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Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/24/2006 9:33:24 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		The “watered down BDSM” thread got me to thinking about how my Daddy and I practice WIITWD so far in our dynamic. It is such a personal thing between the two of us. I guess at the end of the day it is the way we want to live our lives, and although we may want to socialize with others like us, they do not go home with us everyday. We have our structure that works for us. We have not built a lot of rituals either (as of yet, but that is up to him). We are pretty laid back individuals.

If he wanted me to climb around on all fours, I would do that. If he wanted to parade me about like a dog and make me bark, I would do that. If he wants me to serve his guests in a graceful way, I will do that too. He hasn’t wanted these things from me…yet.  I see the value of service submissives to their owners, and I see the beauty in the “Old Ways”, but not everyone chooses to live this way. For some of us it is not about what others think, expect, or desire to see from our dynamic. I know my Daddy really does not care if his way of doing things is acceptable to others. He does not care if others think he coddles me. He does not care because he is the Dom, and he decides what will be and how we do things.

I think that some out there have the opinion that if others keep to themselves and do not join every group in their area, becoming lifestyle advocates, running munches or at least attending them, well these are not “real” D/s dynamic people. I think that they are allowed to their opinion mind you, I am just not sure why people being dominant and submissive in their own relationship doing it their own way is so offensive?

I do not give much thought to the Old Ways, because they are not reflective of my cultural upbringing, but more importantly, they are not reflective of how my dominant chooses to live. I think others that keep traditions alive do a wonderful service to the community at large, a community that I do not belong to, yet. He belongs somewhat, but it does not impact what he desires to do with his personal life, which is based upon the freedom to do what he wants. He is the Dominant, he makes the decisions… Others do not impact that in what he does with me. If he wants to be romantic, he is. If he wants to be honorable and chivalric, he is. If he wants to kiss my head instead of beat me silly, he will. It is his choice.

Those who tell the stories of a culture or subculture have a lot of power within it. Those who keep traditions alive have an extremely important role, but no culture is a static thing, they are plastic, evolving, and fluid… and I think this is something that those who keep the traditions of the Old Ways see, and there is no way to stop it. The internet opened a world of possibilities for people like me to find a relationship structure that works. I am so glad it did.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt
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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/24/2006 9:46:36 PM   
knees2you


Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

"Their is only one way to stop the Pain and He is waiting to do just that."
 
I use to be 24/7 into Bdsm, But I thought about something.
Do I want to be a Slave and not be Legally married?
Or do I want to be Legally married, and have fun doing it!
I believe sometimes we run from the truth because we are affraid it will takes us out of our Culture.
 
quote:

"Clean up Your own backyard, before You go knocking on Your Neighbors door."

 
Ant, & LilBecque

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/24/2006 9:50:27 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		i am sure that people in Our local scene marvel at Master being that ... as He doesn't come across as overly "Domly" and He certainly isn't overbearing or domineering. He is a very laid back Australian Man ... and that's just the way i love Him! W/we both have wicked senses of humour and as He is 15 years younger than me (OK i like them younger and He likes them older so this is a perfect match!), there are times when He acts the fool and i pretend to be the stern Mommy type and W/we both laugh O/our heads off! I was also much better known for My Dominant persona than my sub side until Master moved here to live 24/7, so that took people aback too. After taking bets of "how long will it be till she says 'Get your own damn dinner'" nearly 3 years ago, they're getting used to it now.

But what is at the core for me is the fact that with a word or a glance, He can pull me into line when i am working myself up into a temper (even when it's PMT-induced and that's saying something!). No one else can do that (no, not even Mother LOL! In fact she usually makes me worse). And i know that the decisions i have empowered Him to make are in my very best interests. So every moment of the day whatever my physical body might be doing, or even when I am acting in My Dominant persona, He is Master and i am His sub/slave. That's how W/we do WIITWD and that's how W/we want it to stay. Thanks for an interesting post julia.

Mistress Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/24/2006 9:58:31 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Angel and I do not really worry much about how anyone else would view our relatonship. I am in charge, he is mine, and we are happy.  If someone from the outside thinks I'm "too soft" or our D/s relationship is watered down... then they are welcome to their opinion.  However the likelihood that that is going to change how he and I opt to live out lives is slim. I respect how people choose to change the lifestyle to fit their needs. Once you find your comfy dynamic, what everyone else thinks is ratehr immaterial.  In my humble opinion of course *smirk*

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/24/2006 10:08:12 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		People by and large are judgmental.  The question is, will you let that affect you, and to what degree?

