is some sort of "atmosphere", but I need to discard that for now. We just don't know enough.

I can also accept that the present does not exist, only the past and the future. If you know the geometric concept of a line, that is the present. A line has no width. A line is only a delineator, and, in a way it doesn't exist either.

Now to really fuck up the logic, and possibly hijack the thread (badly needed), the present is but a line with only one dimension, that means the present does not exist. If the present does not exist how the hell can we ? So that is the paradox in logic that FORCES me to remain willing to accept that time travel is indeed possible.

Tell ya what, while intrigued, I don't think time travel is going to happen, but, go ahead and try. Just don't blow up the world. Personally, I think the requisite knowledge and equipment required for time travel (if it is possible at all), is beyond the reach of humans right now, and I think that is as it should be.

T

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/28/2006 4:09:11 AM   
glovedneck


Posts: 5
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline 		We're able to see things in the universe that are really a snapshot of something at a particular time. If we were able to travel fast enough to that snapshot we'd be able to go back in time I suppose. Some day I think it will be possible. It would be fun though but how the hell do you get back? I think the more interesting question is: Can we change history if it's possible to go back in time? 

(in reply to Dauric)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/29/2006 2:29:16 AM   
allyC


Posts: 778
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		I think I understand what he means by "Independently discovered." If I were to write a song and added some cool lyrics and called it mine, and then find out that the melody that I wrote had been written back in 1926 by Cole Porter but was not popular and I had never heard it before, I could say that I independently wrote that melody, even though someone wrote the same melody many years earlier. To "Independently" discover something doesn't mean you did it first, or that you were the only one to do it - it simply means that on your own, you discovered something. So perhaps, 20 years ago, not knowing about this particular interpretation, he came to the same conclusions in his own studies, independent (unknowing) of the MWI.  Later he learned that this interpretation had already been given a name and been credited to someone else.  That wouldn't change the fact that at some point, this man independently drew the same conclusion. Well wishes, Cav's ally

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/29/2006 2:34:21 AM   
philosophy


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Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		"the present is but a line with only one dimension, that means the present does not exist. If the present does not exist how the hell can we ? So that is the paradox in logic that FORCES me to remain willing to accept that time travel is indeed possible."

there's no paradox......you've already mentioned the answer. If you are right and the present has but one dimension it exists in one dimension. Your assertion that a one dimensional object does not exist is clearly flawed. It may not exist in a three dimensional world view, but going back to your humancentric point thats only a very specialised viewpoint.

(in reply to allyC)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/29/2006 2:43:38 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		ohhh where was it..i saw it somewhere..on discovery i think..that there is a gap in the time..which they expect should be the door to travel through time .. but the only problem is how to get there ok  I saw this years ago so I don't remember exactly but I think it was something like this..

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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/29/2006 5:45:50 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip
The BB is a historical fact.

The big bang is an interpretation of a few extraordinary phenomena. There is no evidence that these interpretations are correct. The observed phenomena are facts, but the big bang is not a fact, but merely a contentious interpretation. Several people dispute some or all of the big bang interpretations of the observed phenomena.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/29/2006 6:21:27 AM   
twicehappy


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


But God, what stuff dreams are made of........kinda makes you fell kinda cheap to be out here looking for a blowjob, don't it?  (It don't me......LOL)


I said something to Scooter over the weekend and thought i post it here to match your comment.

If you think about it really is almost unbelievable how many intelligent minds are arguing time travel, quantum theory and the like on a place called collarme. After all aren't we supposed to be a bunch of pervs looking to get off?

And, no i do not feel cheap about it either.

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(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/29/2006 9:20:33 AM   
cloudboy


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A lot of my problems would be solved if I could actually trade on retroactivebrokers.com. Instead, I'm left to rue my mistakes.

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RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/30/2006 12:15:57 AM   
captiveplatypus


Posts: 382
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline 		Is it simply disgusting that I haven't even opened this thread since the last time I posted in it?

I was kind of hoping y'all would pick up on my Jesus = alien-hybrid-baby theory. *pout*

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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/30/2006 10:48:57 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Maybe it is just a timing thing..........dunno

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/31/2006 12:02:06 AM   
bignipples2share


Posts: 611
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

There is an interesting paradox to consider when you ponder the possibility of time travel...  Consider this:

You travel back in time and somehow manage to kill your mother.  If you do this, you would not have been born.  Therefore you would never have travelled back in time.  Thus you would never have killed your mother.  Ad infinitum.

As if that does not make your brain hurt. 

Ahhh so in effect, this would be hell... another dimension?

(in reply to SirKenin)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: It is impossible to travel through time because tim... - 8/31/2006 2:29:48 AM   
bignipples2share


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I find all of this fascinating. There have been so many wonderful posts. .
I’d like to go back to the part where someone was talking about parallel universe. The sci-fi story where one set of people were moving at a rate we’re all familiar with and the others were speeding along so fast they were invisible, yet they all co-existed in the same space yet different dimension, different time? Since their time line is and is not on the same line as ours?
Now, is that not already occurring? Maybe not exactly as seen on that show, but if you think about it, we’re living at one rate of speed and our pets are living at another, they’re just not moving as fast as in that show, as we can see them. They’re living their full lives right in front of us yet at a different rate of time than we are. The birds, aren’t their hearts beating faster than ours, don’t they move faster than we do? Some of them live a much shorter life and others outlive us. I recall King Tut, a cockatoo, who was documented as over 100 years old and they’ve no idea how long he’d lived before it started being documented.
Did I totally leave the ball park with these thoughts?

~Big

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 156
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