RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (Full Version)

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Amaros -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 4:06:15 PM)

Who, me?




juliaoceania -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 4:29:37 PM)

Yes, I did not understand




Amaros -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 5:17:10 PM)

Well, I'm not what you might call an "experienced dom", I have very liitle experience in terms of formal, explicit D/s, but I have much experience in the darker side of human nature - just stuff that, ya know, happens, and I'v had the opportunity to observe people under all manner of stress, pain, and compromise that one usually only sees in the movies. I've personally been reduced to my psychological core, stripped of my illusions (most of them) and I'm in pain right now that I believe would make a confirmed masochist blanch - I understand many of these things on a level of personal experience.

At times, I watched, other times I participated, and it was at times confusing, to see somone enjoying something that they weren't supposed to be enjoying maybe, or enjoying it but wrenched by conscience, guilt - seen people literlaly destroyed by guilt, or knowledge of the risks they exposed themselves too, and I've seen people die - both quickly, and very, very slowly from a variety of circumstances.

In here, on the boards, one typically see's the people who have it together for the most part, they may indulge in some very edgy scenes, but ultimately, most of you are under control, even if it's transparent.

There are many, many more however, who are not online, unmentored and unmonitored, at the mercy of forces, internal or external, larger than themselves - real basket cases, you might say, or at the very least, working without a net in the most primal sense imaginable, without restriction or heed for basic health and safety, with no thought of tomorrow.

It might sound romantic, all this savage grace, but in my experience it's mostly stressfull, psychologically damaging, and ultimately fatal, even to the strongest of the strong.

I've given it some thought over the years, I've seen the expressions on the faces of people who thought they had nothing to live for staring down the barrel of a loaded gun - I've stared down the barrel of one or two myself, and it's been a very rare experience for me to see anyone who, when it came to the choice - wouldn't rather live, if only for one more minute. I've also seen that particularly epiphany come too late to do any practical good.

I'm not sure I'm making any sense here, or answering your question, but it seems to me that to be part of a community, any community, including the BDSM community, that one implicitly assumes certain responsibilities to other members of that community.

Where that begins and ends is often a matter for debate of course.

For myself, I can think back to one or two people I might've knocked some sense into, but didn't bother to try because it wasn't convenient at the time to my sense of self preservation - now of course, my primary responsibility is to my children, but I can't help thinking of what became of certain people guilty only of loving others without equivocation, hesitation or contrition, and whether there is anything I could have done for them, and whether it would have been worth the effort, regardless of the consequences, to try and keep them out of trouble long enough to get a grip.

Part of the problem is, I learned very early on that death is a riddle I'm in no rush to solve, though I contemplate it now and again to put things back into perspective. There is a certain sick fascination watching someone hurl themselves towards it without compunction, but there is no satisfaction in it.




candycoatedtoxin -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 5:23:31 PM)

I don't know if I need to be the RESCUER per se, but the PROTECTOR is in my blood. That is the only reason that I would take on a 24/7 relationship as my recent ex and I tried a few months back. To have the ultimate say was, for me, a way of weeding out threats to the most precious thing in my life.




Sinergy -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 5:25:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

As to the questions in general terms, people like to be the rescuer because it gives them a sense of purpose and fulfillment in being a facilitator to someone else in need. Defender of the weak, bringing justice to the wicked, yadda yadda yadda.



Hello A/all,

I had to struggle with this most of my life.  What finally ended up happening is I found a way to help other people without being emotionally involved in their process, story, or anything else.

It was a difficult lesson to learn, but the old adage "Give a person a fish and you feed them for one night, teach a person to fish and you feed them for a lifetime" applies.  I want the person I am helping or supporting to be better and more independant and more powerful when I am done.

There is an aspect to the whole "Rescuer" thing which seems to imply that the rescuer feels the person is unable to rescue or fix themself.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy




Amaros -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 5:29:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Yes, I did not understand


I dunno, maybe it's a man thing - sometimes we see too much and start thinking it's supposed to be that way - I'm sure my experiences are not unique.

