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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 7:20:19 AM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Actually, there are some things even idiots should make themself aware of such as why their country went to war.


When you read the history of nearly any war, there is still division on the reasons for that war. Remember the discussion of the American Civil War on this board ... ten plus pages, and the more pages that were added, the more opinions differed.
 
Bottom line ... not a single person on this board, myself included, can say without question, why we went to war in Iraq. We can have opinions ... I have an opinion ... but those aren't facts.
 
So, when the word stupid gets thrown around in this matter, it is more likely that the word is being used to attack someone who's opinion differes with the attacker, or the attacker doesn't feel that everyone is entitled to an opinion.

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 8:02:46 AM   
meatcleaver


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I agree that interpreting the facts and the facts are two different things. If people are arguing while being ignorant of widely available and publicized facts, I think it is quite legitimate someone should question their intelligence.

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 8:17:55 AM   
caitlyn


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On this matter, fact are like beauty ... they are in the eye of the beholder.

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 8:20:05 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

On this matter, fact are like beauty ... they are in the eye of the beholder.


WWII didn't happen? Hitler didn't live? Interpretation is in the eye of the beholder.

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 8:22:10 AM   
caitlyn


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I don't even know how to respond to that ... I thought we were talking about Iraq.

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 8:23:38 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I don't even know how to respond to that ... I thought we were talking about Iraq.


The USA invaded Iraq. Fact or is it in the eye of the beholder?

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 8:32:31 AM   
caitlyn


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Your statement was that people should know WHY their country went to war.
 
The USA invaded Iraq because ...
 
That's the question that can't be answered with facts.
 
This is a good illustration of my OP though. You might think I'm being stupid in my responses here ... while I might think you have changed your parameters three times in seven posts.

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 8:41:13 AM   
meatcleaver


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You are relying on the fact that people aren't mind readers and cannot know what the fuck was in Bush's head, if anything.

Fact: Bush said invading Iraq was because they had WMD.

Fact: No WMD have been found since the invasion.

Interpretation: A Bush apologist might say WMD's were too well hidden.

Interpretation: A cynic might say, WMD was just an excuse and Bush is a lying bastard or that Bush was in the shithouse smoking dope when he made the decision to go to war.

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 9:12:53 AM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
You are relying on the fact that people aren't mind readers and cannot know what the fuck was in Bush's head, if anything.

Fact: Bush said invading Iraq was because they had WMD.

Fact: No WMD have been found since the invasion.

Interpretation: A Bush apologist might say WMD's were too well hidden.

Interpretation: A cynic might say, WMD was just an excuse and Bush is a lying bastard or that Bush was in the shithouse smoking dope when he made the decision to go to war.


You know those are facts for sure?
 
I don't think we really know for sure why we invaded Iraq. Living in Texas, I could make a case that we did it because Saddam made a monkey of Daddy Bush ... trust me, that is a totally Texas thing to do.
 
I don't think we even know for sure that WMD's have not been found. What we know, is that none have been reported as having been found.
 
And by the way ... I completely dispute that pointing out that we really don't know the facts, makes someone a Bush apologist.

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 9:18:31 AM   
mnottertail


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Meats two facts are correct.

Believe me, we would know if they found any WMD there, to get the monkey off Bushes back.......it would trill from the highest place in all the world...........

They had a couple spin runs at it, but they were laughed off.

Ron 

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 9:24:41 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I don't think we really know for sure why we invaded Iraq. Living in Texas, I could make a case that we did it because Saddam made a monkey of Daddy Bush ... trust me, that is a totally Texas thing to do.
 
The fact is : Bush gave WMD's as a reason for invading Iraq. Of course all the news media could be fantasists.

I don't think we even know for sure that WMD's have not been found. What we know, is that none have been reported as having been found.
 
If WMDs have been found and Bush is not telling us then perhaps he's still in the shithouse smoking dope.

And by the way ... I completely dispute that pointing out that we really don't know the facts, makes someone a Bush apologist.


I think to dispute the fact that Bush never gave WMD's as a reason for invading Iraq is not so much being an apologist but not living on the same planet as the rest of us.
 
If you think WMD's might have been found and Bush isn't telling us for some reason, you must really think he is thicker than he appears or that he is really really really smart and we will all find out when all the insurgents runaway.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/4/2006 9:25:11 AM >

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 9:28:25 AM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Meats two facts are correct.

Believe me, we would know if they found any WMD there, to get the monkey off Bushes back.......it would trill from the highest place in all the world...........

They had a couple spin runs at it, but they were laughed off.

Ron 


Again, these are not facts Ron ... just your opinion.
 
