RE: Cynical assumptions. (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message


WhipTheHip -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/30/2006 11:09:35 AM)

> To imply that men can't be submissives in their heart all
> the time though is just silly.

It is funny how people read into other people's words
more than they say.  I never implied men can't be
submissive in their heart all the time.  It is very likely
some men can, I think many can't.




mnottertail -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/30/2006 11:15:49 AM)

I cynically assume the worst of everything, because I am cynical by nature, and assumption is much less work than finding out.....

Remember Einsteins words.........'Imagination in more important than knowledge.'



Ron




juliaoceania -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/30/2006 11:33:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip


 
When I use the word "dominant" what I mean are
people who almost always  insist on things being
done their way, people who are by their very nature
controlling and uncompromising.   I dislike conflict
and confrontation.   I am a very, very easy-going
person.  ***Most*** dominant people mistake
my easy-going nature for submissiveness, and
try to force their will on me or try to take advantage
of me.   I am peculiar in that the more a person tries
to force their will on me or take advantage of me 
the more I fight back.  Though, I do have a weakness
for attrative females.  
 


I do not call this sort of person a "dominant" , I call them a domineering ass, no matter what the sex. My Dom is extremely easy going, doesn't sweat the small stuff, and is extremely disciplined in himself. The person you describe above sounds like a selfish asshole, and a good dominant is not a selfish dominant that does not take his submissive into account. An uncompromising dominant wouldn't keep me for long. I  love to give my Dom everything he wants, but someone who is uncompromising and in control over me would be insufferable.. the two do not go together in my mind.




FirmhandKY -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/30/2006 12:54:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Whip, no I don't think that's impossable at all.  But you get some in here and
elsewhere who are "purists" I call them; "there's only one way to do it" people.


Thank you, Popeye.  I've said this before, and I will say it again. 
Every group is controlled by the most fanatical members of
the group.  This is true for Democrats, Republicans, Christians,
Muslims, atheists, animal rights groups, vegetarians, enviromental
groups, developers, etc,  Every group has their own ayotollahs,
and party purity police, their own Taliban who insist on some
extreme. 
 
The extremists are more active, more vocal, and more forceful. 
So people who tend to have a more balanced position or view
tend to be identified with the opposition.  There is an "either-or
mentality."  Either you are this way, or you are that way, you
can't be both this way and that way.  Either you are for this
or you are against this.   This is called the doughnut fallacy.  
But a large number of people think there are only two sides
to every issue, that if something is not black, it must be white.  
 
Reality tends to be analog, spectrum and continuum, rather
than digital and quantum.  Fuzzy logic is more appropriate for
most real problems than binary logic.  I disliked Bill Clinton, but
he understood the concept of fuzzy logic.  Conservatives tend 
to use binary logic.  "Either he lied under oath or he didn't." 
"Either he was a criminal or he wasn't." "Every lie under oath
is perjury and must be treated like every other lie under oath." 
"The vote was counted two times."
 
Liberals tend to see every person as an individual, and
do not make any inferences based on the larger class
that person may belong to.  Conservatives tend to see
every person first as a member of some class of people,
and secondly as an individual.  So, conservatives are
more likely to miss the fact that someone is different
in some major way from the class of people they belong
to. And liberals are more likely not to draw any probabilities
about an unknown person from the larger class of people
they belong to.
 
In other words conservatives tend to over-use generalizations,
and liberals tend to underuse generalizations.  The liberal
airport screener may not take a closer look at young, male 
Muslims even though they are more likely to likely to be
terrorists than old, female, Buddhists.  A conservative
airport screener may ignore all old, female Buddhists under
the false presumption that an old, female, Buddhist can't be
a terrorist.
 
I used to manage a hotel on Miami Beach.  At first I rented
to everybody, and gave everyone the benefit of the doubt.
Then I discovered I almost always ran into problems with
certain types of person.  For example, everytime I had to
eject a low-income, young, black, male from the hotel for not
paying their bill, they would almost always become physically
violent.  A lot of times, I would have never guessed this person
would become violent from my first lengthy interview with them.
A lot of people have the ability to change their personality from
friendly to hostile in the blink of an eye when things don't go
their way.

