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Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 10:44:34 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		 
Hello A/all,

I wanted to post a thread asking how people deal with situations where they are clearly incorrect, messed up, bet on the wrong horse, whatever.

I dont really want to get into a punishment thing.  That is in other
people's dynamics and I am dubious that any codified hard and
fast rule exists.  What I am referring to is from an individual
perspective.

How do you personally deal with being in the wrong?

Are you capable of envisioning a situation wherein you are
wrong?  Are you capable of being aware of and accepting that you made a mistake?

There is a quote I learned a long time ago which goes something like:

"It is fun watching people who paint themselves into a corner and
then attempt to paint a door to escape through."

For me, personally, when I have messed up I am much more comfortable simply stating "gee, oops, sorry, my bad" and dealing with the associated fall-out.  One thing you will notice some of our elected officials do involves making definitive statements, and when these are proven false, they quickly change the subject to other definitive statements.  When those are proven false, they change back to the original statements.  And the circuitous discussion goes on and on and on and on. 

Reminds me of people who try to push a wall of mud uphill.

I know a couple that have been married forever.  She tends to say whatever fool thing enters her head at a given time, no matter
how obnoxious or cruel this might be.  His half of the dysfunction is to wander around in her wake, explaining to the shattered remains of the people she has just insulted, attempting to explain that they misunderstood her and she is a wonderful person.

What fascinates me is these two people are completely incapable of conceiving of a world or a time where they were responsible for having made a mistake or insulted somebody.

I also worked in computer user support for years and years and years.  I could take 2 hours asking the person on the phone and trouble shooting their computer over the network only to discover they had spilled their coke on their keyboard.  This was 2 hours of our lives we will never see again, and all the person had to do was be honest and up-front in the beginning and the problem would have been solved.

And in closing, another quote I picked up when I was a kid.

"It takes a big person to say they are right.  It takes a much bigger
person to say they are wrong."

JM, CBW, BTYG.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 10:51:08 AM   
zumala


Posts: 1121
Joined: 6/16/2005
Status: offline 		When I screw up, I admit it.  Not to say that I might not be embarrassed that I made a mistake or humiliated to have to admit to it, but...  To NOT admit to a mistake is to make a second mistake.  It'll come back and bite you in the ass.  Much better to admit to, apologize for, and then correct the mistake made.
 
zuma

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 10:52:28 AM   
abytchgoddess4u


Posts: 268
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline 		When I'm wrong, I own it to the best of my ability. Obviously some things are just going to be a difference of opinion and I/we must agree to disagree.

But, I find that owning my shit makes it easier to demand the same level of integrity from others. Heightens the quality of people I deal with and lowers the drama level in my life. All are good and work for me.

Of course...I'm rarely incorrect, so it makes it all the more effective when I do say I'm wrong...


_____________________________

"Everything in the Universe Is within you.
Ask all from yourself." Rumi

"The world will know and understand me someday. But if that day does not arrive, it does not greatly matter. I shall have opened the way for other women."
George Sand

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 10:59:27 AM   
champagnewishes


Posts: 1310
Joined: 10/31/2005
From: Orange County
Status: offline 		Wrong is had by first not owning it, secondly by not learning from it and third by allowing it to continually repeat itself. 

_____________________________

Nirvana cannot be described, it is only understood truly by a person who has experienced it.


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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:02:56 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		As the OP can tell you, I am often wrong, but I will always strive to do better in the future.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:05:55 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I recognize I messed up and work toward making things right.  I also try to figure out the source of that error so as not to repeat it.  If I am the first to recognize my error, I will confess it and apologize to whomever it effected.  If an error is pointed out to me, I will consider it, and if I can see it was indeed my screw up, I will apply the above.  There are times, however, when I do not see the error of my ways, even when pointed out to me.  My Master usually helps me see it at that point, and even then I might have trouble.  There are also times when I rethink something I have said and done, hoping it was not the wrong thing to do, when those around me confirm it was actually correct.

I think the idea is to be aware of thoughts and actions and how they affect others, and also how they affect oneself.  Denying a mistake does nothing.  It's still out there, unresolved.

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:06:24 AM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

How do you personally deal with being in the wrong?

Are you capable of envisioning a situation wherein you are
wrong?  Are you capable of being aware of and accepting that you made a mistake?


I am wrong every day at something.
 
It happens... I hold up my hand, admit it, figure out how to alleviate it going forward, learn from it -and move on. Goid willing and abiding, I will not make it again - but, then I am fallible and do at times. Life is learning.
 
I cannot account for your tale of the two in the relationship...their issue.
 
I would not make it mine, but I would let the dynamic play out to my detriment twice... then I would alleviate my angst and not associate with them. I leave it as their issue where it exists and where it belongs - I am not one to sit and watch replays of train wrecks or shuttle disasters.
 
As far as the work issue - it is two hours you shall "never see again" - but, it is also two hours of a life which you lead.
 
Bemoaning that moment for any length of time is no way to consider the breadth of life...
 
That throught process is defeatist and contrary to the happiness of everyone.
 
