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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 9:29:30 AM   
Slipstreme


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quote:

Do you think income plays a factor in a M/s D/s relationship and where the power lies?


No.

In this day and age, with moderate pay, it still takes two incomes to survive. Only the rich can get by on one income. So if it takes two incomes to support the house, what argument is there over who is making the money?

I am poor, my slave is poor, so we will both be working for quite some time, even after our boys move in.

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 9:41:55 AM   
stockingluvr54


Posts: 673
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		Read this on a shithouse wall years ago....
"Life is like a shit sandwich.... The more bread ya got....the less shit ya eat!"

IMO...these words are so true. Money to me does not equal power...it equals security? There are people that view money as power and normally I personally won't "click" with that type of person at all. I can small em a mile away. I will "click" more with a person who's been down financially but who is always striving to do better? Someone who's got some goals and some work ethic...an achiever? I could care less about how much someone has but most important......what that person does with what they have? How responsible that person is? I do believe that if both parties in a relationship each have an income (no matter how lop-sided)... that would surely take some pressure off the relationship or at least eliminate some possible "money power play"? On the other hand if a partner earned their keep and worked the home/relationship with a little enthusiasm....that would/could be more than enough to offset any financial shortcommings? In other words....someone who isn't just a drone....a partner willing to put forth a little effort....then I don't think the money is all that important unless of course you don't have enough....then your back to that shit sandwich again!!!!!
 

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 9:44:22 AM   
stockingluvr54


Posts: 673
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Status: offline 		Homestead.... Good luck with the biz....your persistance will pay off.

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 10:03:38 AM   
SexyRed


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I do pretty well but I wouldn't have any problem with a sub/slave who made a LOT more than me though.
I don't know why that "intimidates" a lot of guys.


That is because you are secure in yourself, popeye. ;)  Men who are intimidated by women who make money lack esteem issues. And certain men on this thread who have complained and whined and made universal statements that "all women" judge "all men" are just pathetic. They do not realize that a woman will respect a man who earns respect, regardless of his income.

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 10:05:18 AM   
raiken


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owned1


Do you think income plays a factor in a M/s D/s relationship and where the power lies?



Ah, it seems that for the most part, people are people first before anything else when it comes to the big ole buck.  It doesn't matter what the lifestyle preference is.  It depends on the intentions, needs and desires of each individual.  i would not join with anyone who is a slacker, or a mooch, for that shows me they do not have enough respect for themselves, and are not capable of being responsible. 
 
i work a full time job and then do side jobs.  i have a busy schedule and have goals i work toward.  i would like someone of that same mindset who understands what it means to work toward a goal, hope, or dream.  In this aspect, it doesn't matter who makes more, it just matters that each can be responsible to pull their own weight. i don't require much for myself, but i do have a family to provide for and a home to pay for.
 
If a person is just down on their luck, but making their best efforts, working their butt off, (like myself-lol) than i am inclined to help if i am able.  Even if it is just helping them get a job done or something of that nature.  Here again,  i go by the honorable intentions of that person.  While i do fine on my own, i can only provide for my home and family.  Therefore i can't be with a person who would bring me more debt and expense.
 
The only time income would matter to me, is if that person wanted me to take a trip, or a vacation etc.  If i couldn't pay for myself, then i would have to decline.  i don't like to ask for anything, and i don't need much of anything.   If that person wanted to treat, then i would give what ever i could toward the bill, and then during better times would pay back the rest, if they would accept it from me.  There have been times where i have treated, and not asked for anything back, because at the time i was able.
 
i feel uncomfortable accepting help at times, i guess i still have some good ole fashioned pride to get rid of! *smile  But it just feels really good to be the one who is in the position to give.  Even if it is my last bit, for a friend in need i will give, for somehow it always comes back to me.  i don't need money to make me happy, but i do need it to survive. 

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 10:30:13 AM   
MaleModel


Posts: 65
Joined: 6/15/2006
Status: offline 		Financial Domination
 
There is a subset of Dominants to whom money means a lot......they consider that if a woman can financially control a man, that adds to the power exchange.  I've seen women write that they keep their man at home, being a "perfect wife," to increase his dependence on her.......he has to ask for money to buy things, for example, even small things for himself.
 
