RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message


Amaros -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/25/2006 6:00:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I have to get this out of my system. 

There have been so many threads lately about whether people should work or marry or how they should take care of each other during illness.  When did the lifestyle become an excuse not to live as a *real* person?  The lifestyle does not define me in my entirety.  I am many things...sub, mom, daughter, sister, employee, responsible adult.  Can people live without living for the lifestyle?  It seems to me that many are not capable of this.  Yes, the lifestyle is important to me, but I also like being *real*, not living every moment for the lifestyle.

Comments?  Reactions?



The first step in solving a particular problem is to identify by definition what the problem is - identifying the problem is not the solution, but it clears things up, and allows one to objectively assess the problem and propose solutions that satisfy the desired outcome requirements of the problem.

I happen to think a big part of the problem is the term "lifestyle" itself - not everybody means the same thing when they say it.

This might get a little long.

Technically, there are two aspects to any relationship, which I'll call a dyad to avoid confusion - I may want to use the term relationship in another context for example, and dyad simply means "two units regarded as one", or in Sociological terms: "two persons in a continuing relationship involving interaction".

The dyad exists in a figure-background relationship within a larger context of  a community, a social matrix with certain expectations and practices, mores - in short, the entire social fabric: legal, moral, ethical, etc., and typically this fabric is seldom homogeneous outside very isolated populations such as the Japanese.

The dyad must conform to soem degree to these expectations, and in a more homogeneous culture such as Japan, behaviors that might be called "deviant" (in spite of the fact that they occur in practically every culture, in every age), are integrated into the main fabric.

In the US, by contrast (and possibly in the UK), where there is a great deal of lingering influence from dualist religion in the common culture-consensus in the broadest sense, and very evident in the dominant cultural consensus - the dominant culture is the one that makes the laws, and assumes the use of force majeure.

Subcultures emerge to regularize these behaviors, which include sexual and social behaviors outside the dominant culture's definition of "normal", thus "deviant".

Such subcultures arise out of neccessity: social censure leads to social death, which is crippling in a number of ways: from making it difficult or impossible to earn a living, to mental illness, all the way up to spontanous death from sheer stress - persecuted minorities around the world typically score around ten points lower on IQ tests: African Americans, Irish Catholics, Palestinians - recent reports indicate declining mental health among American Muslims, greater incidence of depression, suicidal behavior, etc.

Dominent culture often operates in ways consistent with mob psychology: the image of a Dom sodomizing a sub tied to a bedpost while calling her a worthless slut is an image unaceptable to common culture, but there can be, and probobly is, more often than not, more empathy and understanding flowing between the individuals in this dyad than there is in the shocked disaproval of the dominent culture: the dyad may be utterly objectified and abrogated of human identity iwth no attempt to understand the dynamic involved, or recognition that it is essentially a ritual of normalization and defiance of the dehumanizing forces of dominent culture itself, flouting through exaggerated mimicry, it's own conventions (yes, I'm a a slut, and I like it)

Forming subcultures of common interest is a protective mechanism against the objectifying forces of a dualist common culture, in which one is either "in" or "out", and creating pockets of approval for "differently experienced" (like that one?) individuals and dyads. The experience sets the members of the subculture apart - very few people can understand and acid trip unless they've taken one, pornstars complain they simply can't date people outside the industry because there is simply sucha a vast gulf of perception between their respective modes of sexual identity.

Ideally, the cubculture exists within the context of the common culture, it obeys the same laws, with some notable differences, but generally confoming the most important ones - drug use, for example, the act of altering ones consciousness through chemical means is illegal, but it is arguably neither unconstitutional nor unethical, provided some kind of social controls are being provided to keep others from being harmed by it and may be tolerated withing the subculture, while murder will probobly not be, as it constitutes a threat to everyone in the subculture, just as it does in the common culture - exceptions exist of course, in criminal cultures, which also tend to overlap other, non-criminal subcultures, mostly for econiomic reasons, but nevertheless tend to be treated as entirely seperate subcultures - Owsley was "in" the psychedelic subculture, La Cosa Nostra, which probobly supplied a lot of drugs to the same psychedelic subculture was a seperate subcultural entity.