Oddly, I got my aversion to war and nuclear weapons from my stepfather who flew cover on the Enola Gay off of Tinnian - he broke character, sat down and told me about the war one day.

Still ended up as a nuke weapons specialist, go figure.




diamonddreamlove -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 5:30:42 PM)

LOL Arpig.  Sir doesn't rescue but helps me think things through so that i might rescue myself.  In short His goal as He has explained it is to help me be everything i can be.  And fortunately i am a strong woman who happens to love to submit to her strong Dom.  He teaches and listens when i have something to say.  He takes the time to show and sometimes to show me a second time.  His strength is being a wonderful Dom and that is not being a rescuer.  He would catch me if i fell but then He would also be the One pushing me to new heights.  Is that a rescuer or a man doing His Dom job.




juliaoceania -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 5:31:43 PM)

I used to be much more idealistic than I am now, and more of a rescuer. I have very few illusions of my own sense of power in the world, and I now know I control very little, control is in and of itself an illusion... and I am ok with that...

I cannot keep others from their self destructive behaviors.... I can only save myself.. I can help, but they gotto be willing to save themselves to. If I enable them I keep them from reaching their potential.. this is hardest when it comes to my child.. but it applies to everyone I love. Sometimes people fall down and go "boom", that is the way life goes.





pqwinny -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 5:54:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Sometimes people fall down and go "boom", that is the way life goes.



Reminds me of this...it's not about how many times you fall down but how many times you get up and as long as the latter is one more than the former it's all good.




Amaros -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 5:56:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

Sorry if this is too flamey and I am taking this question as life in general and not totally about M/s.

For the most part when done within reason and with proper perspective and boundaries then a person who enjoys rescuing people is a nice person who it is just part of their personality. They are the people who are always taking in stray animals, doing favors for people outside of close friends and family and just enjoy sharing their wisdom with others.

For people who truly need to see someone and want to rescue, save and/or change them often that is just a sign of low self esteem on their end. They treat this problem by drugging themsevles with a unconscious sense of superiority. Who else but the great me can help this lowly person. They are looking for hero worship. They are looking to convert the people to their views and how they think life should be so it justifies their choices. I see a high percentage of this in social workers where it is almost not really about who they are looking out for but that they are great because they are the ones looking out for them.

Again I do not mean all people who like to rescue people have low self esteem. I am just saying that there is a very big difference in enjoying helping someone or something and needing to think or have others think that makes you nicer or better then other people.

For M/s, a dominant wanting/enjoying helping their submissive become all that they can be is truly special. A dominant thinking without them the person would be hopeless or loss has maybe more issues then their perceived rescue.


Sums it up nicely, I think - the tell is that you're real motivation becomes the desire to be rewarded for your "selflessness". The Bible suggests you "do your good deeds in secret" - 'course it also says not to hide your light "under a tub" - sigh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I used to be much more idealistic than I am now, and more of a rescuer. I have very few illusions of my own sense of power in the world, and I now know I control very little, control is in and of itself an illusion... and I am ok with that...

I cannot keep others from their self destructive behaviors.... I can only save myself.. I can help, but they gotto be willing to save themselves to. If I enable them I keep them from reaching their potential.. this is hardest when it comes to my child.. but it applies to everyone I love. Sometimes people fall down and go "boom", that is the way life goes.


On the contrary, your ability to influence others is the very definition of power - you can use it to feed your Napoleon complex, or you can just pass on a smile.

Delusion is thinking you can change everything - or anything - all at once.




juliaoceania -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 6:11:30 PM)

Amaros,

You have a very interesting view of the world and I very much enjoy reading your posts....

pq,
I will remember that saying...it has a lot of truth to it, and I know someone who could benefit from hearing it!




Amaros -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 6:28:41 PM)

It's something I think mothers understand instinctively, even when they say they don't. [;)]

For my part, punching the arming codes into a nuclear device is by far the hardest thing I've ever done (they don't tell you if it's the real thing or a drill, you always just have to assume it's for real) - everything else pales by comparison. the rest of my Karma is sparkling clean by comparison.