People who believe this think that the "old male-dominated world" included men making more money, and they are determined to reverse this.  Perhaps they are just a small minority of Dominants, but they are quite visible.

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 10:33:25 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaleModel
Financial Domination

There is a subset of Dominants to whom money means a lot......they consider that if a woman can financially control a man, that adds to the power exchange.  I've seen women write that they keep their man at home, being a "perfect wife," to increase his dependence on her.......he has to ask for money to buy things, for example, even small things for himself.

People who believe this think that the "old male-dominated world" included men making more money, and they are determined to reverse this.  Perhaps they are just a small minority of Dominants, but they are quite visible.

It's not just a fem dom/male sub thing either.  Many male doms are into financially dominating their subs.

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 10:41:09 AM   
raiken


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

I'm a small business owner who currently makes enough to get by. I'm working on building up my production capacity to do better. When women find out I don't make what they do, I tend to get judged as a loser-it's a societal prejudice.

Not by me, i am on the way to beginning my own business, everyone has to start form somewhere.  It is the effort and determination that i admire; that entrepreneurial spirit. 

So I will tend to look at some one well to do in the light of the ones before, the materialists. And yes, that's indimidating as hell to have to deal with.

If someone (mis) judges you, than i guess you can say that your situation would seperate the wheat from the tares.  It can work for your advantage in that aspect. i tend to join with those who are supportive of my goals and respect me for having them.

So I can understand why other feel the same way. Is it inseucre?  You bet. Wev'e been set up by our culture to feel that way.

Change begins from within.  It doesn't have to remain that way.  In my life, i live by my own rules and not by what society or culture dictate.  i don't care what everyone thinks. If anyone doesn't like it, well, then that is their issue, not mine. i am secure in who i am, and no one can take that away from me.  i worked hard to get where i am.  i did it on my own, without anyone's help, not because i didn't have folks around me who offered help, but because i needed to know that i can make it on my own.  It is a personal thing with me. *grin Call me stubborn, others often do. *smile  If another can't respect that about me, than i don't need them. 
 
Aside:  The one Master i serve and whom i have been friends with for many years, has a live in slave who thinks i am not a slave because i don't want to just stay home all day to simply focus on serving a Master, as she does. i told her once that it is great to enjoy your fantasy, just don't expect me or others to feel that same enthusiasm about your personal fantasy being fulfilled, for i am trying to fulfill my own dreams and desires that are best for me.  *sheesh  i am often judged because i like to work outside the home, own my own home, have a career and a business and feel productive.  In the eyes of some that makes me less of a slave.  So, talking about being misunderstood, i get it from others around me in that type of way, and usually it comes from other slaves who have much to learn about life and people...and reality.  Ask me if i care? LOL!

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 10:52:33 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

It's not just a fem dom/male sub thing either.  Many male doms are into financially dominating their subs.


While i respect that others can and do thrive in this type of setting, it would make me stir crazy. *grin i don't know how to become that dependant on another.  If i was living like that when my ex and i broke up, who knows where the children and i would be living or what quality of life we would have had, if i were not able to provide. Being financially secure, at least to know i can make it on my own, is very important for my sense of security and well being.  Even if i was involved with someone who had more than enough to where i didn't have to work, i would still wish to work anyway.  Just me *smile
 

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 11:14:38 AM   
Wildfleurs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
owned,
Next time it occurs ask them if it's the money or the way you serve the position that brings you the money. I don't doubt that you've run across some who lack confidence and are intimidated by your earning and position. But that may not be the only factor.

Is your position and work the focus of your life? Do you serve it as your 'master'? Do you project there is no place in your life to serve anyone else?

There are people who won't be intimidated and you'll meet them if you keep trying. But how would you react if they were your exact image of your "perfect Dom" and said to serve them you'd have to quit serving the high powered, high income position. Would you have the confidence and not be intimidated to make that decision?


I'm not owned1, but I wanted to respond as someone who's pretty career focused.  In order for someone to be my perfect dominant they would enjoy the fact that they own someone who has a strong and successful career, not be intimidated by it and want me to quit.

