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Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 1:38:29 PM   
KarbonCopy


Posts: 779
Status: offline 		This is something I'd like to hear others opinions on.

I've a problem. I identify myself as submissive. Though a name is a name I'm often refered to as Slave. Doesnt mean anything but a name to me.
Now understand that I'm not a Dominant person. I can be when I have to be. Often I must take charge in my job and get things done by arranging them myself.
I have no desire to be dominant, or even get the need to be.

That being said, I have this problem.
Everywhere I look I see submissive/slaves talking about how much they love to serve, to serve makes them feel whole. To do nothing but make their Dom/me happy.
I dont relate to this.

While like any lover/partner desire to make my partner happy, I dont follow the same dicipline of service. I live to co-exist with my partner not to selflessly serve them day in and day out without any regard for myself.
I'm an only child who spend a majority of my life moving. I never had the opportunity to have many friends, I had no siblings, nobody to really grow up with, so I had myself. Most of what I know in life is how to survive alone.
This affects many aspects of my life. Especially being in a relationship. Mostly because I dont really know how to be with someone.

I like being a submissive I really do. It feels right to me. Discovering this lifestyle, feels right. Aways has since I learned about it at an early age.

But i'm not a servant.





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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 2:20:10 PM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		Damn I love this thread, but I can't answer because probably I'm a little bit like you.....so yeah up with the comments

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 2:22:10 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Hello KarbonCopy,

I am a slave and have no inner compunction to *serve* either. I don't exist to make my Master happy nor do I live to serve him and *take care* of him. He's perfectly able to that for himself.

My Master would have a good chuckle at the idea of me selflessly serving day in and day out.......I think both he and I would be able imagine the dilemmas it would raise on a daily basis........LOL

My relationship just isn't based on *service*.....it's rooted in power exchange......I live my life in my own, (slightly peculiar), way and he controls whatever he decides needs controlling, steps in when he decides I'm trundling down a dodgy path and beats me when deemed appropriate.

Regards, agirl



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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 2:36:43 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I suppose it all depends on the dynamics of an individual relationship.  I do serve my Master.  It is one of my functions.  I love doing so, and he loves receiving it.  We are not wrong for this, nor is a relationship in which all parties do not desire or require service.

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 2:40:16 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		Karbon,

I've seen your posts, and how you don't understand service.  I 'have' wondered about you.  I guess now it's time to find out more.

For what it's worth, I'm an only child.  Friends, however, are a complete foreign concept.  And happily so.  I actually do quite well in relationships, however.  I feel that my purpose is to make my partner happy.  And I do so, even if it's at the other end of the whip.  Whatever 'that person' wants is more than likely what they will get.  And more.  I don't have stated 'needs' when it comes to my relationships.  What I like I often find (or 'get') a little more surreptitiously.  I'm far more interested in my partner than myself.

Of course, I see 'pleasing' as a word that should not appear anywhere on our boards.  Anytime you have two people in a room, if one of them is not 'pleased', then the room should start to thin out.  If you are an employee, if one person or the other is not pleased, there is either a firing or a resignation.  Simply put, wanting to be pleasing means that a relationship CAN occur.

If I were to wake up tomorrow in someone else's cage, I think I could actually handle that.  In all of the years I've been around submissive women, I don't relate (to myself) to their commonalities.  I won't call them traits, because I don't think traits come in a dominant or submissive bent.  So I could never call my 'submissive' in that sense.  Probably, like you, slave.

But one thing I do know.  I could serve.  Blindly, faithfully.  Probably because my interests are not focussed on myself.  I'm certain to find myself in ways or behaviors that would be inordinately familiar and uncomfortable for me.  But, for the partner of my choosing, so be it.  I think it is in the service, not any potential reward, that I would focus.

I'm not posting this to grandstand for myself.  I'm doing this to make a point.  I can illustrate distinctly how I would submit (not my submission).  It probably won't happen; doesn't need to.

How is it that you illustrate that you can submit?  You identify as submissive, but I've never seen 'how'.  Granted, I've probably missed a post here and there.  Are you a bottom?  Is it an 'activity'?  Help a little here.

Jeff

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 2:57:09 PM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I too was confused by that concept when I first got here and identified as submissive. I knew there was a part of me that could really focus on another persons happiness and needs because I'd done it in a marriage for a very long time. It's just that I'm burned out at this point. For some people serving and being of service to others is, in and of itself, highly rewarding. They don't need to hear, and be told how appreciated they are, they just know they are doing and helping and it makes them feel good, but I don't think most people are that way.

Once you are in a relationship that is rewarding and fulfilling to you, perhaps you will feel the draw to be of service.  I am that way in any relationship when I feel close to someone, friend, lover or family member. I just WANT to do things for them because I love them so much and I want to show it, but I don't feel that way about strangers or have a general desire to serve others.