I didn't have security, so every time this occurred, my physical
safety was put at risk.  The police had little interest in helping
me.  So, I reached a point where I became very, very selective
when young, low-income, black males wanted to rent a room. 
 
On the other hand, the two best friends I have ever had in life
were both black guests who lived at this hotel.  Both kept
to themselves. I only got to know each of them after quite
some time.  From their apparance and their superficial behavior,
I never would have guessed their true nature.  They were both
the kindest, nicest, gentlest people I have ever met.

I don't believe in astrology, but those who do ought to be able
to figure out my astrological sign.  It is my ideal, what I strive for. 


You are making a quite a damn few assumptions yourself and exhibiting the "doughnut" theory, as well as using faulty logic, sweeping generalizations and mis-definitions.

Pray, tell me, is there anyone of principle that you didn't seek to piss off in this post?

FHky




FirmhandKY -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/30/2006 12:55:42 PM)

Whip, I have to say, if you had WANTED to display "cynical assumptions" you couldn't have done it any better than with the above post I quoted.

*shakes head*

FHky

edited to add: clarity




WhipTheHip -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/30/2006 1:12:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I do not call this sort of person a "dominant" , I call them a domineering ass, no matter what the sex. My Dom is extremely easy going, doesn't sweat the small stuff, and is extremely disciplined in himself. The person you describe above sounds like a selfish asshole, and a good dominant is not a selfish dominant that does not take his submissive into account. An uncompromising dominant wouldn't keep me for long. I  love to give my Dom everything he wants, but someone who is uncompromising and in control over me would be insufferable.. the two do not go together in my mind.


It is hard to communicate with words since
different words mean different things to each
of us.  When I think of a dominant person,
a certain kind of image comes to mind. 
When you think of a dominant person, 
an entirely different person might come
to mind.  We all speak from our own
personal experiences.   It is hard to
describe the color red to a man born
blind.  If you have only experienced 
six feet tall tables, it is hard to understand 
how anyone can eat at a table.  I am
limited by my personal experiences.  I
wish that wasn't the case.    
 




KatyLied -> Broad Sweeping Generalizations (8/30/2006 1:22:15 PM)

quote:

It is hard to communicate with words since
different words mean different things to each
of us. 


And that is what makes communication a challenge and a joy, and sometimes a waste.




popeye1250 -> RE: Broad Sweeping Generalizations (8/30/2006 1:33:22 PM)

Katy, well said!
And isn't that ever the truth!




mnottertail -> RE: Broad Sweeping Generalizations (8/30/2006 1:37:53 PM)

Now that this thread has wended its way to broad sweeping generalizations---

Let me state that the whale is undoubtably one of the largest mammals alive, today.

Ron




bignipples2share -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/30/2006 2:26:24 PM)

Twice, all of your comments were fine. It's just the slap on the wrist (or kick in the head) that seems to be given, by some people, to people who want to be topped in this manner. They're told they're wrong for thinking this, or that the dominate bottom is wrong and they should dump these thoughts and the dominate bottom who are ruining them. tsk tsk
It's not like I'm stealing some innocent person away from anyone, they coming freely to me and with knowledge, after having tried it the other way and want something different. I'm not the one trying to cram it down someones throat what they should and should not like. I make it clear to them from the start, in my profile and again when I'm contacted. Not everyone wants to be a dominate top, but there's many who wont admit it, because of the snickers and beratement. Told they really don't know what they want, or what it's all about. Such an ugly thing.

~Big




juliaoceania -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/30/2006 2:54:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I do not call this sort of person a "dominant" , I call them a domineering ass, no matter what the sex. My Dom is extremely easy going, doesn't sweat the small stuff, and is extremely disciplined in himself. The person you describe above sounds like a selfish asshole, and a good dominant is not a selfish dominant that does not take his submissive into account. An uncompromising dominant wouldn't keep me for long. I  love to give my Dom everything he wants, but someone who is uncompromising and in control over me would be insufferable.. the two do not go together in my mind.


It is hard to communicate with words since
different words mean different things to each
of us.  When I think of a dominant person,
a certain kind of image comes to mind. 
When you think of a dominant person, 
an entirely different person might come
to mind.  We all speak from our own
personal experiences.   It is hard to
describe the color red to a man born
blind.  If you have only experienced 
six feet tall tables, it is hard to understand 
how anyone can eat at a table.  I am
limited by my personal experiences.  I
wish that wasn't the case.    
 


