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RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:26:37 PM

caitlyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
But tell me. Why since 1945 does the US always seem to back the wrong side?

There is some truth to this. South Korea may have been the "right" side, but certainly we have not done all that well as a power.

I do think though that it's not an easy job being a super power these days. We are strong relative to other countries, like the Romans, but on a global scale. It has been a long time since there was anyone like us, and there will be no Hadrian's wall for us.

I think we were not given a manual, and are just sort of winging it. We are a very new power though, less than 20 years on this scale. Perhaps we will get lucky and work it out. One thing you have to say about the good 'ol USA ... we are very lucky.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 61

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:30:19 PM

NorthernGent

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And as for those who still believe we are "liberating" the Iraqi people... grow up already, and get an education. Who the HELL do you think kept Saddam (AND all his ethnocentric policies) in power all these years?

My take on this is that Lady Morgynn is telling the story on how the US Government provided the tools for Saddam to fight wars. caitlyn, you say you're on the fence, there is more evidence out there than you can shake a shitty stick at to tell you that the US Government has supplied serious weapons to Iraq. Links can quite easily be provided.

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Post #: 62

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:34:51 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Comparing South to North Korea, I would not agree with that, MC. Was backing South Vietnam wrong, just because the war was lost? In China, we backed Chian Kai-shek, who wasn't a saint, but after Mao took over, I wonder if he wouldn't have been better?

I'll give way on Korea. Chian Kai-shek was in my eyes a mistaken policy. Vietnam was plain wrong because that was a colonial war. Backing the Shah of Iran proved to be the wrong side and then backing Iraq proved wrong. I remember an American documentry on the BBC where one American commentator said, we should ask the CIA for intelligence then do exactly the opposite to what they advise.

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Post #: 63

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:42:13 PM

caitlyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
My take on this is that Lady Morgynn is telling the story on how the US Government provided the tools for Saddam to fight wars. caitlyn, you say you're on the fence, there is more evidence out there than you can shake a shitty stick at to tell you that the US Government has supplied serious weapons to Iraq. Links can quite easily be provided.

I have no problem with the statement that the United States provided military hardware to Iraq (sold through Belgium, in fact). I questioned some very specific points.

Tell me though, why isn't this the Russian's fault then? Almost all of Iraq's military hardware was sold to them by the former Soviet Union, and Russia. France sold them jet fighters ... far more hardware than the United States ever did. If that is your acid test, why isn't this France's fault.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 64

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:48:31 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Tell me though, why isn't this the Russian's fault then? Almost all of Iraq's military hardware was sold to them by the former Soviet Union, and Russia. France sold them jet fighters ... far more hardware than the United States ever did. If that is your acid test, why isn't this France's fault.

The British estimate 30% of weapons used against them are of French origin. That is less than was in the Falklands war so i think we have something to be thankful for. The French really should get over Waterloo.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 65

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:50:05 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Comparing South to North Korea, I would not agree with that, MC. Was backing South Vietnam wrong, just because the war was lost? In China, we backed Chian Kai-shek, who wasn't a saint, but after Mao took over, I wonder if he wouldn't have been better?

I'll give way on Korea. Chian Kai-shek was in my eyes a mistaken policy. Vietnam was plain wrong because that was a colonial war. Backing the Shah of Iran proved to be the wrong side and then backing Iraq proved wrong. I remember an American documentry on the BBC where one American commentator said, we should ask the CIA for intelligence then do exactly the opposite to what they advise.

But wasn't Vietnam colonial only when it was the French fighting there? I'm no expert, but I believe the U.S. came in only to oppose the communists. The Shah.... hmm. He certainly wasn't loved there, but at least his embracing of some western-style ideas gave hope and happiness to such as women and intellectuals, unlike the Ayatollahs.

I see precious little black and white in these things, more of a "the Shah was a dick, but the Ayatollah was a bigger one" sort of deal, and of course, back in those days, all things were filtered through the prism of the Cold War.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 66

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:50:55 PM

caitlyn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
The French really should get over Waterloo.

My vote for best line of this thread.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 67

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:51:43 PM

NorthernGent

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The difference being the US and British Governments are now in there bombing the place. Also, there was far more than what was sold through Belguim. See link below.

http://www.sundayherald.com/27572

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 68

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 5:56:26 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

But wasn't Vietnam colonial only when it was the French fighting there?

The reason Britain refused to send any troops to Vietnam was because the British government saw it as a continuation of a colonial war. After the French left it was the South that refused to participate in elections, that provoked the North to attack the South and the US joined in on the South's side.

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Post #: 69

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 6:01:25 PM

LadyMorgynn

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Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
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I'm personally fond of the theory that Napoleon would have won at Waterloo, had it not rained the night before so that the cannonballs plowed into the mud and stayed there, rather than exploding or ricocheting (or whatever it is that cannonballs do) and as such did NOT wreak the massive havoc and devastation amongst the British (and other) troops that otherwise would have been the case.

Okay, I'm sure it's not the only reason that he lost, and certainly his staff were culpable to a great extent, but his planning itself was militarily sound, and minus the weather, the stupidity (or however you care to term it) of some of his generals, disobeying orders and attempting to think for himselves (with disastrous results), by all rights he should have won. A lesson to us to school our slaves in unquestioning obedience!!! See what happens when you disobey orders or try to do things *your* way? LOL.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
The British estimate 30% of weapons used against them are of French origin. That is less than was in the Falklands war so i think we have something to be thankful for. The French really should get over Waterloo.

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Post #: 70

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 6:02:38 PM

caitlyn

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That can't be ... because they don't have any WMD's.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 71

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 9:55:31 PM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

Caitlyn,

I am not sure if your obtuseness is the result of a young girl with just enough education to be truly dangerous or if your games are truly the result of willful misdirection and outright malice.