I decided that I couldn't kill anybody, let alone collude in mass murder - just following orders - unless it was my finger on the trigger, duty and consequences be damned. Not after seeing what Nimrods the Nuke 0's could be - I think they actually pick the stupidest 0 in the squadron to do that - I, apparently, had too much imagination.

Somebody still has to do it, of course, I sometimes wonder about the ultimate cosmic implications of being that guy vs. not being him.




WhipTheHip -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 7:54:05 PM)

Doms, subs, and sundry sourpusses lend me your ear,
 
>  a person who enjoys rescuing people is a nice person who it is just part of their personality.
> They are the people who are always taking in stray animals, doing favors for people outside
> of close friends and family and just enjoy sharing their wisdom with others.

I resuce cats, dogs, birds, turtles, the mentally ill, the homeless, and people with substance abuse issues.
I help the mentally ill get benefits to which they are entitled.  Most severly mentally ill do not have the discipline
necessary to get their benefits.  I walk them through the process.  I help them cut through all the red tape.
I befriend them, and encourage them.  Many mentally ill give up because no one cares about them.  I do.
I help the homeless find shelter and employment.  I encourage people with substance abuse issues to
go to detox and rehab.  I help get people out of jail when they have proven to me they are serious about
changing the direction of their life.   I teach unskilled people electrical wiring, a/c repair, how to paint,
plumbing. I write resumes for the homeless.  I let them use my phone to make calls for employment, and
allow them to use my mailing address to get mail.  I help them get ID.   I loan them money for clothes
and for ID.  I take people with AIDS to programs that help them, and that pay them to be part of
studies.
 
I think it is very sad that so many here are so cynical.   I don't try to fix people who are broken.  In
fact, I don't call any person "broken."  I understand why the mentally ill act the way they do.  I can't
understand how so-called normal people can be so cold, hard-hearted, callus and judgmental.
 
I believe people who need people are the luckest people of all.  I think people who don't  need
people are sick.  Humans are social creatures.  The worst punishment you can to someone
who is normal is lock them up in solitary confinement.
 
I find a lot of people in life are lonely and demoralized and just need a friend to help them
out.  Most people take for granted the emotional support and helping hand they get from
others.   It is hard to pick yourself up with your own bootstraps even if you are Hercules.  
 
I don't brag about what I do.  When I help people, I thank them for giving me the chance
to be a giver, because I think the giver gets more than the taker.  I do crave appreciation,
but I seldom get it.   I don't help people so others will praise me.  I very briefly describe
some of things I do to help others, because others here have stated that I am "not okay,"
that I probably seek to take advantage of people who are vulnerable, and that in general
there is something wrong, evil or misguided in my desire to help others.  Or there is
some hidden, ulterior motive.  Or nobody really needs anyone else's help.  It is
amazing how many ways people can defend selfishness.  I am the antithesis of Ayn
Rand and Neitzche.  I don't believe in God.  I do believe we create our own
moral reality.  In my reality, the uber-Mensch is not the object of worship.
 
I never equated "Dom" with "rescuer."  I was merely making an analogy.
 
Cheers,
Michael




LordODiscipline -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 8:02:43 PM)

I don't!
 
If I wanted someone bereft of life and ability, I would go to the school for the handi-capped my partner.
 
I expect them to be capable of handling life...
 
~J




cynthiamarie -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 8:06:53 PM)

 *I timed out and had problems getting back...was called Guest, lol.  Haven't read the ones that posted while I was typing or returning.  Will later.*
quote:

Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer?

A combination of things, the main reasons being that other people's pain often calls to me to do something, and my spirituality.
 

Some times in my life, someone out of the blue gave me a random act of kindness and it made all the difference for me. 
 
Not all rescuers are "co-dependent".  There is nothing wrong with making a new friend at the oncologist's office and helping them through chemo and radiation, or helping out with other little disasters that happen in people's lives. 

 
There is a big difference between helping/rescuing and becoming someone's permanent crutch. 

 
It's not an ego thing; I'm very aware that the world won't stop spinning when I die. [:D]

 
When I've helped, there's no payment of any kind given or accepted; expecting any payment in return would lead to cynicism, as well as take away from the value of the giving. 