I certainly do not need to belong to a local BDSM community or fit anyone else's "ways" to validate my submission to my Master, nor does he need to be active in the community to have such a strong commanding authority over me..  I do things for him I never in my life would have fathomed doing. I am totally devoted to pleasing him.  He sees me as quite strong and extremely submissive.  And that's all the validation I need.  I have received plenty of commentary from others, much of it negative.  And 100% of the time it is from people who do not know me remotely as intimately as my Master does, yet they seem to know what's best for me :)


(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/24/2006 10:33:48 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Yes ownedgirlie, even if I allowed it to bother me, (which it doesn't) it doesn't bother him...smiles. I was just thinking about how many of us have never been to a lifestyle event, or whatnot to even compare WIITWD to how others do it. I guess reading the other thread got me to start considering if there were a lot like my Daddy and me, doing it for our own gratification, and not considering how other people do things for the most part. There is nothing wrong with socializing mind you, or making that social life a large focus of your life. Different people have different needs. Some people are just better at social networking than others.



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/24/2006 10:49:55 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I understand.  I personally have not been to lifestyle events.  Quite honestly, I am so busy I have little time for socializing outside the close friends I already have these days.  Master doesn't have a huge interest and is busier than I.  So it's likely these events are not in our near future, but one never knows.  I have permission to attend events, but not the schedule for it at this time.  But, as you have said, this in no way effects my level of submission to him, despite what a third party might think.

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/24/2006 10:56:52 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Rarely have I seen the actual RT community bother with telling people how they have to display their dynamic, truth be told those who are actually active RT that I know are far more interested in discussing the various ways they have found so that maybe they will find something someone else does that makes sense to them and they can use it. People tell people what they hove found to be true and unfortunately people feel threatened by that and place the "This is how it is supposed to be" label on them rather than the originator being the one saying it.


Most of the folks I know say outright THIS IS HOW I DO IT and it works for me lets see what common ground things seem to apply accross the board with all of us or most of us so that we can discuss what makes these relationships work, and what makes these relationships fail. Then when someone leaves that class that is not secure in what they have as a knowledge or experience base they start to preach the things they heard as gosple truth. It was never the original speakers intent, but some peole who heard them are taking it and given it a power and life of it's own.

I happen to know the man who gave the definitions Mercandbeth posted in the other thread, he's an incredible man and he has his beliefs and they serve him well, he tells people flat out this is not the only way it is my way and it works for me and it might work for you as well. (Note Mercandbeth did not do what I spoke of above and take this mans thoughts and post them as the gospel truth they simply posted them for consideration.)

The people I see trying the "One True Way" crap tend to be those who come into the community with a little online only time, get involved a little bit in the community and when they find someone who has a long verifiable experinece, they latch onto their teachings and adopt them whole. They become very invested in the teachings, and because that's what Master X from _____ says that is the one true way, it has to be he's been around for 40 years.

Meanwhile Master X who has actually been around for 40 years is looking on in horror as this newbie is using his name to somehow build this one true way idea that Master X never even began to think of in that fashion. Master X said "This is the way I was taugh and this is what works for me and mine. We have a history and a tradition and some folks are suited to our ways and others are not." I tend to see the One True Way folks in the possitions of self appointed experts and leaders of groups they formed and cull out those who might challenge them.

Now I'm not saying that there are not folks who are in the RT community that are judgemental but if you stick around a little while you'll find they tend to marginalize themselves pretty effectively once their little pond gets invaded by a few folks who have been around and gone to some of the larger events and listened to some of the speakers out there who present at them.
The ones who originate the things we repeat time and time again, are often very upset at how people use it.
David Stein has said several times SSC grew legs and ran away from what it started as and it somehow became a club to beat people over the head with who were doing things that David and the other folks who were there when it was proposed as a credo for the community, would have had no problem with. I can't think of a single national presenter who I've ever heard ever telling folks that they have to do it this way.
What I have always heard from them has been:
This is what I have found that works for me and mine.
This is the way I organize the ideas of what we do.
These are some of the problems I ran into when I was doing it this way, that you may want to watch out for.