You want "official documentation" for things, well try reading the book Bush's daddy wrote for one. He left Saddam in charge because he knew only a fucking idiot would let the Shia and Kurds run the place.

As for doing the rest of your education for you, no thanks, I don't think you are bright enough for it to take. There are many well researched and documented books out there on our help for and support of Saddam up to and including not only supplying him with chemical weapons but the meteorological data to use it effectively.

quote:

Prior to Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, about all that can be categorically said about US relations with Iraq, is that we were somewhat indifferent, other than our thirst to BUY their oil.

The above quote disqualifies you as having anything intelligent or informed to say about Iraq. However, if you would actually enjoy embarking on an actual education try googling William Casey and either chemical weapons or Iraq. One day you just might know enough to look back and laugh at how utterly stupid you sounded as a kid.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 72

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 11:09:36 PM

FangsNfeet

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I favor attacks on Iraq. Sounds fair to me.

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Post #: 73

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 11:12:03 PM

LadyMorgynn

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline

Which is precisely WHY the Iraqi's favor attacks on Americans... because we DID attack them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

I favor attacks on Iraq. Sounds fair to me.

_____________________________

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Lady Morgynn
www.farhorizons.net/LadyMorgynn

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Post #: 74

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 11:17:05 PM

FangsNfeet

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We're infidels. They've been favoring attacks on the US for a long time. When the time of Jyhad comes, all muslims are to either convert or kill all infidels.

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Post #: 75

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 11:21:21 PM

LadyMorgynn

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline

If I have to hear more of this "we're infidels and have to die" bullshit I'm going to vomit. You've been watching FOX news too much. This is COMPLETELY false, Islam says nothing of the kind, and you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading such blatant propaganda. This is precisely what the First Asshole would love for all Americans to believe so he can continue to try to justify his war of opportunity. But it is NOT true, and anyone who knows ANYTHING about Islam can tell you that it's not true.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

We're infidels. They've been favoring attacks on the US for a long time. When the time of Jyhad comes, all muslims are to either convert or kill all infidels.

< Message edited by LadyMorgynn -- 9/30/2006 11:27:14 PM >

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Lady Morgynn
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Post #: 76

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 11:35:07 PM

FangsNfeet

Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

Read it a weep.

So answer me this.

1. If we were to pull out a no long send any influance to the Middle East, would that put an end to all the terrorism?

2. Would the Jews still be around if they were to put down there guns?

I keep hearing that it's only a few bad apples giving Islam a bad name. Last time I counted, a few MILLION happens to be a lot of bad apples.

Slowly but surely, America has become very tolerant and open to homosexuals. Can you name me one Homosexual who lives in an openly walks around in an Arbic Nation? The punishment for being a homo is DEATH by there Religious Law.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

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Post #: 77

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 9/30/2006 11:39:44 PM

LadyMorgynn

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline

I am in awe at the indepth study you have made of the subject.

1. Not any more; we've done far too much harm insofar as destabilizing the region to hope for that.
2. Who asked 'em to?
3. A few million terrorists? You're back with listening to FOX news again.
4. Try reading the Bible, sweetums. Try polling the R. Right here... seems to me young Matthew in Wyoming died for being a homosexual just a few years back.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

Read it a weep.

So answer me this.

1. If we were to pull out a no long send any influance to the Middle East, would that put an end to all the terrorism?

2. Would the Jews still be around if they were to put down there guns?

I keep hearing that it's only a few bad apples giving Islam a bad name. Last time I counted, a few MILLION happens to be a lot of bad apples.

Slowly but surely, America has become very tolerant and open to homosexuals. Can you name me one Homosexual who lives in an openly walks around in an Arbic Nation? The punishment for being a homo is DEATH by there Religious Law.

< Message edited by LadyMorgynn -- 9/30/2006 11:42:12 PM >

_____________________________

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Lady Morgynn
www.farhorizons.net/LadyMorgynn

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Post #: 78

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 4:51:40 AM

Rule

Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
I attend Rice University, which is considered a very good school and certainly not conservative by any means.

Ah, that explains at least part of your ignorance.
I investigated Rice University a little bit about six months ago.
Last night I learned that people "jump" off the roof of the football stadium there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
I've taken several classes and studied extensively on this matter and found nothing to support any of the claims you are making here ... nothing that passes the test of objectivity.

I am sure. Especially since these indoctrination courses are given by the most intelligent people in the USA. Of course they provide facts and nothing but the facts - but those facts are their facts and of course they are well documented. Highly intelligent people are the best liars, as they do not make stupid mistakes, like less intelligent liars do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
perhaps you could be so kind as to provide information that one of the best colleges in the country seems unable to come up with.

Undoubtedly Rice University is one of the best colleges in the country. That is why it does not surprise me that people "jump" to their death from the roof of the football stadium there. You had best not talk about that there, lest the same happens to you.

So because it is one of the best colleges in the country you swallow what is taught there hook, line and bait as the veritable truth?

A valuable bit of advice for any student anywhere: never trust your educators and betters. Science advances by students proving that the truths of their elders in fact are lies.

There is history as it happened, and there is history as taught by the victors. There is a difference.

Perhaps you will be more readily convinced if you do your own investigation? Google helps.

(in reply to caitlyn)

Post #: 79

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans - 10/1/2006 5:02:42 AM

Level

Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
I attend Rice University, which is considered a very good school and certainly not conservative by any means.

quote:

Ah, that explains at least part of your ignorance.
I investigated Rice University a little bit about six months ago.
Last night I learned that people "jump" off the roof of the football stadium there.

Rice is indeed an excellent school, you might want to double-check your "investigation".

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Rule)

Post #: 80

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