RE: Our great nation is facing an epidemic

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RE: Our great nation is facing an epidemic - 9/19/2006 6:25:38 PM

gooddogbenji

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RepublicanBDSM

And why is it wrong to use whatever means necessary to break those who we capture?

Didn't read the rest of this thread.

They're doing the same, and it is wrong. hmmmmmmmm.....

Yours,

benji

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Post #: 81

RE: Our great nation is facing an epidemic - 9/19/2006 6:37:52 PM

Amaros

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uhhh, caitlyn, sweetheart, the CIA didn't think it was necessary to invade Iraq. The military didn't think it was necessary to invade Iraq. The only people who thought it was necessary to invade Iraq were the ideologues (the ones who didn't want to hear the intelligence): Rumsfeld, Cheney, and their marionettes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Just because you and I don't know why it was "necessary" to invade Iraq, doesn't meant that it wasn't.

When the CIA and military intel thought is was a good idea to bomb an asprin factory in the Sudan that was surrounded by heavy traces of precursor chemicals for Sarin gas, the neo-pubs called it wagging the dog.

Damn CIA, whose side are they on anyway?

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Post #: 82

RE: Our great nation is facing an epidemic - 9/19/2006 9:05:18 PM

Lordandmaster

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They've made their share of mistakes, but the more you read, the less blameworthy they appear than their superiors in the White House.

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RE: Our great nation is facing an epidemic - 9/19/2006 9:31:11 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

Nixon wasn't all that bad a president really - insane maybe, a paranoid schizophrenic perhaps, but I think his heart... well, I think he had one anyway.

Hopefully, they've overplayed this one, you can only get away with acting like THE SHIT for so long - at some point, you gotta deliver the goods. Lincoln, lol, now he was a smart guy.

I studied the Vietnam War as my speciality in college, and I started to really understand Nixon. He probably should have been on some sort of medication for intense paranoia and other psychiatric issues. Regardless, he is one of the most fascinating presidents of the 20th century.

The only reason he did anything in his presidency was to maintain his own personal power. But the things he did do are staggering in scope. He reopened relations with China, which had stagnated for years since before the Korean War. He ended the Vietnam War (and sold out his own party) for his own purposes. His knee-jerk reaction to Watergate was to insist it be covered up, and when that didnt work, it was let out that he taped every conversation into to Oval Office. The list goes on.

I actually started to like the guy after I studied him. I would not have let him babysit my children, but I can read about him all day long.

I was raised like most people in the United States to believe that Lincoln was a great president because he freed the slaves. Actually, the war had nothing to do with slavery. He only penned the Emancipation Proclamation, which only freed the slaves in the states who seceeded from the union, after France and England refused to support his side of the civil war.

I am extremely happy about what he accomplished, I simply am not one of those running dog jingoists who think his feces has no odor.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

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Post #: 84

RE: Our great nation is facing an epidemic - 9/19/2006 9:46:23 PM

Amaros

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Ah Nixon, he was a fascinating character.

True, Lincoln was a politician, and as the late great Doctor Thompson observed, you can't be one of those without some shit on your soul - I did read part of a speech where he promised to repatriate the slaves to Africa after the Union had won at one point to rally support for the election.

Anyway, he also had some very interesting things to say about corporations and corporate influence, and was among a handful of republican presidents who warned us about the military industrial complex. Guess the "party of Lincoln" doesn't actually read any of his stuff - approved and edited hagiographies probobly.

I remember quoting some of his speeches unatrributed in the NYT political forums, and being accused of quoting chairman Mao, or Marx or somebody by this think tank shill (this one actually admitted it) - when I told him it was Lincoln, he blew a gasket, started calling me a plagarist, etc. (I did use quotation marks), it was sad really, never seen such a frenzy of subject changing.

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RE: Our great nation is facing an epidemic - 9/21/2006 1:04:37 PM

NorthernGent

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I'd like to see evidence of this trade, could you name your sources?

I would also like to know how the invasion is propping up life styles? Don't say oil, on average Britain's oil products are the most expensive in Europe thanks to taxes, which renders pointless going to war for cheap oil only to raise prices through tax.

My guess is that you have made a knee jerk reaction without looking at the evidence.

I will hold my hands up to this one - I can't find a source on the internet to support my claim that the UK is the main beneficiary of EU/US trade. However, it wasn't a knee-jerk reaction - I have read this from a couple of different sources.

Propping up lifestyles is simple economics - economic growth = the majority of the population benefit from that growth. A downturn in the US economy means a downturn for the world economy and a resulting reduction in personal wealth. Similarly, trade = profit = economic growth = propping up lifestyles - so guaranteeing trade with the US serves this purpose.

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RE: Our great nation is facing an epidemic - 9/21/2006 1:17:41 PM

NorthernGent

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If you are accustomed to a certain standard of living then that standard of living is based on the services and products that create economic growth in the economy. Oil has being a major player in the US economy in providing profit and growth. Britain benefits as follows:

1) Economic dowturn in the US economy = economic downturn around the world = less money in the British economy to go around = reduction in personal wealth for Britons.

2) As stated, but without a supporting link so take it or leave it, Britain is the main beneficiary of US/EU Trade so support for their policies = support for our economy through safeguarding current and future trade.

Or am I wrong and we're there for the special relationship? You know, the relationship that sort of started around 1940 when Britiain needed help and as a result we've been paying the special price ever since? Very special.

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RE: Our great nation is facing an epidemic - 9/21/2006 2:49:53 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

If you are accustomed to a certain standard of living then that standard of living is based on the services and products that create economic growth in the economy. Oil has being a major player in the US economy in providing profit and growth. Britain benefits as follows:

1) Economic dowturn in the US economy = economic downturn around the world = less money in the British economy to go around = reduction in personal wealth for Britons.

As holds true of everyone elses trade. A down turn in trade serves no one so what makes this a specifically British interest?

2) As stated, but without a supporting link so take it or leave it, Britain is the main beneficiary of US/EU Trade so support for their policies = support for our economy through safeguarding current and future trade.

You're building castles in the air here.

Or am I wrong and we're there for the special relationship? You know, the relationship that sort of started around 1940 when Britiain needed help and as a result we've been paying the special price ever since? Very special.

Paying what price? Britain refused Marhall aid to remain free of US conditions. Britain refused to fight in Vietnam under Wilson and Heath rejected the idea of a special relationship insisting Britain's relationship with Europe was more important. I admit that some prime ministers aka Thatcher and Blair in particular seemed to believe one existed.