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Anger - 10/5/2006 2:51:10 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

I'm kind of a freak about pleasing and hate to be a dissapointment. It makes me feel absolutely terrible, but I can deal with it, and do what I can to make amends.

What I can't get over is when someone I'm attached to gets mad at me. Its a real deal breaker for me. It totally shuts me up and down, but I dont seem able to recover from it. The image of my object of attachment being mad just sticks there in my head, and, no matter how hard I try, I can't get over it. Its like I become afraid, and gradually distance myself from them even though I don't want to.

Sometimes I think this is an ok thing, and I even talk about it in terms of a limit, other times I think I should be more flexible. I've had this problem in both vanilla and D/s relationships, but I'm wondering if its realistic to expect a Dominant not to get mad. Does it make sense as a limit? Or is it something that I should work on?

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts. :)

Post #: 1

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 3:00:26 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

I think it is unrealistic to expect anyone not to get angry.

I think it is realistic to expect people to behave in an appropriate manner despite how they are feeling.

Is it the emotion of anger that bothers you or the behaviors demonstrated while angry? Two very different things in my opinion.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 2

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 3:02:18 PM

Aine

Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline

I agree with kyra.

Two totally different tangents...we're going to need more detail on this one.

_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 3

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 3:05:52 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

I'm kind of a freak about pleasing and hate to be a dissapointment. It makes me feel absolutely terrible, but I can deal with it, and do what I can to make amends.

What I can't get over is when someone I'm attached to gets mad at me. Its a real deal breaker for me. It totally shuts me up and down, but I dont seem able to recover from it. The image of my object of attachment being mad just sticks there in my head, and, no matter how hard I try, I can't get over it. Its like I become afraid, and gradually distance myself from them even though I don't want to.

Sometimes I think this is an ok thing, and I even talk about it in terms of a limit, other times I think I should be more flexible. I've had this problem in both vanilla and D/s relationships, but I'm wondering if its realistic to expect a Dominant not to get mad. Does it make sense as a limit? Or is it something that I should work on?

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts. :)

Hello A/all,

To answer a later question first, I personally think it is unrealistic to expect anybody to never have any sort of emotional content to their existence. People get sad, angry, cranky, grumpy, happy, giddy, whatever. In my opinion, the danger comes when people attempt to bottle it all up and then suddenly explode.

I imagine if you are having difficulty with a Dominant showing his/her/its anger, then yes, you probably should get help for it.

I wonder if the question you are asking is less about them getting angry with you, and more about them having an emotional meltdown possibly coupled with yelling, red face, possible brutality, humiliation, silent treatment, withdrawal of affection, betrayal, insults, etc., which are not done in the interest of kink. That is a different question. I am uncertain it would be possible to excise that image from your brain, because in my opinion the person is showing the one he controls and dominates that he has no control of him/her/itself. If it were me, I would look at this person whose life I trusted to care for being completely out of control and run far, run fast.

In my profile is a comment that I personally think a Dominant needs to learn how to control themselves before they can hope to control another person.

But as usual, that is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 4

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 3:06:19 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

Its the behaviors more than the emotion. The yelling, the body language and the sense that they're out of control.

I can't think of a time where someone expressed the emotion without the attendant behavior, so I'm not sure how to distinguish them.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 5

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 3:11:55 PM

MasterC46910

Posts: 108
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline

It is very unrealistic to expect someone to never get mad at you. Even if you was perfect, your perfection would upset someone at some time. Just part of human nature. If you walk out on a relationship whenever someone it angry then it is not a relationship your partner needs to be objected to. You walking out would be the best thing for them, in my humble opinion.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 6

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 3:31:58 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Its the behaviors more than the emotion. The yelling, the body language and the sense that they're out of control.

I can't think of a time where someone expressed the emotion without the attendant behavior, so I'm not sure how to distinguish them.

Hello A/all,

Well, the emotion and the behaviors are two different things. The approach I use is to simply state how I feel (angry, indifferent, horny, irritated, whatever), when person X does [blah], and then I offer up a solution (dont do it, do do it, go put on your cheerleader outfit and bring out the KY, whatever).