Luckily for me thats exactly how my owner is, so it works out well for us :-)

C~


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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 12:44:44 PM   
gentlethistle


Posts: 186
Joined: 10/28/2005
Status: offline 		I think that money always matters in relationships.  At the most basic level it matters that there is enough to go round.  Beyond that point I think it is about the two (or more) people's attitude to money more than the actual amounts or disparities involved. 

When people say 'money is the root of all evil' they forget that the original warning was (I believe) 'the love of money is the root of all evil'.  Thusly too with income differences...I think it is about how they are viewed and dealt with rather than the differences themselves.  If those involved are comfortable with shared (or deliberately independent) approaches to economy, risk, investment, generosity...etc etc....then I don't see that there is any problem.  If they have very different approaches to these things and are unable to reconcile differences in behaviour and comfort levels then I bet money will be a problem even if they have identical savings and earnings.

Laura

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 12:45:45 PM   
jesskitty


Posts: 185
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline 		my thought on incom is this. to a certian extent it matters. if the person is working in a minimum wage job with pay as you go telephone service as well as having trouble keeping up with bills and driving a lemon car it will be hard for you two to be able to meetup and go out things unless your comfortable for paying for everything. i think as long as the other person is self sufficent the specific level of income shouldn't matter..at least it doesn't with me, but to a certain extent since we live in a society where you have to have money to eat,travel,give gifts, etc. it does minimally.

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 12:53:21 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I don't care if someone makes a lot of money, or even has a job, as long as they have a stream of income steady enough to pay bills, with some plan for a cushion for a "rainy day", and to pursue extra-curricular fun and interests. I hope they have an occupation that interests them, and that they feel they can devote part of themselves to, though, and a bit of ambition in pursuing it. I don't have an issue with wealthy, or not. I probably do have an issue with laziness.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 9/6/2006 12:56:45 PM >

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 12:57:20 PM   
Owned1


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From: Toronto, Ontario
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owned1

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owned1

Do you think income plays a factor in a M/s D/s relationship and where the power lies?



It's a factor... but not in where the power lies.


If you might KnightofMists please expand on your thoughts

Owned


money affects the type of decisions that one is able to make.... money is just another resource that we put towards things that we want... just as we put resources to achieve money... we can turn around and use that money to gain other resources.  money is not power... it's a resource acquired.  Naturally though the more resources you have.. money time.. etc... the more you could feasible do.

But, in the contexts of my M/s relationships the power of authority is mine.... my authority will dicatate how the resources are used... where they orginate from is irrelevant.  Now for information base... I am a highly paid individual in my career.  I can very comfortable support alandra and the four little ones... if need be I could even support kyra within the confines of my house... thou the comfort level would go down (comfort level meaning disposable income).  alandra stays at home an works with the pay of love from the little ones... priceless I would say... kyra on the other hand has a signficant income in her own right.  Infact.... her disposable income provided to the house is actually more than twice maybe even three times higher than mine.  Thou I make more.. My direct financial responsibilities are much higher than the financial responsibilities that she brings to the house.  In short... thou kyra makes less money she actually contributes much more signifcantly to the resources to the comforts of the family's life.

Frankly... it doesn't matter where the money comes from.... I Make the Decisions on it's Use.  The power is in who makes the decisions... the power comes not from the earning of the money... but out of character, values, personality of a person.  My personal power that orginate within myself is what has inspired kyra to hand willingly her power of decision and give complete submission and obedience to me.  to me weak individuals rate themselves on the size of a wallet...  personally... I rate myself on the love within my life.  both the love I can give and receive...




KnightofMists, thank you for the very detailed answer.  This is exactly the discussion Master and i have had. 

Owned

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 1:01:53 PM   
Owned1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owned1
I know I have met a number of Dominants who backed off quickly when they found out how much money I made per year.  The fact I made much more than they did seemed to truly intimidate them.
I know in society today power = money and money = power.
Do you think income plays a factor in a M/s D/s relationship and where the power lies?
Owned


owned,
Next time it occurs ask them if it's the money or the way you serve the position that brings you the money. I don't doubt that you've run across some who lack confidence and are intimidated by your earning and position. But that may not be the only factor.