In the Second World War, much was not reported because to report it would have tipped off how the information was gathered. You may think that unlikely in this instance, but cannot just dismiss is as impossible. The case can also be made that this information is being kept until right before the next election, when a Republican will really need it. President Bush doesn't really need is now ... he is President, plain and simple. Would you dismiss this possibility, knowing how slippery our political system is?

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 9:32:52 AM   
caitlyn


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But your fact wasn't that President Bush gave them as the reason ... you presented as fact that they were the reason.
 
I don't think anyone would dispute that WMD's were given as one of the reasons that the decision was made to invade. That clearly is a fact ... but not what you presented.

Edited to add ...

Actually, I'm incorrect ... you did say that Bush gave them as a reason. My apologies ... it's me that's stupid on this one.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 10/4/2006 9:37:17 AM >

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 9:37:28 AM   
mnottertail


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That is an apologists apology, by god caitlyn.............

I admire your spunk and you are dogging it just like Powell did when he showed off that little crop duster to the UN as a WMD...........

OK, how then did the acronym WMD come about..........give me some facts. Opinion?

Additionally, I think that if the Republicans are holding off their proof of WMD
until the elections..........Well that is just to fuckin' brilliant for me to contemplate.......

Press conference called after the Republican Convention in my homestate of Minnesota in the twin cities of Minneapolis/St. Paul.

Rush Limbaugh sticks the microphone in 'Presidential hopeful' Dick Cheney's face......

R:  Tell me, Mr. President, why haven't you trotted out your proof of WMD before this convention, and put the lie to the nay sayers and Kerry supporters?

C:  We needed the votes.

That will be some fuck of a media coverage right there............


Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 9:46:07 AM   
caitlyn


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So, if someone is willing to explore all options in the search for truth and demand dead bang proof before taking a stand, they are an apologist?
 
I find that opinion rather disconcerting, and quite frankly, a little offensive.
 
By the way ... absense of truth can be a very good reason to not vote a certain way. The election isn't today ... we are none of us hurt by people being open minded. I can still be open minded today, and lacking proof or truth, cast a "throw the neocon bastards out" vote, on election day.

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 10:00:09 AM   
mnottertail


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Fact:
 
"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."
Radio Address
October 5, 2002
"The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons."
"We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."
"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States."
"The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" - his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons."
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
October 7, 2002
"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."
State of the Union Address
January 28, 2003
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
Address to the Nation
March 17, 2003
 
I am sorry that you are offended, It is not my intent, but this is not an apology either.
 
I am all for exploring options, but not accustomed to unwarrented disbelief as a euphemistic argument  forwarded as equivalent truth.
 
The jews were never in the holocaust, they were at a deli on 42nd street in new york, know why?  Because nobody here on this thread was there, and can't possibly take the word of a few million people and photographic records and avidavits as statements of fact........shit, Nuremberg was a wag the dog movie.
 
Goering  
 
 
 


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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 10:01:41 AM   
gooddogbenji


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I see'd a pic, an' this'un Caitlyn girl's gosh dang purdy, if y'all ask me, 'n bright as a spit-shined whistle.

Yers,


banjo

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 10:03:45 AM   
mnottertail


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I saw a picture of her too, once.......there ain't no doubt she is pretty and an intelligent speaker (or writer, as the case may be)

Don't mean I ain't going to argue with her.

Ron 

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 10/4/2006 10:04:05 AM >


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 10:05:50 AM   
gooddogbenji


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Well, pardner, y'all ken fuss an' fight all day, long as y'all know she's mah wife t'be.

'Sides, I likes me my wimmen feisty.

Yours,


benji

Edited fer typos.  Dang newfangled automatic typewriters.

< Message edited by gooddogbenji -- 10/4/2006 10:13:14 AM >


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Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

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RE: Thick/Thin, Hot/Not, Smart/Stupid - 10/4/2006 10:17:50 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Just to take my little spanner, wrench to you lot, out of the tool box, I always thought WMD meant improved rocket/weaponry to use to attack ISRAEL. Thats my take on what was meant. Not attack the West.

Israel, well somebody anyway lol , a few  years ago attacked a Reactor that was being built in Iraq..
For the life of me I fail to understand the problem with removing a homicidal maniac from power and then offering the locals a chance to run their own affairs.

Yes I know Saddam hated Al Queda.
Dont forget also that when the West refused to buy Iraqui oil, that upset the Liberals too.

I thought all the opposition I read here was confined to the UK.
I also think caitlyn is arguing very logically.


< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 10/4/2006 10:19:59 AM >

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