My submissive would hopefully stop doing behaviors that I feel negative emotions when she does them and continue to do behaviors that I feel positive about. In the case where she continues to do the former, I would start looking at possible options (couples therapy, taking time off from each other, whatever) to handle the situation.

Clear as mud?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 7

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 3:35:19 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Its the behaviors more than the emotion. The yelling, the body language and the sense that they're out of control.

I can't think of a time where someone expressed the emotion without the attendant behavior, so I'm not sure how to distinguish them.

The are a myriad of ways that someone can demonstrate anger, some more appropriate than others. In my relationship we actually have avenues to express anger in constructive ways. My Lord and I both have strong tempers and we have discussed at length the best ways to express our anger.

Which behaviors are you most uncomfortable with? What do you think is an apprpriate way to express anger? Have you communicated any of your concerns with your dominant?

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 8

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 3:39:00 PM

Smythe

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Its the behaviors more than the emotion. The yelling, the body language and the sense that they're out of control.

I can't think of a time where someone expressed the emotion without the attendant behavior, so I'm not sure how to distinguish them.

not to go all Freud-y on you, gypsygrl, but it sounds like you've had experiences in the past that were negative enough to form your current fear of angry behavior. While I agree that you cannot ask someone not to get angry, you can ask them not to be physically scary and threatening.

Maybe you can figure out where this whole thing started, and begin to fear it less.

Smythe

_____________________________

Do not consider painful what is good for you.
Euripides

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 9

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 3:39:40 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

You can't be blamed for hating the behaviour that comes from the anger that you witness. It seems that the people you have been around all your life seem to express their anger in that manner.
As a child, you don't have much choice if your parents are that way, but as an adult you can choose to be with people who don't react in a way that frightens you, and choose not to be with people who do react in that manner. Something to think about.

_____________________________

Boycott Whales!

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 10

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 3:52:49 PM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

Please keep in mind that many people find it easier to express anger than they can express other emotions. For example, one of the phases of grief is anger because it's a more familiar emotion than utter grief and sadness. i had to take a look at myself many years ago and found that i expressed anger in situations where i was actually fearful. It's natural to see anger as a "strong" emotion and sadness or fear as "weak" emotions. Maybe, when your beloved is mad, ask yourself if He could possibly be feeling something else but expressing it with anger? Just a thought.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 11

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 4:07:33 PM

NastyDaddy

Posts: 957
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

I'm kind of a freak about pleasing and hate to be a dissapointment. It makes me feel absolutely terrible, but I can deal with it, and do what I can to make amends.

What I can't get over is when someone I'm attached to gets mad at me. Its a real deal breaker for me. It totally shuts me up and down, but I dont seem able to recover from it. The image of my object of attachment being mad just sticks there in my head, and, no matter how hard I try, I can't get over it. Its like I become afraid, and gradually distance myself from them even though I don't want to.

Sometimes I think this is an ok thing, and I even talk about it in terms of a limit, other times I think I should be more flexible. I've had this problem in both vanilla and D/s relationships, but I'm wondering if its realistic to expect a Dominant not to get mad. Does it make sense as a limit? Or is it something that I should work on?

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts. :)

Basically you are ready to do what you can to make amends, but you become afraid and distance yourself from them, both nilla and D/s.

What is the source of the anger trigger, is it a redundant or recurrent trigger... or just any lil' thing trigger?

Is it possible the anger also makes them distance themselves from you, even though they don't want to?

On the surface it sounds like somebody showing their ass when angry. But it seems like your concern may be in the long pregnant pauses of silence following displays of anger in your relationships... that this is when you most feel disappointment. Am I close, or were all those guys just nut cases you are actually better off away from?

_____________________________

"You may be right, I may be crazy... but I may just be the lunatic you're looking for!"

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 12

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 4:15:28 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

imma have to go with Estring and Smythe on this. To add in also that there are ALOT of ways to express anger with out it becoming volatile. One can become quiet in anger, one can ignore the offending party and i'm sure tons of other ways too. Maybe some other folks can offer up other alternatives them explosive ways to deal with anger.

