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RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 2:42:43 PM   
LadyMorgynn


Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline 		THANK YOU!!!  This is SO true.

And as for those who still believe we are "liberating" the Iraqi people... grow up already, and get an education.  Who the HELL do you think kept Saddam (AND all his ethnocentric policies) in power all these years?  Our government WANTED Saddam there, they WANTED Iraq to be in his firm, dictatorial, homicidal maniac grip to keep the balance of power, and they didn't give a flying fatoot what he was doing to the people in his country.  For decades, a select minority terrorized the entire country, with OUR blessing and support... and now we are "liberating" them from the dictator WE put in place, by destroying their country, their infrastructure, slaughtering a hundred thousand people, man woman and child indiscrimniately, and they are supposed to THANK US???  Excuse me?  If I was Iraqi I would fight the US forces to the last breath.  I don't blame them one bit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

I know for DAMNED sure if I saw some Chinese dude with a Red flag painted on his helmet marching in my town...he is going to wish he NEVER came down my street.

What's the difference between that and an American walking down an Iraqi street?

They certainly don't see us as "liberators" like the G-daamned Politicians in Washington WANT us to believe.



..


< Message edited by LadyMorgynn -- 9/30/2006 2:43:58 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 3:10:12 PM   
LadyMorgynn


Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline 		There is nothing I would not do.  I would be both an insurgent and a combatant.  I would poison the wells as cities fled before advancing forces.  I would kidnap and kill any member of their forces I could get my hands on, and it would give me GREAT PLEASURE to torture and rend them and pay them back for invading MY country, for killing my mother and brother, my children, my neighbors, I would NOT accept the dummy government they set up and I would not rest until the invaders AND the traitors who cooperated with them were either withdrawn or dead.

I would not of course, blow up buses or malls filled with citizens of my own country; then again, I have NOT lost everything to an unjust, unthinkable invasion by foreign forces, after having been for years terrorized by a government supported by said invasive forces.  Terrorists are not born.... they are MADE.  And WE are the ones who made these particular terrorists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Assume the Irktuskians invaded america...................

would you favor counter-attacks on such as them?  Would you deplore the disfavor that quislings might find themselves subject to?   Would you be a partisan or an insurgent or a combatant?

Some people here obviously need some life skills and need to quit watching the Oxygen channel, and fox.


Ron



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Lady Morgynn
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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 3:45:30 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		The problem is people just don't know History. They get spoonfed what the elites WANT them to know. Not TRUE History.

All governments throughout history caused and made wars...and in fact terrorized their OWN PEOPLE to keep them in line.

Many people in America today think just because they are in the USA...the government "only wants to do the best for our nation"...
when in fact its quite the opposite.

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 3:47:24 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn
And as for those who still believe we are "liberating" the Iraqi people... grow up already, and get an education.  Who the HELL do you think kept Saddam (AND all his ethnocentric policies) in power all these years?  Our government WANTED Saddam there, they WANTED Iraq to be in his firm, dictatorial, homicidal maniac grip to keep the balance of power, and they didn't give a flying fatoot what he was doing to the people in his country.  For decades, a select minority terrorized the entire country, with OUR blessing and support... and now we are "liberating" them from the dictator WE put in place, by destroying their country, their infrastructure, slaughtering a hundred thousand people, man woman and child indiscrimniately, and they are supposed to THANK US???  Excuse me?  If I was Iraqi I would fight the US forces to the last breath.  I don't blame them one bit.


As a person that is undecided on this issue, I can only say that these vast statements of conjecture, after a call to "get an education", does your position no good at all.
 
Can you prove (as is from official sources), that we wanted Saddam in charge?
 
Can you prove we preferred a homicidal maniac in control?
 
Can you prove, as you claim, that we put Saddam in place? (I'm dying to hear this one)
 
Can you prove anything, other than Iraq was once heavily supported by the Soviet Union, and pre-revolution Iran was our horse in this race? Prior to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, about all that can be categorically said about US relations with Iraq, is that we were somewhat indifferent, other than our thirst to BUY their oil. Isn't that exactly what your side wants ... for us to be indifferent? Are you saying that we should have backed off support for our friend, Kuwait?
 
Good debate.  I'm hoping you can respond with something a little more subtantial than a source from nuttyliftist or nuttyrightist dot com.