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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 3:00:20 PM   
sweetnsensual


Posts: 61
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline 		Karbon,

i'm pretty much the exact same way.  not only in the only child, moving around and not having stable and long-lasting friendships capacity, i also don't feel this burning need inside me to serve.

i don't want to be a servant.  i have a mind, i question things and i could never be on my knees in front of someone pretending they're a god or something.  i can't.  i have a backbone.  i also get sick at the thought of being so over the moon for someone to no longer care about my own heart or it's well-being.  relationships as a whole, in my eyes, should be 50/50 no matter what. 

i'm with you, being submissive feels right (with the right person) and it is for me.  i just have a mind and a spine and sometimes i come off as a *gasp* a "feminist submissive" because i use both. 

there's this great quote i once heard: "i have a vagina and a mind, i use both."  kinda got off subject but yeah...anyway.  i really don't think you have to be "loyal and blindly obey" to be a "real submissive."  i think a "real submissive" is relative and in the eye of the beholder. 

< Message edited by sweetnsensual -- 9/9/2006 3:04:19 PM >

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 3:01:26 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I was thinking about this on my walk to the gym today... if I gave up calling myself "submissive" I would still be that. If I gave up D/s I would still relate this way to whomever I was with.

I am not selfless, I get off on service though as a component of our dynamic. I love pleasing him. He loves pleasing me too, so what does this really mean? He gets me things because he has thought of my comfort, he opens doors for me, he asks what I would like for dinner, and he lets me decide on my own what to do for him. So how are we that different from each other? Loving to serve to the one you love is not a submissive action in my mind... the fact he controls me is what makes me submissive.

I think doms serve submissives too, just in different ways...just my thoughts



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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 3:09:55 PM   
ownedgirlie


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Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetnsensual

Karbon,

i'm pretty much the exact same way.  not only in the only child, moving around and not having stable and long-lasting friendships capacity, i also don't feel this burning need inside me to serve.

i don't want to be a servant.  i have a mind, i question things and i could never be on my knees in front of someone pretending they're a god or something.  i can't.  i have a backbone.  i also get sick at the thought of being so over the moon for someone to no longer care about my own heart or it's well-being.  relationships as a whole, in my eyes, should be 50/50 no matter what. 

i'm with you, being submissive feels right (with the right person) and it is for me.  i just have a mind and a spine and sometimes i come off as a *gasp* a "feminist submissive" because i use both. 

there's this great quote i once heard: "i have a vagina and a mind, i use both."  kinda got off subject but yeah...anyway.  i really don't think you have to be "loyal and blindly obey" to be a "real submissive."  i think a "real submissive" is relative and in the eye of the beholder. 

Not to veer off topic, but this post is an example of the misnomer seen all too often here, that service oriented slavery means one does not have a mind, a spine, or a care about her/his well being.  I would implore you to read some of the archive threads here, searching threads on "doormats,"  "blind obedience," and the like.  I would bet you might be surprised at what you read.

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 3:52:37 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		If serving is *doing things for another* then I am served FAR more than I ever *serve*. My Master is far more significant in MY life than I am in his....my life is threaded with his influence and control but he is self sufficient. His life would run perfectly well whether I was in it or not......mine, however, would not.

agirl

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 4:01:07 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Status: offline 		http://www.collarchat.com/m_568675/mpage_1/key_service/tm.htm#568710
On Service

You should definitely read this.

I pray for the day when people stop equating submission to service and service to submission.

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 4:04:47 PM   
KarbonCopy


Posts: 779
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx
How is it that you illustrate that you can submit?  You identify as submissive, but I've never seen 'how'.  Granted, I've probably missed a post here and there.  Are you a bottom?  Is it an 'activity'?  Help a little here.

Jeff


While I dont understand the first part of your question, I'll do my best to answer the rest. You've never seen "how" I'm submissive because I'm not submissive to you or anyone else on this board except for my Domme. Am I a bottom? yes, is it an activity? sure why not I think playing can be quite the activity.

If your suggesting though that I just say i'm submissive because it satisfies my own kink, then you're definantly heading down the wrong road. I only mention that because your last part of the question sort of implies that. I could be wrong. Lord knows Its happened before.


Now I dont mean to cast the idea that I dont do anything to please my partner. Both of us do things to make eachother happy. We help make eachothers life less lonely, more convenient, and happier.

More to my point though is, take domestic service for example. This is something that I can not bring myself to do. While there are things that have to be done in every day life, responsibilities, i'm not the type of person that can come home from work only be on the clock again for a different employer.