I agree it is hard to communicate when people have such a different definition of the word they are using. Again we get into a situation where we are talking apples and oranges. I could start a thread about whether people here thought "dominant" meant selfish, self absorbed person that was uncompromising... I am thinking that many people would not see themselves or their partners this way... in some ways it is an insult to dominants that you categorize them this way, and I would not do that to a group of people. It is almost like going to a forum for Black people and making huge stereotyping statements about them, like saying "Black people tend to be good at sports and they all like rap music", you would be either laughed at or you would be ridiculed for such statements. I see no difference between generalizing by ethnicity or sexual orientation. If you made the statement that all gay men love interior design and fashion, that would also be eroneous. I am not picking on you, but I surely hope you understand how prejudiced and bigoted you sound.

I do not understand why you hang out with subs/slaves/dom/mes if you think that we are all either abused or abusive. Either doormats or domineering narcistic assholes.. there seems to be very little respect for the lifestyle or the people that practice it  in your remarks... This is perhaps not intentional and since message boards are two dimensional communication devices, I will not be offended, but I just have to wonder what your real point is in being here if you think so ill of us all.




cynthiamarie -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/30/2006 5:44:11 PM)

quote:

When I use the word "dominant" what I mean are people who almost always  insist on things being done their way, people who are by their very nature controlling and uncompromising.

I would call that domineering, not dominant. 
 
quote:

***Most*** dominant people mistake
my easy-going nature for submissiveness, and try to force their will on me or try to take advantage of me.

You stand up for yourself and your beliefs so firmly and loudly <observes your large typing> on the forums, it's difficult to imagine you being so mild mannered in r/t. [:D]  Sheesh, you are such a pistol here.  
 
If some dominants misread you and overstepped a line, they needed the lesson in judging people that you obviously gave them. 
 
quote:

I am peculiar in that the more a person tries to force their will on me or take advantage of me the more I fight back.

Good for you...submission is supposed to be consensual. 
 
Some things happen that mold how we see the world and choose to deal with it.  This works for you and for my mother and cousin and the son of a friend of mine, but of course I think that my way is better; I overdosed on cynicism, and prefer my rose colored specs. 
 
Why not take a breather from the pro-domme friends, and find switches and Dommes who aren't into all the objectification and humiliation that you don't respond well to.  A loving sadistic switch, for a change of pace. 
 
Maybe men go to the pro-dommes you know for the type of domination they only want for a day or a few days at a time, not for the type they can live with long term.  They're not looking for a love thing nor an LTR from these women.  It's approached as a fantasy fulfilment, so I'm wondering if making it become real must be more difficult than when someone approaches it from making it liveable for r/t long term from the very beginning.  I'm assuming that the women you explored submitting to in the past were these pro-domme friends.  I might be just ASSuming too much.
 
 




Aine -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/30/2006 7:14:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aine

*stands up and applauds*

I couldn't have said it any better.  Being a bisexual switch, apparently to some I'm all sortsa confused.


Quite happy the way I am, thanks.



Aine, (Beautiful Irish name by the way) a Bi-Sexual Switch.
My hat is off to you! You can have fun Anywhere!  With anyone! lol


*giggles*
It's funny you bring that back up, because while some, like you (yes I'm assuming) would understand that while I have the "facilities" to enjoy all in anyway....I don't feel the need to.  I've had all monogomous, long-term relationships.  And for some reason, some people don't understand that or automatically assume that I'm A:going to cheat eventually B:demand I get to have some booty on the side wif a female.  Yeah, I have had two threesomes in my time.  Once while I was single, and once with my ex-boyfriend.  Not something I actively seek out or crave or think wistfully about doing again.  Would I if given the opportunity and permission?  Perhaps. I don't know.

I guess that pretty much sums up what I deal with by being a bisexual female.

Now....being a switch who doesn't claim to be a sub or a Domme within my current relationship, I am constantly barraged by subs who think that no matter what I say, that I -need- a toy/errandboy/slave.  And there are Dom/mes who, again, no matter what I say, think that I -need- a Mistress/Master/"Real"Dom/me(whatever the fark that means) or someone to "put me in my place".

