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RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 5:46:22 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Its the behaviors more than the emotion.  The yelling, the body language and the sense that they're out of control.

I can't think of a time where someone expressed the emotion without the attendant behavior, so I'm not sure how to distinguish them.



Hello A/all,

I suspect that is your answer.  I would recommend the person having repeated emotional meltdowns should take anger management classes and/or get counseling to deal with their anger issues.

Sadly, this will probably result in the anger reaction which anger management
classes would teach the person how to avoid having.

I am not sure what advice to give you about him.  This person will be this way (no matter how much they promise not to) until they get help and counseling and training to learn a different way of doing things.  Additionally, even that wont help
unless the person wants to change their behavior.

For you, the problem is a bit more complex, in my opinion.  From what you have posted, this (men having emotional meltdowns towards you) has been normative your entire life.  Accordingly, your brain (limbic system, specifically) may have been wired to expect this sort of behavior at a very subconscious level.  What might be happening to you is that you are subconsciously attracted to men who treat you this way, and seek out relationships with them.  Additionally, if this person does become calm and stops having emotional meltdowns, you might find that you are no longer attracted to them.

Perhaps some form of counseling, specifically about relationship issues, would be helpful for you in changing the way you enter into and have relationships.  Additionally, perhaps a kink friendly marraige counselor could help the two of you find some form of resolution.

Good luck!

But this is just me, and I could be wrong.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 6:14:38 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		Sinergy, I agree with what you say about my brain being wired a certain way, except that it's no longer 'subconscious,' and I'm not really attracted by anger.  Instead, I do some kind of weird bonding thing that I can't really control.  I can be literally scared into a relationship if I'm not careful.  (I call it being captured)  Early on in my explorations with D/s someone brought this to my attention as an attachment issue and I've been trying to learn different ways of sustaining attachment and am in therapy.  I now know that if someone tries to pressure or intimidate me into an interaction or sets off any alarms early on, to walk away instead of draw closer. (duh, right?)

I'm also not currently in a relationship.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 8:03:12 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline 		This was the one major deal breaker I had when talking to possible doms. It's probably the subject I asked him the most questions about. When he had last gotten angry, how he had expressed it etc. Because I'm not interested in someone who comes home after a bad day and uses me as his whipping boy.

About all you can do is ask a lot of questions about this before you get into a deeper relationship. Ask about their last job, their last relationship, how their parents fought etc.

Even so, I didn't really believe his answers. They seemed right enough that I tentatively began seeing him but I watched him in all situations to check. Did he get snippy if the waitress didn't refill his coffee or did he just take steps to catch her eye and get another cup? That sort of thing.

However you do need to tell prospective partners upfront that if they are the type to yell and scream and get it all out, the classic Italian family so to speak, that you won't be compatible. They need to know what's going on so they can reassure you that even though he's upset, he isn't losing it. I find another way to handle the arguments that do occur is to ask him to hold me during. I don't feel afraid when he holds me, and he doesn't get nearly as upset. The physical touch reaffirms both of us that the relationship is still strong. We calm down faster and can start talking about the problem easier.

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 8:10:49 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

This was the one major deal breaker I had when talking to possible doms. It's probably the subject I asked him the most questions about. When he had last gotten angry, how he had expressed it etc. Because I'm not interested in someone who comes home after a bad day and uses me as his whipping boy.

About all you can do is ask a lot of questions about this before you get into a deeper relationship. Ask about their last job, their last relationship, how their parents fought etc.


Yeah but theyre not going to admit that they have anger management problems.  I knew one like this too, and I'll tell ya, it doesnt take long to peg it for what it is and hightail it outta there.  Everyone has emotions and bad days and such.  But I personally cannot handle out-of-control type of anger. It scares me.


_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 8:36:40 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline 		Anger from others directed at ourselves is an emotion that we all have to deal with from time to time.  We cannot expect that people will be content with us 100% of the time.  I hate when people are angry at me, it makes me feel terrible, and with some people...  it brings up bad triggers from my past.  However, even when I have angered my Master, I know that we should be able to work through it.  I have irritated Him a few times, completely unintentionally...  but He just takes a few minutes to get Himself together before He fusses at me or gets visibly mad.  I am thankful for that, because He saw what can happen to me emotionally when unbridled anger is directed at me.  I either fight back with enormous zeal, or I fall apart, into a shaking bundle of nerves.  I'm never really sure which it will be...  but I trust my Master to deal with me honestly and tell me what He is feeling without crushing me...

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 8:57:58 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

This was the one major deal breaker I had when talking to possible doms. It's probably the subject I asked him the most questions about. When he had last gotten angry, how he had expressed it etc. Because I'm not interested in someone who comes home after a bad day and uses me as his whipping boy.

About all you can do is ask a lot of questions about this before you get into a deeper relationship. Ask about their last job, their last relationship, how their parents fought etc.

Even so, I didn't really believe his answers. They seemed right enough that I tentatively began seeing him but I watched him in all situations to check. Did he get snippy if the waitress didn't refill his coffee or did he just take steps to catch her eye and get another cup? That sort of thing.

However you do need to tell prospective partners upfront that if they are the type to yell and scream and get it all out, the classic Italian family so to speak, that you won't be compatible. They need to know what's going on so they can reassure you that even though he's upset, he isn't losing it. I find another way to handle the arguments that do occur is to ask him to hold me during. I don't feel afraid when he holds me, and he doesn't get nearly as upset. The physical touch reaffirms both of us that the relationship is still strong. We calm down faster and can start talking about the problem easier.