You were paid to assist a person who was clueless... same thing you would have done in any situational call in that position at that time.
 
Believe that he learned from it and benefited from the interaction and you were crucial to his education.
 
~J

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:09:29 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


Hello A/all,

I wanted to post a thread asking how people deal with situations where they are clearly incorrect, messed up, bet on the wrong horse, whatever.

How do you personally deal with being in the wrong?

Are you capable of envisioning a situation wherein you are
wrong?

Yup. 
quote:


Are you capable of being aware of and accepting that you made a mistake?

Yup.  Lots of practice here.
quote:


There is a quote I learned a long time ago which goes something like:

"It is fun watching people who paint themselves into a corner and
then attempt to paint a door to escape through."

"Blessed are those who err...for they shall not be alone". - Me

quote:


"It takes a big person to say they are right.  It takes a much bigger
person to say they are wrong."

Absolutely.


< Message edited by LotusSong -- 9/30/2006 11:18:19 AM >

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:13:46 AM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		When I am wrong or make a mistake, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.


This whole thread made me think of what my dad says all the time(in a joking way)...I may not be right, but I'm never wrong.

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.


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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:16:25 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

Bemoaning that moment for any length of time is no way to consider the breadth of life...
 
That throught process is defeatist and contrary to the happiness of everyone.
 


Hello A/all,

I was not actually bemoaning anything.  I determined years ago that I could either be upset by things or roll with them and find the amusement value in almost anything.

However, phrasing it that way looks more amusing to me in print.

Enjoy your day,

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:23:45 AM   
Craftsman


Posts: 885
Joined: 6/12/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50

When I am wrong or make a mistake, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.

This whole thread made me think of what my dad says all the time(in a joking way)...I may not be right, but I'm never wrong.

My ex-step-father (may he be in an unpleasant after-life) used to say, "They can be as right as I am, and I could be just as wrong as they are."

I went through a couple of 12 step programs and found out that "when we were wrong, promptly admitted it" was a good way to get past that whole mess.

Often, it does not matter much how one got into the position one did by being wrong.  What matters is where we go and what we do from that point forward.  Owning my errors, and sometimes taking the blame (up to a point) for others when that works for the greater good seems to help get me past the problems. 

_____________________________

You do not have to be perfect to be perfect.

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:25:34 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		When i was younger, i used to be on constant alert to defend my POV (who i thought i was), even if there were no attackers present.  i was still healing from past experiences and conditioning from such.  There came a pivotal point when i was raped by one whom i loved.  My entire life and perspective changed and opened wide in what seemed to be an instant supercharged moment.  Also, i became pregnant as a result, and decided to keep the babe.  What followed me throughout the years for sometime after, was that i was still a victim, to whatever and whomever surrounded me.  No matter what it was, i, in my arrogance, took everything personal.  As if i was someone, to be the prime motivator for everyone else to center their life's choices upon.  Over the years i began to notice this, but, what a humbling experience it was when the fullness of that revelation hit after 4 kids and at least 20 pets or so.
 
So, after all of that...well...admitting my wrongs?  No problemo...*grin

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:26:04 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Excellent questions Sinergy!!

I cannot imagine that a few threads on here may have inspired this one!

Now to answer the best that I can. I may have a totally different outlook than alot of people. I honestly do not mind admitting I make mistakes or coming to the realization that I was wrong about something unless it cost someone else, as in a work error or hurting someone, then I get royally mad at myself. Of course I still take ownership of the error but I am usually livid with myself.

I think of life as a sort of classroom, one big, and hopefully loooooonnnnnnggg path of learning. Of course I have sort of a weird far east  viewpoint on it too. Hey, I read Deepak Chopra for crying out loud. I  am sure that some people see/hear me in a discussion and see me change angles and think "wow, doesn't she know what the hell she thinks/feels?!?!" Well, sometimes I have gotten a different perspective right smack in the middle of the whole darn thing and am seeing the topic in a whole new light. Kind of mulling it all over and rethinking it. I may go back to my original opinion but I will go back to it with a better understanding of why others feel differently. I don't think of it as being weak or as my grandma would say "wishy washy" I think of it as being open minded, open to LEARNING! OMG!!! What an amazing concept!

I am also one that finds it easy to appologize for mistakes if it involves others. I have never thought saying "I'm sorry" and meaning it, was weak. Weak to me, is not being able to. Especially for those that like to pretend they have never done anything wrong or even worse, they blame someone else, god that royally pisses me right off. I have worked with too many people like that, always looking for a scapegoat. I think its a hell of alot easier to have someone say "I fucked up" and work with them to help fix the problem. Call me crazy but I think it works better that way.