Is your position and work the focus of your life? Do you serve it as your 'master'? Do you project there is no place in your life to serve anyone else?

There are people who won't be intimidated and you'll meet them if you keep trying. But how would you react if they were your exact image of your "perfect Dom" and said to serve them you'd have to quit serving the high powered, high income position. Would you have the confidence and not be intimidated to make that decision?


Mercnbeth,  in fact it was Master who suggested this was the reason for the "luck" I had with some other Dominants, prior to him.  I tend to be rather naive about men I have come to think,  as I would never think of my income intimidating them.  However this was a huge factor of attraction when I met Master, my income was a bonus to him not a hinderance. 
\
In regard to serving my career, trust me I do not my life and family come first, my career only serves to permit me the comfortable life I am fortunate to have.

If it was decided I would give up my career to stay home full time then that is what would happen.  However I have tried that and was not a happy camper, I need the external stimulation, the challenges and yanno the cash is a huge bonus.

I do think however your words are great words of advise for others who may see themselves and then be able to take a look within and realign their lives.

Owned

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 1:04:47 PM   
Owned1


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From: Toronto, Ontario
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I understand your point, but I do not think you understood my second paragraph, which is not a universal, but your OP seemed to ask what we thought about D/s and money and why men may be hesitant to attach themselves to one who makes so much more. I was just giving you an idea of what some doms may think about this and their fears of making significantly less than the female in their life, asking a submissive to give up that much for a relationship with them. They maybe faced with choices they do not want to have to make.. so why get involved when they perceive a power imbalance in the wrong direction?
[/quote]

Juliaoceania,  I must appologize you are correct it is your opinion and I did not mean for my response to come across argumentative.  I did ask for opinions on the power and money dynamic and that is exactly what you offered.

Owned

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 1:11:55 PM   
Owned1


Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline 		Thank you all to who responded to my question.  The opinions are truly though provoking and insightful.  I find it interesting the majority of the first responces were mostly from women either Domme or sub/slave.  I truly reinforces in my mind there are those who do feel intimidated by money and incomes.

However the responses also reinforce the wealth of knowledge and those who truly live the lifestyle who are on cm and offer their opinions and suggestions.

Thanks to all

Owned

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 1:43:27 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyRed

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

I do pretty well but I wouldn't have any problem with a sub/slave who made a LOT more than me though.
I don't know why that "intimidates" a lot of guys.


That is because you are secure in yourself, popeye. ;)  Men who are intimidated by women who make money lack esteem issues. And certain men on this thread who have complained and whined and made universal statements that "all women" judge "all men" are just pathetic. They do not realize that a woman will respect a man who earns respect, regardless of his income.

Sexy Red, well thankyou! I like to see women making good money!
Why not? And like Fleur said having a sub who was doing very well in her career and making good money would be kind of sexy actually!
Having a sub who comes home everynight in a "powersuit" and glasses would be neat.

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 2:57:15 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
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From: New England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owned1

I know in society today power = money and money = power.

Do you think income plays a factor in a M/s D/s relationship and where the power lies?



Today, just as in days passed, money does equal power, or in the very least, helps to that end.

As for where the power in a dominant / submissive relation lies, I believe such human interaction transcends the hold of monetary importance, with perhaps a few small caveats: I believe it is wise for a dominant being to live with dignity and at least some measure of financial vitality, not only to appease the just vanity of that dragon within, but to serve as a good chess move. One's dominance can be hampered by sole reliability upon another's coffer.




< Message edited by amayos -- 9/6/2006 2:58:27 PM >

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RE: Does income matter? - 9/6/2006 5:09:24 PM   
foxxxie


Posts: 4
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From: Sydney
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slipstreme

In this day and age, with moderate pay, it still takes two incomes to survive. Only the rich can get by on one income. So if it takes two incomes to support the house, what argument is there over who is making the money?



true. I make slightly less than my husband-slave but the difference is less than $10 clear a week. We both contibute to rent and bills and necessities equally. I wouldn't be fazed in the least if he earned more than I did, I don't value money at all, money on it's own is essentially worthless and most people are in jobs they barely tolerate.

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