Apologies for the divergence, the point is this: the subculture exists within the common culture - aspects of them may be at odds, but a feedback loop forms between the cultures where they are not utterly incompatable - drug use - or at least the use of drugs that tend to promote modes of thought inconvenient to the dominent culture - is utterly incompatable with dominant culture, but became integrated to some degree within  the common culture, and made deep inroads into the dominent culture, where dissaproval is often little more than a facade (somebody is importing the shit, and it ain't Willis).

Similarly, only a couple of decades ago homosexuality was actively and openly persecuted, now body culture, which arose originally from gay culture, is practically ubiquitous, and there are helpful homosexuals on network television offering sartorial tips to us fashion disasters.

It's withing the space created in this feedback loop that the term "lifestyle" emerged I believe, and it refers to ones identity with the subculture: both external things like velour leisure suits and gold chains for the swingers, as well as to some degree, behavioral expectations withing the dyad, and encompasses it's overlapping of the larger common culture - materialist values for example: big house, nice car, good job, etc.

The subculture itself, if large and diverse enough, may fragment into subcultures itself - lamenting the changing of the "old gaurd" is simply a reflection of the same nostalgia the common culture feels for  a Golden age that never really existed - humands are creatures of habit and have a fairly substantial provincial streak - Paleolithic Northern European culture existed for almost ten thousand years with almost no detectable change - The Roman Catholics burned books, and tortured and murdered thousands upon thousands of human beings rather than admit change for nearly ten centuries - thus, the term "lifestyle" is itself so variable and subject to change as to defy concise definition.

Loosly, I believe it refers to current fashionable standards of behavior within the dyad, but also to it's context in the common culture: when I see "10 years experience in the lifestyle", or "seeking X established in the lifestyle, both dyad expectations and cultural/subcultural context are being referred to - to my mind more the dyad in the first example, and more toward the social context in the latter.

Heh, I haven't answered your question, just tried to define the problem - I'll have to fall back and regroup.







KnightofMists -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/25/2006 6:01:15 PM)

My lifestyle doesn't define me... I define my lifestyle by the choices I make as I live. 




Amaros -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/25/2006 6:11:53 PM)

See if this is any simpler: "Lifestyle" implies you have a life... [8|]






Amaros -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/25/2006 6:18:45 PM)

What exactly does the word "slut" mean anyway, BTW? I've never quite figured that one out.




popeye1250 -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/25/2006 6:49:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pissdoll

mm, this is exactly why i am single.

YES, i am a slave and that will always be a part of who i am.
i am also a scientist; i am also a student.  i love baseball, hiking, foreign films and comic books.

dominant men can't seem to meet the need of an intellectual companion, or someone to do fun things with.  every hike has to end with me being tied to a tree (hey, don't get me wrong...i LOVE that, but again, sometimes JUST hiking to the top of a mountain and having a picnic lunch is a good time).

and as you said with the brother comment, those men who i go to dinner with, or a baseball game or any number of other things, i just don't feel attracted to.

so the trick is to find someone who can be both for me.  should be so easy...but it's not.

(edited...still can't type today  LOL)

Pissdoll, is that really true about Dominant men?
I realize that some of them could never be able to hold a decent dinner conversation about history, economics, politics etc but is it that prevalent where you live?
When I lived in New England that wasn't the case at all, most of the Doms I knew were fairly intelligent and interesting and came from interesting backgrounds.




Rayne58 -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/25/2006 6:55:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Viper001: I completely agree. Nobody's asked me to stop singing. But I have heard some Master'say that simply demanding it would "make it so". This is true, if you are their slave. I keep hearing some say that is why it is so important to choose a Master very carefully. In any case, unless someone cuts out my tongue, I do not plan to stop singing. Thanks for caring enough to comment about it, though. [:)]

- Susan


Frankly, Susan, this is the type of stupidity that happens when you START a relationship BY defining yourselves as Master/slave etc.....and looking at each other AS those things instead of as people.

If you just get to know people as potential *friends* and *cool person to know* .....those things really are not an issue at all.

