RE: Are there any feminists out there? (Full Version)

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naughtynick -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/9/2006 11:11:18 PM)

Is feminism really needed these days? It was a good cause back in the old days but is it really needed today? A lot of areas in society favor women, I think women already have equality or probably more favors than men have in society. I think men need more help than women these days to be honest. But I dont think there is a need for Men's Rights Activist either.



ready3learn -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/9/2006 11:59:13 PM)

Interesting question,

If you mean, in the sense that Women have...by and large...gotten a bad deal as western civilization has evolved, then yes, I completely identify myself as a feminist...even though I am male.

My doctor...is a Woman.  I had to see a specialist for something recently...I chose a female specialist.  If for some reason I ever need a laywer....I will hire a Woman.

All of my friends are Women.  If I ever need guidance or or help...I most certainly will ask a Woman for assistance.  Do I hold the door for men?  No, but always hold it open for Women.  97 out of 100 songs I listen to are sung by Women.  Do I value the opinion of a Woman over one of a man...yes I will...every single time. 

If there is a God...I am certian it is a Goddess...that "God" is a She...not a he.

So I guess that probably makes me a "feminist". 

mike



naughtynick -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 12:17:59 AM)

Read what it says below the image
http://img109.imageshack.us/my.php?image=40944allwomenarebitchesknifebl.jpg



marieToo -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 7:59:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

Just curious if anyone on this site identifies as a feminist and, if so, how you square that with your D/s principles.


I think it would depend on how exactly 'feminism' is defined.  If it means equal rights for everyone in society regardless of gender, then I would be a feminist. 

If it means that females are superior or treated better than men for some reason, I am not a feminist.

I am of course separating my person inclination for PE in my personal life, with American society.  "Feminism" (equal rights in American society) would not apply for me when I square it against my "Ds Principles".  But to me, its two different worlds.  In my personal Ds life, I dont want a "vote". In free society, however, of course I believe that females should vote and have equal pay for equal work etc.




MistressLorelei -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:18:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

I do wonder what symbol, sign or clarion call will mark the final success of feminism in the West?


Equality



MistressLorelei -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:22:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ready3learn

Interesting question,

If you mean, in the sense that Women have...by and large...gotten a bad deal as western civilization has evolved, then yes, I completely identify myself as a feminist...even though I am male.

My doctor...is a Woman.  I had to see a specialist for something recently...I chose a female specialist.  If for some reason I ever need a laywer....I will hire a Woman.

All of my friends are Women.  If I ever need guidance or or help...I most certainly will ask a Woman for assistance.  Do I hold the door for men?  No, but always hold it open for Women.  97 out of 100 songs I listen to are sung by Women.  Do I value the opinion of a Woman over one of a man...yes I will...every single time. 

If there is a God...I am certian it is a Goddess...that "God" is a She...not a he.

So I guess that probably makes me a "feminist". 

mike



I think you could be defined not only as a feminist, but also a female supremacist. Not that that's a bad thing. <smiles>



catize -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:22:25 AM)

quote:

I do wonder what symbol, sign or clarion call will mark the final success of feminism in the West?  


When we no longer feel compelled to have discussions about it.
When the word 'feminist' is no longer a necessary part of our vocabulary.



angelic -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:23:21 AM)

Where's jessicapowers? 



catize -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:25:52 AM)

That person is a hater, not a feminist. 



angelic -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:27:04 AM)

catize... unfortunately, i believe that there are "femnists" that are haters... (i'm not saying all... but a great many) AND it's only my opinion.



abytchgoddess4u -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:31:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure
Just curious if anyone on this site identifies as a feminist and, if so, how you square that with your D/s principles.


I'm definitely  a feminist. Have been all my life, lucky to be raised that way...[:D] It squares easily with my D/s principles. I don't believe in female superiority, only my superiority. As a human, not simply a woman.



MistressLorelei -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:36:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

catize... unfortunately, i believe that there are "femnists" that are haters... (i'm not saying all... but a great many) AND it's only my opinion.


There are haters in every segment of society. Because she/he may have been a feminist who was way out there, doesn't mean that is the norm.  Feminism seems  to have a negative connotation to many who deem a feminist a radical.  I don't view thinking that one gender, color, or nationality is deserving to be an equal member of society across the boards makes someone a hater.  The "radicals" who brought about feminism should never have had to take a stand to begin with.  Human beings are human beings and "feminism" shouldn't have to exist now or historically.  But it does, and likely will for a very, very long time.



amayos -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:38:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

I do wonder what symbol, sign or clarion call will mark the final success of feminism in the West?


Equality


Uh huh.



angelic -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:51:49 AM)

What is equality?  Is it equal when, in a divorce, the mom gets custody of the little ones, simply because she is female?  Is it equal when 2 people committ the exact same crime..one committed by a woman, the other a man... who is going to get the longer sentence?  i am not a feminist (lol, duh)... but i do believe in equality in many things... true equality.  When was the last time you saw a Master/Dom taking their slave/submissive to court for failing to abide by the contract that they willingly signed?  (You don't because of course those contracts cannot be upheld in court).  When was the last time you saw a slave/submissive running to court for being abused when the relationship ended and the courts siding with her?