The harshest thing I ever hear from the people I know nationally is "I'm avoiding that person what they do doesn't fit into my moral structure, so I choose not to associate with them." (or words to that effect)





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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/24/2006 11:30:40 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		Another good time to say live and let live.  My Dom is very secure in what He does and although we occassionally have a difference in opinion He is Dom and i either submit or move on.  Since moving on does not appear to be an option either of us particularly want it behoves us to work out our difference.  Or at least give it a try.  What works for others is unlikely to work for us unless we adapt it to our needs and wants.


diamond

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"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 12:09:00 AM   
Owned1


Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline 		I agree,  what or how I practise BDSM with Master is up to him.  I am always amazed at a group who profess to be open and accepting of kink and others can be so judgemental at the same time.

So long as I am not forcing my thought and opinions on others as the only truth what is the problem.  In the forums there are many who come seeking advise or thoughts of others in the life, in return thoughts and suggestions are made.  However they are offered to be taken or not.  How I entered into this wonderful world of kink is not how anyone else will enter it, nor will they have the same journey I had.  However at the end of the day if we are all enjoying where we are today without causing negative harm to others what is the problem.

If a a dynamic works for those in the dynamic where is the harm?

Great question.  I look foward to reading the responses.

Owned

_____________________________

~~in His Chains i am free~~

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 1:50:14 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		greetings
 
what is WIIDWS i hope i have that right please do tell
 
mons

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 2:02:08 AM   
Kahri


Posts: 70
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		I believe that it stands for "What It Is That We Do."

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 4:25:05 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline 		Julia, your post points out that many don’t follow the classic lifestyle rules. Yes, you are right, times have changed to where women have vibrant careers and social lives outside of the home. I have similar feelings to the way you describe what you and Sinergy follow. It may seem from some of my posts that I would be an easy Dom, but, trust me, I know exactly what I’m doing as I suspect Sinergy does, too.

There is only one dynamic we all work with and that is domination. Usually the sub wants to be dominated physically with whippings and that does not have to be so complicated that a whole cult of rules spring up around it. Sure, I can make her do all sorts of ritual submissive things to get her whippings, but I don’t have to extrapolate that into rituals that are always in place.

If I care for a submissive, I’m going to treat her with respect because it bonds us even more is the truth of the matter. We are going to be trusting friends above the D/s dynamic. We are going to laugh, debate and do all the fun things vanilla couples do.

I feel confident enough in my personality that I can be in control without the nuances of constant D/s rules. That is the secret. She is going to willingly fall into this spiraling, gravity defying relationship and be every so much more my slave because of it. She is going to work harder for me when we play and in any other way I desire. She is going to be my naked, crawling on the floor, whipped, Master loving slave, enduring willingly what I’m sure any 24/7 ritual following slave would appreciate.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 4:28:25 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I have been to two lifestyle events.  After those experiences I can live happily if I never attend another one.  Rude and tacky best describes my experiences.  It was funny, when after one of the munches a few people approached me and said "this really isn't typical of our munches, we've never done this before, we don't want to give you this impression."  Yeah, right.  Too late.


< Message edited by KatyLied -- 9/25/2006 4:29:14 AM >

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 5:15:12 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

many don’t follow the classic lifestyle rules.

Can you please post a link to these rules? I'd like to see if I am following them or not.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 5:35:55 AM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Julia -
 
A couple of things:
 
As far as the coidification and standardization that is referred to by many people as "The Old Ways" - there was and is no such beast... the groups in "the old days" were too scattered and diverse and not associated with or standardized to one another.
 
That is a common misoncenption and HUGE myth in our communities.
 
2. Screw what anyone thinks about your relational dynamic relative to public issues... just be true to WIIT YOU D

~J

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 5:39:32 AM   
pqwinny


Posts: 117
Joined: 6/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

If I care for a submissive, I’m going to treat her with respect because it bonds us even more is the truth of the matter. We are going to be trusting friends above the D/s dynamic. We are going to laugh, debate and do all the fun things vanilla couples do.



This sums it up for me and my Sir.  We are a couple and thensome because of D/s.  The mutual respect, devotion, admiration and understanding that permeates our relationship blows the socks off anything i've ever known in a vanilla context...and even the so-called vanilla aspects of our relationship are head and shoulders above what they appear to the outside world because of what is unseen that binds us. 

i'm no expert on the rules of how all this works or should work in some people's estimation, but i'm pretty sure we are not abiding by them...and we are perfectly content and each well gratified.