My question is this:

WHY.  When I'm quite clear about what I have and what I want, do people try to tell me what they think I need, or think I will automatically do based on those two very specific facts?  When indeed, yes, I am a bisexual switch female...that isn't all of me.  And quite honestly in some ways, a big part of who I am and in some ways,  a not so big part of who I am.




mnottertail -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/30/2006 7:45:18 PM)

because you would be easier to handle--nice posts,

so; I'm gonna quit fuckin' around out here and tell you what you REALLY need---


LOL,
Ron






happypervert -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/31/2006 6:06:30 AM)

quote:

WHY.  When I'm quite clear about what I have and what I want, do people try to tell me what they think I need, or think I will automatically do based on those two very specific facts?

Change the bold words "think" above to "hope" and that you will involve them in it. There's yer answer.





WhipTheHip -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/31/2006 6:25:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryVanWinkle
I have seen more than a few women on this site who also have both a Dom and sub profile.  One reason people do this is that not many people look at "Switch" profiles.  I see nothing wrong with it, as long as the person doing it isn't pretending to be two different people.

 
I see nothing wrong with people making more than one profile. 
Nor do I see anything wrong with someone pretending to be
two different people.   I think one person can be two different
people.  I think some people have a wide range of behavior
how they interact with others. 
 
If can be both dominant and submissive, I can understand
why you might have two profiles, and not let subs know you
can be submissive and not let dommes know you can be
dominant.    I think it is quite possible for a switch to
remain in one mode or the other for the right partner.
 




Homestead -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/31/2006 6:28:04 AM)

It's also quite possible for people to be disingenuous, and use multiple profiles deceptively.

I think that is what is being objected to here.[&:]




WhipTheHip -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/31/2006 6:54:42 AM)

> You stand up for yourself and your beliefs so
> firmly and loudly <observes your large typing>
 
Actually, I have a super high resolution screen,
and the normal text here looks microscopic. I
increase the size of the text to make it look
normal and readible.  I can barely read this
font size on my screen.
 
> it's difficult to imagine you being so mild
> mannered in r/t.
 
In real life, I rarely discuss issues.  I only get
this way, when I am debating.  In normal
social interaction, which is 99.99% of the
time I am quite laid back, having nothing
to prove.

> Why not take a breather from the
> pro-domme friends
 
Really I don't have much contact with them these days,
though I do have a close female friend who has emotional
issues.  We have never been anything more than very
good friends.  She is very conservative, Christian and
Puritanical.  She thinks people into bdsm are sick.
She helped me when I needed help, now it is my turn
to help her.
 
> find switches and Dommes who aren't into all the
> objectification and humiliation that you don't respond
> well to. 

When it comes to the bedroom, I like objectification.
Nor do I mind humiliation.  I am pretty felixible.  What
I dislike is non-sexual, emotional sadism.  People
who seek out your weaknesses and say things
calculated to make you feel bad.

> I'm assuming that the women you explored
> submitting to in the past were these pro-domme
> friends.
 
Nope, I never had any interest submitting to a
pro-domme.   Actually, submission is not my thing.
My fantasy is having a survivor do to me what
she would want to do to the one who hurt her.
 




SusanofO -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/31/2006 6:59:12 AM)

You want me to treat you that way? Really?  That sounds so sweet (truly) but - you better think it through...because this means, WhiptheHip - that we have to get married, so I can work 60-80 hour work-weeks, and treat you like you don't exist when I do come home. And when I am home, I get to spend all of my time either on the computer or in my workshop, making metal stuff nobody else needs or understands. And NO SEX - ever. No hugs or kisses, either. Okay? [:D]

P. S. I am not sure I can inflict this on another human being for years on end - even if it is your fantasy. It's sweet of you to want to offer this to submissives, though.

- Susan




WhipTheHip -> RE: Cynical assumptions. (8/31/2006 7:05:00 AM)

> A loving sadistic switch, for a change of pace. 

I really have never met a sadistic female or a
female switch.  There are a lot of loving females,
but I have never found one interested in me, that
I found attractive or compatible.  And I'm not that
picky.  Which is quite amazing since inmates
in prison always seem to have females interested
in them, guys with all sorts of physical disabilities
seem to have females interested in them, guys
with severe substance abuse problems seem
to have females interested in them.  
 
Michael




Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875