On the other hand, i do not wish to stand to pee... [8D]  i very much enjoy being the smaller of the species.  i very much enjoy my role as a woman in this society. 

i am more than likely not making my point very clear... i often have trouble getting my thoughts down properly with the intent and meaning.

Again, (i hate to have to reiterate this all the time) this is only my opinion and how i feel.  i, of course, do not speak for anyone but myself.



catize -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:56:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

catize... unfortunately, i believe that there are "femnists" that are haters... (i'm not saying all... but a great many) AND it's only my opinion.


angelic,
I accept that it is your opinion. 
I believe it is important to distinquish the difference between female supremecist and feminist. I don't like being lumped in with the former group at all. 
The quest for gender equality should not be based on hate. Any cause that negates the rights of any other group becomes just as intolerable as what they are fighting for or against.




gentlethistle -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:57:18 AM)

Yes, I self identify as a feminist. And, no, I can't square it with the D/s at all.

Laura



julietsierra -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 8:58:25 AM)

I do my job and don't expect to be paid less for it than a man doing the same job simply on the basis of the fact that he's male and has a family to support. I have a family to support and expect the same consideration with the exception of length of time on the job and all that other stuff.

I have a Master's Degree and it never crossed my mind that I might be excluded from the educational opportunities at my alma mater because I'm a woman and women just can't "handle" the stress of all that work. I never had to crawl under seats in the back of auditoriums in order to learn something as women used to have to do. I never had to use my first initial verses my first name in order to be accepted to the major of my choice, and then fight the battles that would come when I arrived and they saw that I was very definitely not male. (as the Asst Principal of my high school had had to do when she was in college)

And above all, I reserve the right to make choices for my life even if they do not fit the current expectations of society. Whether that would be to get a job and have a career (as was the case for my mother) or to stay at home to take care of my children (as I did when I was married.)

And when it comes to D/s, I reserve the right to make a decision for my life that includes submitting to a male, even if I am considered a doormat, a dinosaur and ridiculously stupid by the vanilla people out there.

Feminism, to me, involves being able to choose to live my life the way that works for me, without a stigma attached to it by people who are NOT living my life.

And personally, I think men should have that freedom as well. While we often think that men have always had all the choices, I don't think that too many men out there actually feel the freedom to stay home with kids while their wives work. I think that there are a LOT of men out there who feel the stigma of having the woman in their lives make more money than they do (and interestingly, many of us "feminists" continue to hold them to that standard). And to give my ex, and every other male out there doing this his due, I never knew the stress he went through in order to provide us with a nice home until I had to provide for my family on my own. I commend them all for this. And I hope for them to have choices too. But most of all, I hope for them to feel the confidence in making those choices, and the support of the females in their lives when they do so.

I suppose it's feminism... but really, I like to think of it all as self-actualization. However each of us choose to live our lives, I pray we'll all have the courage and the freedom to do so.

juliet



angelic -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 9:00:53 AM)

Thank you caitize... i used jessicapowers more as a joke than anything else (because she truly is laughable and riduculous, imo).  Yet, she gets the attention she seeks each and every time.  That was off thread, but i wanted to explain myself a bit more.



abytchgoddess4u -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 9:12:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos
I do wonder what symbol, sign or clarion call will mark the final success of feminism in the West?


When these things exist in all societies...

Full and complete reproductive rights (including the right to safe, legal abortion, access to contraception, quality prenatal care, and birth wishes respected{along with lessening the amount of unwarranted surgery, ie-c-sections and hysterectomy}), adequate maternity leave, equal pay, and freedom to walk the streets alone at ANY time of day or night, etc...

When these things do NOT exist in any society...

sexual harassment, street harassment, discrimination, incest and rape, boundaries based on social class, race, culture and religion, genital circumcision, patriarchy, stereotyping, objectification, sexual objectification and oppression, the glass ceiling issue in developed economies, etc...





MasterFireMaam -> RE: Are there any feminists out there? (9/10/2006 9:19:07 AM)

I, as well as a lot of women here, consider myself a Feminist. Of course, as the one who is in control, it is easier for this to be accepeted. However, many of the Feminists I know are submissives or slaves. Some people mistake that choice of role with NOT being a Feminist. That's not true at all. Being a Feminist is about celebrating that we have a CHOICE in the role we take, not about hating men or about being superior.

There's a difference, in my book, between being a Feminist and being a Female Supremacist. An FS believes that women are inherently superior, and that men are inherently inferior, jut because on their respective sexes. As with all Supremacist theories, it takes a few truths about traits (such as women are usually the nurturers and caretakers) and skews them out of proportion and states them as fact (such as ONLY women can be nurturers and caretakers, thus men are inferior because they lack this important ability).   One view (Feminism) celebrates that we are more than some say we are simply because we, as women, contribute more than it is said we do and that we should be allowed to contribute in a way that highlights our abilities. The other view (Female Supremacy) assumes that because we have different talents, we are then better than men because our talents are clearly better.   Master Fire



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