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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 11:13:06 AM

gooddogbenji

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueHnS

if you create a hostile living environment you can be charged.

Okay. And then? You have pissed off Nazis who just had to pay a fine. Wait, if they do it again, charge them again - it'll piss them off more. YAY!

Yours,

benji

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 11:30:55 AM

Mercnbeth

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Invite them over for a Labor Day Weekend BBQ and announce you are going to screen the movie 'Producers'. Invite as many large and intimating looking people you know. It would be even better if you had leather/lifestyle friends attend dressed to impress wielding whips and all manner of harsh looking toys. If you have police friends have them stop by periodically and drop by even when you aren't home. Maybe the local police will agree to put you on a patrol route. If these people have gone beyond the costuming and have cause trouble in the community, the police will welcome the opportunity to be visible.

Unlike buried toxic waste, above ground toxic neighbors aren't grounds for disclosure. State law varies, in some places you can void the contract if it wasn't disclosed you house was considered "haunted"; but neighborhood Nazi's don't appear in any statute. Activities however are regulated. For instance, if they burn a cross you have cause. If there are more than a specific number of un-related people living in the house that also may be against local law. It will require some work on your part to find out.

Verbal taunts aside, a preemptive purchase of a gun kept visible or even a pit-bull may escalate the problem. It would also make you a focus. Taunting and verbal harassment are not crimes in any local in the US. Getting a restraining order would work, but you have to have cause and being that this is a next door neighbor I don't know how effective that would be.

Freedom of expression and speech still is legal in the US. One of the reasons we split from England in 1776, philosophy.

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 11:46:07 AM

NorthernGent

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arissa,

Sounds like you have no legal case as long as it remains verbal. So you have the following options:

1) Move

2) Kill them

3) Ignore them

4) Calmly state that their surpressed homosexual tendencies would be blatantly obvious if anyone took any notice of them.

3 is your best bet, just ignore them like the nomarks they are.

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 11:49:17 AM

gooddogbenji

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

arissa,

Sounds like you have no legal case as long as it remains verbal. So you have the following options:

4) Calmly state that their surpressed homosexual tendencies would be blatantly obvious if anyone took any notice of them.

Hope you're maso if you pick this one!

Yours,

benji

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 12:03:09 PM

NorthernGent

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This really pisses me off this "freedom of expression" bollocks. Free and civilised societies do not let their citizens run around saying whatever the fuck they want to whoever they like. That is not freedom - it's abuse! If that is a source of pride you must be hard up for a few positives over there.

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 12:07:42 PM

gooddogbenji

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So who decides what's appropriate?

That's the big question.

Do we say no racism? What about racist jokes? What about subliminal? Other subliminal messages? What about in art, which undermines racism?

"Fighting words" are not protected, but I think we should let people say what they want. It's when they act on it that it becomes a problem.

Yours,

benji

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 12:14:11 PM

NorthernGent

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benji,

Two different issues here:

1) Is it appropriate to draw a line?

2) Where is the line drawn?

1 = absolutely, 2 = not easy to define but that's why we elect a government to manage our interests.

Verbal abuse is as divisive and dangerous as physical abuse - the argument above suggests physical abuse should be accepted as freedom of expression.

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 12:14:32 PM

eruditegirl1

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As a former Realtor...and part of your problem is why the label is "former"...everything must be disclosed....no ifs, and. or, buts......contact the Realtors broker....contact the local Board of Realtors....and a Real Estate Attroney....also look at you TDS...Real Estate Transfer Disclosure....it is the paper both you...the seller..and both Realtors signed...has everything from appliances...to the roof listed on it...also if you signed a Buyers agreement...read it over too...if the other Realtor(selling side) was aware of this too...they are both liable....if I can help with any other questions...feel free to email me here at collar....

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 12:25:19 PM

SirKenin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subjected2006

if the realitor knew before hand of the conditions in this neighborhood i think they had moral and ethical obligations to warn you.