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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 4:05:55 PM   
sublizzie


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Joined: 5/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I pray for the day when people stop equating submission to service and service to submission.


While I am both submissive and service-oriented, I tend to agree with you. I also pray for the day when people stop equating submission with masochism.

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 4:07:11 PM   
KarbonCopy


Posts: 779
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

http://www.collarchat.com/m_568675/mpage_1/key_service/tm.htm#568710
On Service

You should definitely read this.

I pray for the day when people stop equating submission to service and service to submission.


Actually part of the reason I posted this was to see what the general masses view was on the association of the two terms. While someone can be submissive does not mean they're for lack of better words a maid as it seems to be painted all over this board.

Edit: After reading that thread, I definantly have to say its exactly how I feel.
My feelings towards the one I submit to, is very similar to the Knight kneeling for his King/Queen. A loyalty. Of course there is more to it, but thats definantly a great start.


< Message edited by KarbonCopy -- 9/9/2006 4:16:35 PM >

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 4:16:20 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		My position is that my submissive will submit to serving me outside of bedroom, than inside as well.
To have a top/bottom relationship in the bedroom does nothing for me emtionally/kink-wise.   In fact, one could even say I am more about equality when it comes to play/mutual pleasure, but that would only happen if he submits to live in a way that is pleasing to me (being thoughtful and servile) beforehand.  
So while I can understand that someone may not live to serve, he will certainly serve with grace and perhaps even find a way to enjoy it if he wants to keep me content as his girlfriend/mistress/owner.  

Edditted because KC already answered that part of question
quote:

take domestic service for example. This is something that I can not bring myself to do. While there are things that have to be done in every day life, responsibilities, i'm not the type of person that can come home from work only be on the clock again for a different employer
 So domestic service is a hard limit?  LMAO,      M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 9/9/2006 4:18:57 PM >

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 4:19:46 PM   
mstrjx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

More to my point though is, take domestic service for example. This is something that I can not bring myself to do. While there are things that have to be done in every day life, responsibilities, i'm not the type of person that can come home from work only be on the clock again for a different employer.



And this is exactly what I don't understand.  I'm not saying that 'service' equals 'housekeeping'.  What I'm pointing at is 'I can not bring myself'.  As a submissive, are there not expectations from you?  What if she wants to 'take you there'?  It just seems like 'no' could come awfully easy.

This is where I'm having difficulty with the power dynamic.

If it seems I'm attacking, please do not take it that way.  I was thinking that self-introspection was the purpose of the thread, and how to better come to terms with the thoughts and feelings of your nature.

Jeff

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 4:27:07 PM   
KarbonCopy


Posts: 779
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx

quote:

ORIGINAL: KarbonCopy

More to my point though is, take domestic service for example. This is something that I can not bring myself to do. While there are things that have to be done in every day life, responsibilities, i'm not the type of person that can come home from work only be on the clock again for a different employer.



And this is exactly what I don't understand.  I'm not saying that 'service' equals 'housekeeping'.  What I'm pointing at is 'I can not bring myself'.  As a submissive, are there not expectations from you?  What if she wants to 'take you there'?  It just seems like 'no' could come awfully easy.

This is where I'm having difficulty with the power dynamic.

If it seems I'm attacking, please do not take it that way.  I was thinking that self-introspection was the purpose of the thread, and how to better come to terms with the thoughts and feelings of your nature.

Jeff


I suppose "cannot bring myself" is a bad way of putting it.
I could just say it more harshly and say this is something that I chose not to do. I do not mean to say that I wont do the dishes, or cook once here and there (i'm not good at it).
What I mean to say is, I pull my own weight around the house, but I dont want to be a 24/7 servant.



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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 4:40:48 PM   
tricia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublizzie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I pray for the day when people stop equating submission to service and service to submission.


While I am both submissive and service-oriented, I tend to agree with you. I also pray for the day when people stop equating submission with masochism.


I'm also submissive AND service-oriented.  I couldn't agree more with both of you.  I'm wondering if anyone thinks this could be a gender issue?  As in domestics = womens work.

< Message edited by tricia -- 9/9/2006 4:52:30 PM >

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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 4:46:58 PM   
KarbonCopy


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Status: offline 		I know I dont see it as a gender thing.

It just truely makes me unhappy.


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RE: Submissive but not servant. - 9/9/2006 4:59:20 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublizzie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I pray for the day when people stop equating submission to service and service to submission.


While I am both submissive and service-oriented, I tend to agree with you. I also pray for the day when people stop equating submission with masochism.
YEP..YEP...and YEP!...I am not big into the service issues either, but I do think that when you find that special someone you take great delight in his pleasure when you make that special effort....Tempting

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