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 4:08:40 PM   
LadyMorgynn


Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline 		This is so ridiculously typical of the close-minded, it's hardly worth bothering.  I don't have to PROVE anything at all.  The information is there, for those who care to open their minds and look.

For the record re Kuwait, I wasn't talking about Kuwait at all.  The current invasion by aggressor forces has nothing to do with what happened in Kuwait in 1990.  One must also remember, however, that we gave Saddam a green light on that one.  Granted, what he had in mind was not what our ambassador had in mind, but Saddam was one of the GOOD guys (read: friend of the West) until he invaded Kuwait.

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn


As a person that is undecided on this issue, I can only say that these vast statements of conjecture, after a call to "get an education", does your position no good at all.
 
Can you prove (as is from official sources), that we wanted Saddam in charge?
 
Can you prove we preferred a homicidal maniac in control?
 
Can you prove, as you claim, that we put Saddam in place? (I'm dying to hear this one)
 
Can you prove anything, other than Iraq was once heavily supported by the Soviet Union, and pre-revolution Iran was our horse in this race? Prior to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, about all that can be categorically said about US relations with Iraq, is that we were somewhat indifferent, other than our thirst to BUY their oil. Isn't that exactly what your side wants ... for us to be indifferent? Are you saying that we should have backed off support for our friend, Kuwait?
 
Good debate.  I'm hoping you can respond with something a little more subtantial than a source from nuttyliftist or nuttyrightist dot com.


_____________________________

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Lady Morgynn
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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 4:21:43 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		LadyMorgynn is entirely correct, caitlyn.
 
In your profile I see that you are very young: 20 years of age. That means that during the Kuwait war you were only approximately four years old. Apparently that is the age at which history started for you and as far as you are concerned there was nothing happening before that.
 
You may benefit from reading a couple of hundred books and a couple of thousand articles about the history of the world.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 4:35:16 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

LadyMorgynn is entirely correct, caitlyn.
 
In your profile I see that you are very young: 20 years of age. That means that during the Kuwait war you were only approximately four years old. Apparently that is the age at which history started for you and as far as you are concerned there was nothing happening before that.
 
You may benefit from reading a couple of hundred books and a couple of thousand articles about the history of the world.


Actually, caitlyn is very bright, and has shown a knowledge and appreciation for history.
 
Disagree with her if you want, but if you could do it with reason, rather than derision, it'd be appreciated.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 4:42:49 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I don't find any of this closed-minded at all. I attend Rice University, which is considered a very good school and certainly not conservative by any means. I've taken several classes and studied extensively on this matter and found nothing to support any of the claims you are making here ... nothing that passes the test of objectivity.
 
If you are going to tell people to educate themselves, perhaps you could be so kind as to provide information that one of the best colleges in the country seems unable to come up with. That would only seem fair ... or perhaps you could stop telling people to educate themselves, until such time as you are willing to step to the plate.

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 4:45:44 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		I think LadyMorgynn is more than holding her own on this issue and if anyone should be appreciating anything the appreciation should be in LadyMorgynn's direction for telling it how it is.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 4:50:22 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
LadyMorgynn is entirely correct, caitlyn.
 
In your profile I see that you are very young: 20 years of age. That means that during the Kuwait war you were only approximately four years old. Apparently that is the age at which history started for you and as far as you are concerned there was nothing happening before that.
 
You may benefit from reading a couple of hundred books and a couple of thousand articles about the history of the world.


How about suggesting a book or two ... or ten of you like ... official documents ... anything really. I read very quickly you will find, and am more than willing to learn.
 
One class I don't need to take again, is the one where peoiple instruct on their ability to talk down to me. I got an A in that one, about five-hundred posts ago.

(in reply to Rule)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 4:52:57 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I think LadyMorgynn is more than holding her own on this issue and if anyone should be appreciating anything the appreciation should be in LadyMorgynn's direction for telling it how it is.


Morgynn is indeed doing fine, if a bit shrill, but you'll note my comments were directed to Rule.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 4:56:31 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
I think LadyMorgynn is more than holding her own on this issue and if anyone should be appreciating anything the appreciation should be in LadyMorgynn's direction for telling it how it is.