Maybe. And? Since when did that ever stop them. Realtors are not exactly in business to tell the truth, and if they are truthful they do not stay in business very long.

Most people seem to forget that a realtor is not there for the buyer. That is not their purpose in life. They represent the seller. Not you. If you got burned, that is because you did not do your homework. The responsibility is yours. Do not try and pass the buck.

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 12:28:00 PM

SirKenin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eruditegirl1

As a former Realtor...and part of your problem is why the label is "former"...everything must be disclosed....no ifs, and. or, buts......contact the Realtors broker....contact the local Board of Realtors....and a Real Estate Attroney....also look at you TDS...Real Estate Transfer Disclosure....it is the paper both you...the seller..and both Realtors signed...has everything from appliances...to the roof listed on it...also if you signed a Buyers agreement...read it over too...if the other Realtor(selling side) was aware of this too...they are both liable....if I can help with any other questions...feel free to email me here at collar....

Since when? Care to point us to this Law? The truth is they are not required to disclose anything about neighbors. That is up to you to figure out.

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 12:29:44 PM

SirKenin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Some more civilized states like California make it a breach of contract not to reveal things like this is the local white supremicist neighborhood and allow you to sue.

They do eh? Here is the Law from the State of California. Would you be so kind as to point us to the appropriate section?

http://www.dre.ca.gov/disclosures.htm

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 12:59:45 PM

BlueHnS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji
Okay. And then? You have pissed off Nazis who just had to pay a fine. Wait, if they do it again, charge them again - it'll piss them off more. YAY!

Sometimes in conflict especially with strong personalities, a third party can in fact help resolve to the point of agreeing to disagree and reduce further instigating on either side.

On another note, depending on how "nazi" they are, you could catch one alone and ask him why he believes as he does. I will admit this is a gamble... but I'm dumb enough to do things like this.

If none of that works I'll trade houses with you for a few weeks .. just long enough to adjust thier attitudes ... if they are pissed off about 1 lone mixed female wonder how they would act after my clan said hello. They'd probably be glad to get you back.

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 1:03:36 PM

gooddogbenji

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueHnS

Sometimes in conflict especially with strong personalities, a third party can in fact help resolve to the point of agreeing to disagree and reduce further instigating on either side.

Yep. Cuz Nazis LOVE being reported to the cops.

Yours,

benji

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 1:08:18 PM

NorthernGent

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See them for what they are - a pack of weak-minded social misfits and it will become obvious how to deal with them.

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 1:31:13 PM

SirKenin

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I can tell you that anyone here who tells you "go over and deal with them" either by talking to them, inviting them over or whatever does not have a clue what they are talking about.. They are just jabbering to hear themselves speak.

These people do not rationalize. They do not need your friendship. They do not want to see you on their street. They do not want to know you exist. Period. If you try anything you will either get your head kicked in or blown clean off. They might be misfits, but they are an extremely tough crowd. If you know what is good for you you will mind your own business and not rock the boat.

Calling the cops is not going to do anything. The cops do not give a shit. They are not stupid. They do not want to screw with them either. Besides, they know they are going to be in a cell one day, out on the street the next. Somebody crying the blues because they antagonized them with flags and pissed them off is more than likely not going to get the time of day. I GUARANTEE you that a few words exchanged is not going to get the time of day. Any resulting damage to your house, and it is coming I promise, is not going to get the time of day... "lack of evidence" I promise. I have been there. I know what to expect. There is always going to be an excuse..

These guys here think they are so smart, but they really are not. You do not mess with these people. I have seen first hand how the Law works in situations such as this.. And if they DO get charged, your dead. Simple. Kiss your life, or at the very least your freedom, goodbye. They will make your life a living hell and you will wish you never even bought those stupid flags. So do the sensible thing and take them down. Like I said, nobody cares for a smarty pants making a statement. I do not even do that. I do not even use bumper stickers. Shit, around here if you put the emblem of a competing hockey team (Ottawa is the worst as Toronto and Ottawa are fierce rivals) on your car or house you get your windows smashed in and your tires slashed.. You just have to start using some common sense.