 

quote:

I want the person I am helping or supporting to be better and more independant and more powerful when I am done.

Well said. :)


quote:

There is an aspect to the whole "Rescuer" thing which seems to imply that the rescuer feels the person is unable to rescue or fix themself.

Sometimes outside guidance or help is needed; friends, even temporary ones, help each other over the rough spots.  When someone is overwhelmed, we can see it and help if we can.  Sometimes just being there to listen, and be a sounding board, will help anchor them. 

How we treat others...is the kind of world we are creating for ourselves.




spanklette -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 8:11:44 PM)

For someone who doesn't brag, you sure brag a lot.
 
I come in contact with people who need help everyday, and I cannot help all of them. Even further than that, I wouldn't help all of them. I help those I can, but I can't let them affect me deep down. I certainly won't impede anyone from being successful, but my selfless bone must be warped. I come home every night and sleep just fine, without having sacrificed myself on the altar of another's crisis. 
 
I do admit that, every once in a while, I require rescue from creatures with multiple legs.




LordODiscipline -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 8:18:46 PM)

quote:

I come in contact with people who need help everyday, and I cannot help all of them. Even further than that, I wouldn't help all of them. I help those I can, but I can't let them affect me deep down. I certainly won't impede anyone from being successful, but my selfless bone must be warped. I come home every night and sleep just fine, without having sacrificed myself on the altar of another's crisis. 


So - you are saying that you are a well rounded, mentally and morally healthy individual with good self esteem and you are not handicapped by being co-dependant with other humans preventing them from using you to become misfits in society?
 
THE SHAME!
 
;)
~J




spanklette -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 8:23:24 PM)

I have never heard such a thing! ME...well rounded and morally healthy??? pshaw [:D]




juliaoceania -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/27/2006 9:21:26 PM)

If you are referring to my reference to codendency I wanted to make sure you saw the last line of it

quote:

I am not saying the OP is these things, I am just pointing out some of his ideas are consistent with codependency.. and it ain't a good thing from my PoV. Codependents are often loving, wonderful people... but it still isn't healthy


Only you know your issues, why the defensiveness?

You asked a general question about rescuers, I gave one reason for such behavior... If you were referring to yourself in the OP then I guess maybe some of the behaviors might fit you, if that is the case only you can answer if these rescuing behaviors affect your happiness and the success of your relationships. Only you know if you have had successful longterm relationships... rescuer behavior is only bad if it negatively impacts your life or those around you.. I do not know you, so how would I know the answers to your life




WhipTheHip -> RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer? (9/28/2006 12:15:19 AM)

> other people's pain often calls to me to do something, and my spirituality. 
 
Other people's pain calls me to do something because I possess empathy.
I know how bad pain can be, and what it is like to need help.  I come from
a people who have been persecuted down through the ages.
 
> Some times in my life, someone out of the blue gave
> me a random act of kindness and it made all the
> difference for me.  
 
This is true for me.  But mostly I remember how badly I suffered
when I was poor student in elementry school, how I was mocked
and ostracized, and vowed if I ever succeeded in life, I would
not forget those at the bottom.
 
>  Not all rescuers are "co-dependent". 
 
There are two kinds of co-dependance.  One kind is the textbook kind where someone
enables someone with a vice to continue on with their vice.  There is another kind
of co-dependence where two people are dependant on each other, where each
has strengths that compliment the weaknesses of the other, and vica-versa.  I am
co-dependant on a partner for many things.  I am very absent-minded.  I have ADD.
I can't stand doing things alone.   I enjoy sharing.  I am dependant on others
to tell me jokes.   It is just not the same when I tell myself a joke, because I
know the punch in advance.   Comedians are all codependant because
they need an audiance for their humor.   I guess you could say audiences
"enable" comedians to be comedians.  It is easier for me to make other
people laugh then it is to make me laugh. 
 
I need female companionship, and can't provide that to myself.  I need
a female body to satisfy my sexual desires.  I guess people who are
totally independant can f*ck themselves, but frankly I need a partner
for sexual fullfilment. 
 