I have nothing against her, or what she posted. "Telling it how it is", counts for so much more, when you back it up and tell us how you came to those conclusions.
 
Do you think for a minute that I'm unwilling to except that my country does bad things? Trust me, as an avid student of history, I'm well aware of our shortcomings. We are not any different or better than any other power.
 
That said, I don't think it should be considered closed-minded, to ask to actually try to understand how a person came to a conclusion. What is closed-minded is accepting it outright. 

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 4:57:27 PM   
LadyMorgynn


Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline 		My dear sir, I can't possibly be shrill, I am in the midst of a bout with bronchitis, and my voice, if it can be heard at all, is very deep and low and kind of echo-y in a fuzzy kind of way :(

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Morgynn is indeed doing fine, if a bit shrill, but you'll note my comments were directed to Rule.


_____________________________

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Lady Morgynn
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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:02:48 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

My dear sir, I can't possibly be shrill, I am in the midst of a bout with bronchitis, and my voice, if it can be heard at all, is very deep and low and kind of echo-y in a fuzzy kind of way :(

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Morgynn is indeed doing fine, if a bit shrill, but you'll note my comments were directed to Rule.



*sends you good mojo to clear the bronchitis*
 
It's just the way the post came across, and I know that things are not always what they seem online. I agree with some of what you wrote, Morgynn, but America certainly was not a constant supporter of Saddam, and I just as certainly don't think the only reason we went in there was for oil (which you did not state, I'm just saying), and we have put a hell of a lot of money, blood, sweat, and tears into trying to do some good things there. The more time goes by, the less I wish we ever invaded Iraq, but wish in one hand and shit in the other.....
 
And we are not slaughtering Iraqis by the tens of thousands, I don't think. Certainly not indiscrimately (sp?)

< Message edited by Level -- 9/30/2006 5:03:58 PM >

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:03:16 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Level, I stand corrected. As you say, you replied to Rule. But, fuck who's bright and who isn't bright, let's tell it how it is.

caitlyn, you can pick at the bones until the cows come home but the meat of what Ladymorgynn is saying is that the US Government was all over Iraq when it suited and when it doesn't suit they're bombing the place and it is bang on.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:04:39 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn
My dear sir, I can't possibly be shrill, I am in the midst of a bout with bronchitis, and my voice, if it can be heard at all, is very deep and low and kind of echo-y in a fuzzy kind of way :(


I hope you are feeing better soon.  

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:15:13 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
caitlyn, you can pick at the bones until the cows come home but the meat of what Ladymorgynn is saying is that the US Government was all over Iraq when it suited and when it doesn't suit they're bombing the place and it is bang on.


That was not what she said at all. She made some very specific points. It is not picking nits to question these statements, especially when you consider that the first line of my post was:

"As a person that is undecided on this issue, I can only say that these vast statements of conjecture, after a call to "get an education", does your position no good at all."
 
I can't say this any more clearly. We have been debating this on this forum for months now, and one thing I have noticed is that very few (but some) people on either side of it have anything substantial to back what they say. Ask for proof, and they send you a youTube of some screaming idiot, or a quote from "Rush" ... and follow that up with the obligatory, "educate yourself", "read history", "you are closed minded."

So, I say I'm undecided ... which from my point of view, given the lack of facts presented by either side, is the ONLY place a reasonable person can be on this issue ... and the conservatives accuse me of being a liberal, and the liberals accuse me of being a schill for the administration.

I am forming one conclusion. Most older people are fucking insane.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 9/30/2006 5:17:00 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:17:27 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

We are not any different or better than any other power.
 


I agree with you here, it is just the size and power of the USA that makes a greater impact on the world than other powers.

But tell me. Why since 1945 does the US always seem to back the wrong side?

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:18:07 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I am forming one conclusion. Most older people are fucking insane.


And incontinent. At least older ones than 41......

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:23:59 PM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

We are not any different or better than any other power.
 


I agree with you here, it is just the size and power of the USA that makes a greater impact on the world than other powers.

But tell me. Why since 1945 does the US always seem to back the wrong side?


Comparing South to North Korea, I would not agree with that, MC. Was backing South Vietnam wrong, just because the war was lost? In China, we backed Chian Kai-shek, who wasn't a saint, but after Mao took over, I wonder if he wouldn't have been better?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 60
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