The bottom line is this. If you do not bug them, they will not bug you. They will have no reason to. So I implore you to use your head and enjoy your new home.

< Message edited by SirKenin -- 8/31/2006 1:39:28 PM >

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 1:35:42 PM

LadyHugs

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Dear arissa, Ladies and Gentlemen;

No where in the USA, can you escape the prejudice, the bias and whatever negative behaviors of others--even on this list, not just in the neighborhood or the country's attitude.

Every single 'civil rights' groups that I can think of, are dysfunctional.
It has gotten to the point that its gone overboard as far as "Political Correctness goes." I think the prejudice, bias and hate is bubbling and boiling under the lid and I won't be shocked if there will be boil overs.

In the post Civil War era, the Invisible Empire, Knights of the Ku Klux Klan was founded. The Ku Klux Klan in Latin meant; What Always, What Everywhere, What by All. Founded by Confederate veterams as a society to protect Confederate widows, southern women and the children or those orphaned by war, from less than honorable behaviors of others. There was not much law enforcement so soon after post Civil War so, it was nothing much different from the militia or 'minute men.' It was more of a social club rather than a hate group. It was disbanded when those joining wanted to be more violent and law enforcement became more able to provide protection. There was a "Second" KKK organization created in 1915 and disbanded approximately 20 years later. So, around 1948, the KKK became available as open to all comers. Just like post Civil War KKK, as today, there have been many copy cats. When you have copy cats, you'll have people doing what is on their own personal agenda and very different from the original organization.

What I found interesting, as well as positive--is that they have not really bothered you other than verbal. I often find some people put on a 'role' around others as not to loose face or, standing among their peers but once alone they're more 'human' about things. When there is an opportunity to talk one on one, that might be the time to talk to them. It has worked for me. I ask those are so hateful towards me about their organization, history, philosophy and then I pluck common history markers, philosophy and such as points of common agreements. Sometimes, if these chaps knew the original organization KKK, they can see the mission was peace and protection for women and children. People skew the original purposes for their own personal reasons/agendas. Sitting on the porch, is a form of protection--nobody will bother you if somebody is looking. So, perhaps a quiet thank you for waiting to see you home safe might be the loop hole to start a dialog if you must. It will just put them so off balance they'll be most puzzled. The behavior they show for a negative effect, respond in a positive--means the power they have is not effective.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 1:58:59 PM

NorthernGent

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I suppose it comes down to what you are prepared to accept in your society. The British National Party (far-right) were very active in the 70s. The same hate-filled views as those commented on by the OP. During the late 70s and 80s the BNP were confronted by the Anti-Nazi league wherever the BNP campaigned. Although I'm not advocating violence it is fair to say that the ANL contributed towards the decline in BNP activities - the reason being these idiots are cowards and pick and choose their fights when the odds are stacked in their favour (hence, you have a group of them picking on a woman minding her own business) - when they were met by equal numbers of ANL they invariably ended up on the wrong side of a good shoeing.

Ignoring them is not necessarily the best option as they may see you as someone they can take the piss with and take the open invitation to do so.

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 6:31:08 PM

nefertari

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirKenin

I can tell you that anyone here who tells you "go over and deal with them" either by talking to them, inviting them over or whatever does not have a clue what they are talking about.. They are just jabbering to hear themselves speak.

These people do not rationalize. They do not need your friendship. They do not want to see you on their street. They do not want to know you exist. Period. If you try anything you will either get your head kicked in or blown clean off. They might be misfits, but they are an extremely tough crowd. If you know what is good for you you will mind your own business and not rock the boat.