_____________________________

I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.
-Albert Einstein

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 5:46:54 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Well to clarify, I don't count Munches as events, those are Munches. For events I usually am speaking about weekend runs such as TES Fest NYC, Beat me in St Louis, Fulson Fringe SF California, Southwest Leather Conference Phoneix AZ, Southeast Leatherfest Atlanta GA, Orlando Bash, The Master/ slave Conference D.C.

Will you run into a few rude people there? Sure you will but you'll find many more that are knowledgeable, reindly and willing to share experiences and stories of what has worked for them and what has not. Along with presentations on techniques of SM and bondage, History of the lifestyle, Spirtual views on the lifestyle, techniques of establishing and working in the D/s or M/s dynamic etc.

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 5:47:36 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		If you were the only person in town who drove a diesel car, and everyone said you should switch to petrol(gas) to be like them, would you do it?

E

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RE: Different Ways Of Expressing WIITWD - 9/25/2006 5:50:36 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

There is only one dynamic we all work with and that is domination.


With that one sentence you hit the nail squarely on the head.
 
And I think that one sentence also accurately reflects what it is most of us "old timers" are concerned with when you see debates raging across the boards about the "I do it my way and that's ok" versus the "one true way" concepts.
 
While some of the old timers may be hung up on the rituals and strict protocols I believe most are hung up on those two little words and the younger set confuses this with being hung up on a set style of doing things.
 
D/s or M/s (which I think of as a more spiritual and higher developed form of D/s) is based on just what the title implies, dominance and submission. The dominant dominates and the submissive submits, plain and simple.
 
No "I am giving you  an amazing gift" no "do what I want or you will be dominating yourself because I'll leave" not "I am helpless and stupid so tell me how to wipe my butt" no list of "I must haves".
 
Yes we all have our limits, desires and expectations and should state them up front and expect to find a partner who respects them.
 
We, the so called old timers (from my perspective) object to an only a few things in reality.
 
The first would be (right or wrong) they have a fairly well defined sense of what a submissive or a dominant is.
 
 A submissive (to most of this group) is one who obeys the dominant whether or not they care to do what was ordered, they do it in order to please the dominant. A submissive does not manipulate the dominant to get what they want, it is about what the dominant wants. This does not mean the submissive never gets want they want, generally they often do, but on the dominants terms. Not because they have whined, acted up, bitched or because they deserve it because they have bestowed this "gift" of submission. I am not stating submission cannot be thought of as a gift but under those thought processes the domination is a gift as well.
 
A dominant(to most of this group) is one who is obeyed by the submissive, they are careful and conscientious of their property and expect to be obeyed but they also do not expect said property to need to be molly coddled. They tend to be confident and yes demanding of their submissive but also are quite demanding of and in control of themselves.
 
Right or wrong most of this group (I include myself here) tend not to be tolerant of Sams or do me subs, to them this is not true submission, this is topping from the bottom. When they see someone who labels themselves Dom or Master who tolerates behavior that they would correct severely or walk away from they label the dom not a "true" dom and the sub not a "true" sub.
 
OK, so old timers are not as tolerant of these folks as the younger set this does not make them horrible or abusive. Just of their own opinion about things.
 
My owners and I fit into the old timers set quite well, thank you. Yet we do not have fancy rituals, we laugh, tease, play, eat together and are each others best friends. Most of you have read some of what my life is like and I recall seeing the word spoiled a few times; no one could consider me abused, truth is I am one happy individual.
 
The second would be the masses of folks stating" do want you want and call it whatever makes you feel comfortable about yourself"; there is a very valid reason for this that many have went over time after time. We use labels as a starting point to know a person, not the final definition of that person but a starting point.
 
Everybody can jump in and state this does not work in bdsm but it does if everybody practices it; think about it, if you are looking for a physician you look up physicians first then you narrow it down to ear, nose and throat, then you can narrow it down to one who specializes in cancer of those organs, then you go through them until you find one you like. If he listed himself as a veterinarian because he was comfortable with that and to hell with what it actually meant he would only have himself to blame for the waiting room full of horse manure, you certainly would never have found him when you started looking for a doctor.
 
 
Edited to add i agree with Archer, if asked most old timers will give you their opinion but i have very rarely seen them try to force their ways on another. 


 
 

< Message edited by twicehappy -- 9/25/2006 6:15:04 AM >

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

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