Masters are people.....that's all. The dynamic of *being a sub/slave* TO that person wouldn't even happen if you didn't get along as people and share a similar outlook on LIFE.

You don't go marrying someone just because they are *husband material* ....lol

Regards, agirl





Master and I were online friends first, then our relationship "shifted gears" and we became romantically involved. I knew He was a Master but had no idea what that entailed at first. However I have always had a submissive personality and fantasies of being tied up and controlled, so He driected me to a couple of sites to read up on it and I searched and found sites myself.

The BDSM elements are a part of our life, but it is not our "lifestyle". I am His lover, fiancee, partner and carer as well as His submissive. The D/s dynamic is just "there", it is not something I consciously think about. To others outside, I am just extra loving and attentive [;)]




ownedgirlie -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/25/2006 8:07:20 PM)

~ Fast Reply ~

I am Master's slave and live my life as such.  While living my life, I am a daughter, a sister, a friend and an employee.  I go out, I have fun, I engage in intelligent and silly conversations about all sorts of thing.  I go to movies.  I help my family.  I play with my neices & nephews. I go to shows, and travel on occasion.

But all the while, I am his slave.

We were not "friends" first.  I have always been submissive to him.  He enjoyed what he saw in me and I was drawn to his power. 

Call it what you will - but in all I do, I am his slave.




Sunshine119 -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/25/2006 8:25:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Viper001
for those of us in 24/7 TPE relationships, the dynamic is primarily between the partners - and it's not always something we can turn on/off at will, sometimes it's just a natural part of who we are in the relationship. In most other aspects of our daily lives, especially with others, we are just as "real" as anyone else.


This is precisely the point.  We don't turn "off" 24/7 relationships.  We don't forget who we are in the context of those relationships.  Even in relationships with others, our own parents, our collegues at work, our children, our friends, the relationship that overshadows everything else is that 24/7 D/s relationship.  It does define us in many ways.

Could we forget that we are parents, have parents or need to work?  No.  Now multiply these feelings by 100 and you start to understand how this dynamic defines US.




ExSteelAgain -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/25/2006 9:24:57 PM)

The theme that runs through my posts here is to have fun and show common sense. D/s is powerful and we all love it, but don’t lose your head at any stage of your journey. Some people, most of us here, are going to have inner drives to be involved in D/s and blindly fulfilling the desire can lead to poor choices and bad experiences.

What happens is that many are overwhelmed by the Dom and sub roles and don’t realize the same qualities that make good partners in vanilla relationships  make good partners in D/s relationships. Rigid 24/7 submersion in D/s is an attempt to overcome inadequacies by the Dom or sub. One day, one of you is going to have a realization that you still have the same life with all the same problems.




Wolfie648 -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/26/2006 2:35:47 AM)

Correct. One defines their own lifestyle (at least as I see it). Regardless of what others think and as long as no-one else is hurting anyone else against their own will.

And on a side note to other current threads, yes reality intrudes it's ugly head.

D (owner of j).




Wolfie648 -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/26/2006 2:49:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Rigid 24/7 submersion in D/s is an attempt to overcome inadequacies by the Dom or sub. One day, one of you is going to have a realization that you still have the same life with all the same problems.


O dear. I had better change my life to fit your mindset. ehhh maybe not so much. Have fun with your 'rigid' thinking.

We all have inadequacies. The other's fill in the missing weaknesses; we provide the other's strengths.

This is not 1/2 +1/2 = 1. This is 1+1 =2.025

Hey if I am wrong and you are everything all by yourself please accept my apologies I didn't mean to stomp on your perfection of self. Have fun with whatever handedness you are.

D (owner of j).




BuxomGoddess714 -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/26/2006 3:04:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

There have been so many threads lately about whether people should work or marry or how they should take care of each other during illness.  When did the lifestyle become an excuse not to live as a *real* person?  ....
Comments?  Reactions?


Being Dominant is a personality trait.  You go to work, pay Your bills, take care of Your sick loved ones and are functionally Dominant in your business, frienships, etc.  It's who You are.  Being submissive is your nature so you serve your boss or customers, take care of your loved ones and are functionally submissive towards others.  Grown ups have priorities.  People who do not wish to live in Reality will find lots of excuses and other "lifestyles", religiouns, issues, whatever to get out of responsibilities.  I don't buy it.