Calling the cops is not going to do anything. The cops do not give a shit. They are not stupid. They do not want to screw with them either. Besides, they know they are going to be in a cell one day, out on the street the next. Somebody crying the blues because they antagonized them with flags and pissed them off is more than likely not going to get the time of day. I GUARANTEE you that a few words exchanged is not going to get the time of day. Any resulting damage to your house, and it is coming I promise, is not going to get the time of day... "lack of evidence" I promise. I have been there. I know what to expect. There is always going to be an excuse..

These guys here think they are so smart, but they really are not. You do not mess with these people. I have seen first hand how the Law works in situations such as this.. And if they DO get charged, your dead. Simple. Kiss your life, or at the very least your freedom, goodbye. They will make your life a living hell and you will wish you never even bought those stupid flags. So do the sensible thing and take them down. Like I said, nobody cares for a smarty pants making a statement. I do not even do that. I do not even use bumper stickers. Shit, around here if you put the emblem of a competing hockey team (Ottawa is the worst as Toronto and Ottawa are fierce rivals) on your car or house you get your windows smashed in and your tires slashed.. You just have to start using some common sense.

The bottom line is this. If you do not bug them, they will not bug you. They will have no reason to. So I implore you to use your head and enjoy your new home.

Bold added by me.

If I read the OP correctly, she put the flags up first then came out to see the commotion later. The commotion being the white supremacists. Doesn't sound to me like she was antagonizing anyone. However, I do think that you are truly playing into the fear factor. Maybe in Canada the cops do not give a shit, but in the US we have legislation for hate crimes. I know around here that kind of activity gets a lot of attention.

She has every right to expression as they do. She has done nothing wrong. If I were her, I would keep on doing what I'm doing. Keeping to myself, but not giving up my right to expression. Period.

But then I'm not one to back down when I've done nothing wrong. I guess she needs to decide how much attention she wants to draw to herself. The damage has already been done. I would think by taking down the flags, the "bullies" will feel some kind of power over her and may very well be emboldened by this. Just my thoughts.

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 8:20:12 PM

eruditegirl1

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SirKenin,

I take it you have never bought...sold or owned property????
A realtor has a "fiduciary duty" to his or her own client. This is the highest duty the law imposes. It is even higher than the duty owed by a physician to his or her patient. Realtors must exercise the "utmost" and "extraordinary" diligence. The duty to treat all parties fairly and honestly is also set forth in Article 7 of the Code of Ethics for Realtors. The Code of Ethics, which was effective through 1992, uses the word "fairly." Article 1 of the Code of Ethics and Standards of Practice (effective January, 1993), uses the word "honestly". Legally, there is little difference between the two words. Real estate agents, like lawyers and investment officers, are fiduciaries, meaning they are given the trust of clients and are empowered to act for them. Because of the degree of trust involved, fiduciares have always been charged, under common law, to avoid any conflicts of interest scrupulously. That's why law firms, for example, never represent both the plaintiff and the defendant in the same lawsuit.
As a fiduciary, a real estate broker is held by law to owe specific duties to his/her principal (the person who they are representing),An agent must disclose to the principal all known relevant and material information that pertains to the scope of the agency. The duty includes any facts affecting the value or desirability of the property, as well as any other relevant information pertaining to the transaction, such as the other party's bargaining position, the identity of all potential purchasers, information concerning the ability or willingness of the buyer to offer a higher price, any intent to subdivide or resell the property for a profit.Must tell Buyer everything they can find out about the Seller including the motivation for selling and any reasons the Seller may have for wanting a quick sale. Must tell Buyer everything they can find out about the property, including traffic problems, poor school system, high crime rates, etc.

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RE: Desperately seeking suggestions….. - 8/31/2006 8:27:00 PM

MrDiscipline44

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quote:

ORIGINAL: arissa

Wait, on the other hand, why should I appease them, who and what gives them the right to do what they do, say what they say?
I have to think about this, and I agree, I need to take this higher with the broker who sold me the house.
Flags stay, for now

It's called freedom of speech. You can keep the flags, they can still call you a half breed bitch. As has been said, you are being confrontational so don't start crying when they throw the next rock.

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