I also rarely get upset with someone that disagrees with me, or that I disagree with...kinda go hand in hand there. Those are the people I tend to learn most from, at least if they have an intelligent argument and are not just being pigheaded and disagreeing for the sake of argument. There are more than a few like that also. On the flipside there are a few people on CM that drove me totally batshit when I first started reading their posts. One in particular. That man hit my last nerve right off the bat "what an arrogant ASS!!" I thought. But, in my quest for personal growth I kept my opinion to myself and started to think, now just WHY does he bug me so, and I kept reading his posts. I made a concentrated effort to watch for them. A cool thing happened, my opinion about him changed! Now, I have alot of respect for the guy and really enjoy reading his stuff. I may not always agree, but I always get something from them. Hell, he almost inspired me to start a thread on the topic, but I was afraid it would turn into another gagging crushfest and that would not have been my intention. Anyway, I enjoy opposing views. They challenge me, help me learn and grow.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:27:56 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: raiken

What followed me throughout the years for sometime after, was that i was still a victim, to whatever and whomever surrounded me. 



Hello raiken,

Thank you for sharing the story.  I would indicate to you that you are not a victim, you are a survivor.  But it sounds as if you already know that.

Salud!

Sinergy 

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:29:09 AM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Well - "Bemoaning" might be too strong -
 
We might just say it "annoyed you" - as you are bringing it up so long after the fact ;)
 
~J

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:37:36 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

Well - "Bemoaning" might be too strong -
 
We might just say it "annoyed you" - as you are bringing it up so long after the fact ;)
 
~J


"We" can say whatever you like about my feelings.  I tend to doubt
any of the you are prescient enough to know what my feelings actually are, but it is not my place to tell you how to spend your time.

I am not annoyed.  I can come up hundreds of similar examples where somebody called me up with a problem they wanted me to fix but didnt think to let me know those "minor" details.

When I have supervised operations and support personnel, the thing I tell them on the first day is to not panic, always ask for help, and remember absolutely everything they type at a keyboard trying to fix a problem.  This allows us to figure out how to reverse engineer it back to work.

I then would let them do the driving as we worked to fix the problem.  I tended to go on the theory that if I taught the people who worked for me how to do my job, I could spend more time drinking coffee, talking on the phone, or reading technical journals.

But that is just me, and I could be wrong.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:39:30 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		i can readily admit to being wrong, but the next step in my development is getting over the pride thing that says i have to EXPLAIN why i was wrong.  Like i cannot just accept being wrong without a good reason.   The hardest thing Master has me do is admit to fucking up without a follow-up excuse.   (i usually said "ok, this isn't an excuse, but it is a reason..."  to which He'd say stuff it.  same thing. I don't want to hear it.) 

i thought that was the most arrogant thing!~  How dare Someone just accept me for being wrong, but not accept that i am good inside and didn't MEAN it?   i wanted to control others opinions of me with my legal defense moves.  Wow, that was a horrible revelation. 

i thought i was good at swallowing my pride to admit being wrong.  Now i know that where my pride issue lies is in "you cannot think less of me for it, dammit!"  THAT is a much bigger bite to take.  i'm still working on it.

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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 11:58:40 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

The hardest thing Master has me do is admit to fucking up without a follow-up excuse.  



Hello A/all,

Your Master and I may have something in common.  I will hear an excuse or reason a time or to, but if the person keeps doing the same thing over and over again, I start to mull over my own personal definition (I stole it from somebody) for psychotic behavior. 

To whit, psychotic behavior is doing the same thing over and over again and hoping for a different outcome.

To me, people will either do or not do something.  If they want to do something, they will work out a way to do it, and vice versa.

Wasnt it Yoda who said "There is no try, only do or fail."

I will hear an apology for a misdeed once.  If the person does the same thing again, I tell them that the most sincere form of apology for having done / not done something is to stop doing / not doing it.  Sorry is just a word.  Contrition is a behavior.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Mavis)
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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 12:03:44 PM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

"We" can say whatever you like about my feelings.  I tend to doubt
any of the you are prescient enough to know what my feelings actually are, but it is not my place to tell you how to spend your time.


LOL... the same might be stated about your assertions/assumptions for anyone else...
 
And, apparently how we define "annoyed" is definitively different.
 
Lighten the hell up.
 
The rest of your recommendations are very sound for personnel....
 
I tend to tell my people - you can do no wrong that cannot be corrected.. triple check your work and learn to ask for ask for help when you require it and you will be fine.
 
On this subject, you might also decide to ask people how they ask for forgiveness... there are proper ways of doing so when we are incorrect in our behavior in different situations.
 
But, that is just me.

~J

_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: Digging a hole - 9/30/2006 12:09:18 PM   
wild1cfl


Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: champagnewishes

Wrong is had by first not owning it, secondly by not learning from it and third by allowing it to continually repeat itself. 


I tend to agree with this statement, first of all I admit to others that are aware of what I did wrong that I was wrong and apologize to them. I then like ot ask for their feedback about the situation as to what I could have done differently to correct the situation or wrongdoing. Thirdly I try very hard not ot make the same mistake again. I feel that those who follow these simple steps have more repsect from those who are close to them. These principles are some that I have also treid very hard ot instill in my children.

_____________________________

Wild

My Falcon now is sharp, and passing empty; And, till she stoop, she shall not be full gorg'd, For then she never looks upon her lure. Another way i have to man my haggard, to make her come and know her keeper's call. Wm. Shakespeare

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