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 13

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 4:19:17 PM

charismagirrl

Posts: 297
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline

i can soooo relate to your fear. mine comes from really bad and scary past experiences. If someone were to yell at me, especially my Daddy i think i'd turn into a ball of tears in a fetal position.

That being said, i can't expect that i won't disappoint my Daddy or make him mad and i can't control His emotions if he were to get mad. The thing i learned, since you can't change the angry behaviors, is to make sure you make the less anger prone choices. my Daddy hates yelling of any kind and just isn't a violent person, so if he were angry he said he'd most likely be quiet for awhile and sarcastic and then talk to me about it and then get over it

Just a thought, rather than trying to "limit" the behavior and emotion, limit yourself when making choices.

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 14

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 4:20:17 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

Ok, I understand the distinction between feeling an emotion and expressing it in appropriate ways. I think my sense behind my question is that I know its unrealistic to expect someone never to feel anger at me, or anyone else but, at the same time, I can't accept being the target of angry behavior. Frankly, it scares me.

Sinergy, your description of out of control behavior captures exactly what I'm talking about.

MasterC46910, no, I don't walk out everytime someone gets upset with me and I'm not really talking about someone being upset with me. But, youre right that if its a problem with a particular person, I should take my leave for the sake of everyone involved.

kyraofMysts, its mostly yelling, stalking around and slamming things, threats and brooding silence. Just those things that make me feel like an explosion is about to happen.

Smythe, I'm pretty sure how/where this started and yes it does go way back, but knowing that doesn't seem to change it.

Estring, thank you for your comments. :) I'm trying to work out precisely where I can realistically expect to excercise choice.

eyesopened, I do this all the time. I really do. Its my gut reaction and I try to be understanding, but I still cant get past it.

I'm not partnered up, and am not talking about anyone specific. It's a block I know I have from past experience. In my previous relationship, my Dominant would get very angry and threatening, and though we tried to work through it, I was eventually so afraid of him I had to end it. My ex-husband also would get very angry and drive like a maniac and slam things around and go for long periods of time refusing to talk to me without telling me what I did. (after seeing a therapist for a long time, I've come to accept that I probably didn't do anything)

One of the things I'm realizing as I write this is one of the things that scares me is the way I get sucked into other people's engergy flows and one of the things I'm trying to do when I distance myself is prevent that. Its like if they lose control, I have to keep it. This was what was always happening with my previous Dominant, and I still do it alot with my ex-husband.

It gives me alot to think about and I don't want to get involved again until I have a way of talking about this particular qwirk. :)

(in reply to MasterC46910)

Post #: 15

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 4:28:46 PM

topcat

Posts: 1675
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Tidewater, VA
Status: offline

Dear GG-

I think it's very important that you learn to allow your partners a full range of emotion. As it stands now, you are describing an incredibly toxic form of passive agressive control behavior...

Stay warm,
Lawrence

_____________________________

-there is no remission without blood-

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 16

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 4:34:31 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

I'm not partnered up, and am not talking about anyone specific. It's a block I know I have from past experience. In my previous relationship, my Dominant would get very angry and threatening, and though we tried to work through it, I was eventually so afraid of him I had to end it. My ex-husband also would get very angry and drive like a maniac and slam things around and go for long periods of time refusing to talk to me without telling me what I did. (after seeing a therapist for a long time, I've come to accept that I probably didn't do anything)

One of the things I'm realizing ..........

One of the things I am realizing is that you have entered into two seperate relationships that you describe the person as demonstrating anger in an unacceptable manner for you. I think you need to ask yourself why you entered into such relationships? I thiink you need to look into yourself and understand why you made these poor choices. Hopefully, looking within yourself, you will beable to avoid making the mistake a third time.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 17

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 4:48:29 PM

LTRsubNW

Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

I'm kind of a freak about pleasing and hate to be a dissapointment. It makes me feel absolutely terrible, but I can deal with it, and do what I can to make amends.

What I can't get over is when someone I'm attached to gets mad at me. Its a real deal breaker for me. It totally shuts me up and down, but I dont seem able to recover from it. The image of my object of attachment being mad just sticks there in my head, and, no matter how hard I try, I can't get over it. Its like I become afraid, and gradually distance myself from them even though I don't want to.