> There is nothing wrong with making a new friend at the oncologist's office and
> helping them through chemo and radiation, or helping out with other little
> disasters that happen in people's lives
 
There is nothing wrong with helping most people most of the time.  I can think
of a few exceptions.  You see a surgeon doing brain surgery, it might not
be the brightest idea to step in and help him if you've never done that sort
of thing before.  I know it's kind of hard to expect people to interpret what
you say in reasonable fashion.  It is a lot easier to find all kinds of exceptions
to the rule and dispute someone, then it is to look at normal cases and
assume that is what they are talking about.
 
> There is a big difference between helping/rescuing and becoming
> someone's permanent crutch.
 
And I don't think there is anything wrong with being someone's permanent
crutch.   Some people have permanent needs.   If you marry someone
who is a parapalegic what is wrong with wheeling them around the rest
of their lives?  Some people have permanent emotional needs.  I see
nothing wrong with a partner willing to fullfil those needs on an on-going
basis.  I find it funny and ironic that people on a bdsm--D/s message
board wouldn't understand this.   Doms need subs, subs need doms.
Tops need bottoms, and bottoms need tops.  Isn't this some sort of
co-dependence?  Oh, I see!!!!  I get it now:  "My co-dependence is
okay, your co-dependance is not okay!"   Where was my brain?
 
> It's not an ego thing; I'm very aware that the world won't stop spinning
> when I die. [:D] 
 
Maybe, for me it is an ego thing.  It helps my ego to know that I am
good person who helps others.   What is wrong with building your
ego this way.  There are two ways to build an ego, one way is
by stepping on other people, putting them down, and taking advantage
of them.  The other way is by helping them, and gaining satisfaction
from  the good that you do.  Yes, it is much better for the ego to be
a giver than a taker.  There is no finer way to build an ego, and wish
everyone would take this path to having a stronger ego. 
 
And yes, I fully expect the world to stop spinning when I die. 
 
There are not too many trully kind, good-natured people in
the world.  And when they die, the world is greatly diminshed
for it.  A vacuum is left, and less good is done.  And we all
are worse off for it.  In some cases the loss is obvious like
in the case of Anwar Sadat, Shimon Peres, Gandhi, Martin
Lurther King, Bobby Kennedy, Malcom X.  In other cases,
the loss is not so obvious because the work they do is
not so widely recognized, if it is recognized at all.  Like
the Miami woman who rescued ferrets.  She made the
world a brighter place, a better place for all.  When
she died ferret resuce ended in Miami, and I presume
all the ferrets she rescued were euthanized.   As far as
I'm concerned, the day she died the world started
spinning a little slower.  The same is true the day Steve
Irwin died.   The world is full of heros, most of whom
none of us ever hear about. 
 
There are fewer and fewer good-natured people in
the world. We don't realize the reach of those
who remain.  We don't realize how great an effect
one good deed can have, and how ill an effect
one bad word can have.  
 
> I want the person I am helping or supporting to

> be better and more independant and more
> powerful when I am done,
 
Sometimes this can be achieved, sometimes not.  Many
people need continuous help because of their
defeciencies..
 
> There is an aspect to the whole "Rescuer" thing which
> seems to imply that the rescuer feels the person is unable
> to rescue or fix themself.
 
Remind me the next time you are drowning in the middle of
ocean not to throw you a life-preserver, or take you aboard
my boat.

> Sometimes outside guidance or help is needed
 
Never.   (Yes, I am being ironic.)
 
> friends, even temporary ones, help each other over
> the rough spots. 
 
You are only encouraging co-dependance.  (Yes, I am being ironic.)
 
> When someone is overwhelmed, we can see it and help if we can. 
> Sometimes just being there to listen, and be a sounding board,
> will help anchor them. 
 
You are just encouraging people to be weak, and not help themselves.
(Yes, I am being ironic.)

> How we treat others...is the kind of world we are creating for ourselves.

Oh, really?  You mean to say indifferance and apathy don't breed
kindness and understanding.  Who wants to live in a kind and
understanding world anyway?  Isn't it more fun to live in a jungle
and prey on the old, the young and the weak?

Cheers,
Michael




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