Be blessed,
Goddess 




SusanofO -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/26/2006 3:10:30 AM)

Amaros: Wow, what a great post! It was fun to read.

- Susan




ExSteelAgain -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/26/2006 5:39:51 AM)

Amaros, thanks for that detailed sociological study of associatioins and groupings. You always put a lot of effort into your learned posts and I appreciate that.




Amaros -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/26/2006 6:37:55 AM)

Thanks you two, got a little long winded, and one point I meant to make toward the end there is that once you get something called "lifestyle", then that becomes something of a thing, a subculture in itself - so you are going to get people who want to skip the dyad phase, and even the consensus/community building phase and simply adopt "the lifestyle".

I think this is probobly where the 'lifestyle haters' are coming from, maybe seeing more of this than others. It's another demographic shift and tends to change the definition some - new people seeking to adopt the "lifestyle" may be only perceiving certain aspects of it, fetish wear, etc., or drawn to it because of it's sensationalist aspect, with little understanding of the interpersonal dynamics involved and the dyad formation is more of an afterthought (I guess I need a slave then?), rather than seeking to find a way to integrate their existing relationship into a community.

Now I've got no problems with this personally, it's a predictable phenomona, and an equilibrium will be reached at some point (fashion is a form of ugliness so profound we have to change it every six months) and I think the community itself is more than capable of protecting it's territory, so to speak - Goth is already something of a seperate cubculture with a great deal of overlap, and one even occasionally gets a whif of Old gaurd disgruntlement over changes wrought by new people with different generational acculturation.

Some confusion over the meaning of various terms and behaviors may apply, all part of the process of consensus formation or reformation.




ExSteelAgain -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/26/2006 11:18:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfie648

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Rigid 24/7 submersion in D/s is an attempt to overcome inadequacies by the Dom or sub. One day, one of you is going to have a realization that you still have the same life with all the same problems.


O dear. I had better change my life to fit your mindset. ehhh maybe not so much. Have fun with your 'rigid' thinking.

We all have inadequacies. The other's fill in the missing weaknesses; we provide the other's strengths.

This is not 1/2 +1/2 = 1. This is 1+1 =2.025

Hey if I am wrong and you are everything all by yourself please accept my apologies I didn't mean to stomp on your perfection of self. Have fun with whatever handedness you are.

D (owner of j).


I can't be mad at a Dom who starts a post with "O dear."




SCORPIOXXX -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/26/2006 11:50:31 AM)

FAST REPLY TO ALL

I'll keep it simple: if you let the lifestyle define you, then you are not you anymore!

Another way to put it, at least for me: It's a tool to an end rather an end in itself.




ninella -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/26/2006 12:46:02 PM)

the lifestyle shouldn't define you?
that's true, I think - for others.
I - as a Mistress - I also have a work, and other vanilla RL obligations for myself and others who depend on me.
but, I still think that - if I divorced, and one of the reasons for it was my ex husband's disagreement about alt.lifestyle - how can I say that alt. doesn't define Me?
this lifestyle is one of the reasons I exist, I live for this so I just can't say that bdsm is not that much important to me to make my life going in this way.





MasterNdorei -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/26/2006 7:23:42 PM)

Because of the journey into my own surrender to a Master, i speak differently when i am in a public place. i put more effort into my appearance, and am almost always aware that what i do reflects on Him. i feel calmer and happier for His guidence. These and many other examples impact me in all i do. You can say the lifestyle should not define me, but it definately affects who i am in ways that expand into other areas of my defined "self".

The lifestyle may not define everyone, but it certainly helps to define others. You may have the same idea that being Catholic should not define anyone, but you'll have a better chance convincing a casual Catholic of this, than you will a nun.




SweetEscravo -> RE: The Lifestyle Shouldn't Define You (8/26/2006 8:52:47 PM)

I have a hundred "life styles"...bdsm happens to be one of many.  I might define myself as a submissive, but I don't let it define me- I am so many other things as well.




Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.09375