Sometimes I think this is an ok thing, and I even talk about it in terms of a limit, other times I think I should be more flexible. I've had this problem in both vanilla and D/s relationships, but I'm wondering if its realistic to expect a Dominant not to get mad. Does it make sense as a limit? Or is it something that I should work on?

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts. :)

Chill.

(in reply to gypsygrl)

Post #: 18

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 5:16:14 PM

julietsierra

Posts: 1841
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: topcat

Dear GG-

I think it's very important that you learn to allow your partners a full range of emotion. As it stands now, you are describing an incredibly toxic form of passive agressive control behavior...

Stay warm,
Lawrence

Reading her first post, I'd tend to agree with you. However, upon reading subsequent posts, I find I quite agree with her. I wouldn't call it passive aggressive either unless what was causing the anger was being glossed over because someone was afraid of getting angry.

However, in my life, I call it choosing who and how I will be interacting with people. This is a choice I make for myself. If someone who professes to care about me can do no more than yell at me when he's upset, then I absolutely choose not to interact with that person.

People here thought I was crazy too - right up until I met my Master. Three years and we've had our ups and downs. However, what has remained consistent throughout those years is the dedication BOTH of us have to no drama. We do strange things like talk things through. We intentionally use active listening techniques. One of us speaks; the other one listens. Then, before stating the opposite side, the listener paraphrases what he or I heard. "What I hear you saying is..."

We BOTH approach this relationship from the point of view that neither of us are going anywhere, so we have lots of time to get difficulties discussed. This means that instead of pushing an issue, we talk until things get too tense and then we step back from the issue and talk about it later when we're calmer. In three years, we've never pushed anything under the carpet.

The difference in how we handle things means that we don't reach solutions, resolutions or compromises (if there are any) over night. And we've had some doozies to take care of. One of those situations lasted six months before we were able to work through all of it. Those six months were worth every second. We learned a lot about ourselves and we learned a lot about each other. And in those six months, we didn't stop enjoying each other in different activities other than the one that presented the problem. Once it was resolved, we picked up where we left off in that activity and have never stopped since.

And I don't think that at any time, were either of us prohibited from experiencing a full range of emotions. We were just prohibited by our sense of ethics in a relationship from how those emotions were expressed.

Just because someone chooses not to engage in the drama of a full blown anger fest does not make them passive aggressive. Passive aggressiveness, in my world, means doing something intentionally to either get away with something or make someone else angry while still maintaining this semblence of innocence.

I'll come out and tell my Master I'm angry and hurt and many other things. I'll tell him why without accusing him. I'll listen to what he has to say - even if he's not agreeing with me. If I see his point, I'll agree with it. If I don't, I don't, and we'll keep on talking.

It's sometimes the most difficult thing to do, but so worth it in the long run.

juliet

< Message edited by julietsierra -- 10/5/2006 5:19:54 PM >

(in reply to topcat)

Post #: 19

RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 5:29:05 PM

gypsygrl

Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline

Topcat, I'm not sure how what I'm describing would be considered a passive/agressive attempt to control others. The very fact that I'm working this over would seem to take it out of that area as it's my understanding that passive/agressives don't have a lot of insight into their emotional dynamics.

KnightsofMists, yeah, I hear that! When I ended my previous relationship a year ago, I got a therapist for that reason because it dawned on my that I had 'done it again.'

NastyDaddy, I don't know. I'm thinking of the fear right now. If someone shows dissapointment without acting angry, it bothers me terribly, but I can deal with it and still function changing my behavior if its appropriate and possible (in regular everyday interaction, it may not be but in a D/s sort of interaction, it usually is appropriate). As soon as someone starts yelling at me because they're mad, or doing something similar, I cease to become even functional and just shut down and it leaves a lasting impression. There could be another issue there lurking.

Riotgirl, it is often hard to come up with ways to show anger without being scary. One thing I do with my sons when I feel mad is go over to them, hug them really tight and kiss them on each cheek and tell them I love them.

(in reply to LTRsubNW)

Post #: 20

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