Hello A/all,

I am not sure it is the sort of thing you can ask.

1)  The person may be dishonest and tell you lies.

2)  The person may honestly believe they never behave a certain way.

The questions about how their parents interacted, what happened in their
previous relationships, how they feel about [blah] may give you some insight into
their behavior.  But the only true determining factor is one you need to give time
to experience.

I was seeing somebody who was out with somebody on the first date that yelled at a 9 year old.  That was their last date.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 8:58:59 PM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		I never get angry at friends.  I stay away from people who get angry. 
I have neer seen any of my friends ever get angry. 

_____________________________



(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Anger - 10/5/2006 10:07:42 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		Master and i are both very much believers in the concept that One must be in control of Oneself before taking control of others. That applies to Me in My Domme mode too, but here i will talk mostly about my responses as a sub.

While i am definitely NOT a brat and am very much wired to be obedient and pleasing to Master, i am also more likely to be snappy than Master is. It's my anger or "showing off" that usually provokes His. Fortunately, He is by nature a calm Man (and yes, that factored into my choosing to associate with Him), and His usual response is to frown, speak more coolly, and remind me sharply who i am speaking to. That works so well, even if i feel justified in my original "beef", i know i have overstepped the mark in how i am expressing that emotion and i am immediately chastened and say sorry. He calms immediately too, and then W/we discuss what triggered the outburst. And yes, W/we do the active listening thing too, making sure W/we are on the same page. More often than not i realise i was actually upset by something else and He wore the brunt of it when He inadvertently added "the last straw".

On the occasions (fortunately rare!) where i have disappointed Him (but not had an outburst), then He expresses His disappointment, not anger. He does so with a reproachful look, and actually uses the words "I am disappointed with you pet, I expected ..." So the key is to calmly express the actual emotion that's being felt, not just to lash out. It can be done ... you need to find a Dominant who is capable of doing that. Which, as you have written, may require you to analyse why you have so far been attracted to the "wrong types".  Initially Master found my response to His disappointment a bit hard to handle, as i seemed devastated beyond the seriousness of the "crime" ... now He realises that is a genuine response and is quick to reassure me of His continued love and gently talks about how a similar situation can be avoided in future. you probably need to discuss your reactions to disappointment and "hot anger" ahead of time too.

Master's no saint, and i have seen Him in 2 angry outbursts (2 years apart), not directed at me though. They were due to gross unfairness being shown to Him (involving deliberate destruction of His property, a lot of snide remarks and ignoring of His hints to desist) at what should be a hobby club (where some of the younger members with more $ than sense think nothing of destroying someone else's stuff in order to win themselves). On O/our limited budget, replacing expensive equipment is not easy. In those two outbursts He shouted and swore, got red in the face, the first time He threw down His own equipment (already broken so it didn't really matter) ... the typical angry stuff. i was upset for Him, but not upset with Him, i was more upset as other people there might think He is routinely like this, whereas it is so atypical. i don't fear that He will do that with me as i know i would never aggravate Him to that degree without getting (and obeying!) a warning to desist. He felt badly after both of those outbursts (He hated the fact that He lost control to a degree) and is choosing now to give up that hobby unless/until He can find a more respectful group of people to join with.

In summary, what i am saying is that you probably won't find a Man who is guaranteed never to blow up, i don't think such a guarantee could be given about any flesh and blood person ... but you should be able to find One who knows how to express His emotions appropriately and accurately most of the time and who will give warning so you know to back down rather than escalate the conflict, whilst also knowing that the issue won't disappear but will be discussed calmly as soon as possible.

Good luck!
violet[A] aka MaamJay

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 12:23:55 AM   
closertonova


Posts: 50
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline 		so :
disclaimer
!there is a lot of healthy ways to deal with things!
Gypsygrl
i hear you might just really be sensitive to the escalation process of your partners, so maybe what you need to ask straight up is how a person acts in anger, i have had the pleasure of 19 years living in a house ripe with anger and pain and frustration but lucky me i spent about 10 of those years talking things out with a theripist.  but a person can realisticly never scream, yell, break stuff, hurt you or treat you like crap, I personally learned to leave, i walk out of the situation and think or just ask for a few min of quite to myself and i sort it all out, yes most of it comes from fear or hurt, or dissapointment, i figure out what is me, and what is from the situation and i break it down, usually when people see me get mad i use logic and work things out, so i guess my advice is to look at what you do, who are you dating and ask frankly how they deal with anger if its a hot issue with you say something and make sure when things escalate you have some safe place, maybe a room or a park, some where you can go that just for you that your partner respects, gives the situation time to cool of and him time to regain his temper and gives you an easy out and may help you deal better. communication is all you can work for, make sure you feel safe and protected and make sure that anything that might flip you out is on the table early on.

wish you the best of luck and a world filled with joy on your adventure called life

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 1:02:11 AM   
needstheOne


Posts: 44
Joined: 10/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hi new here but not to R/l BDSM.

From my experience as a slave for ten years i've learn't this:

That no matter how good you are you will always fail in some way and for this you shall be punished.

In the begining my one and only Mistress took time to find out what made me tick. She found that when she yelled she got worse results because I was scared. So we sat down and had a long talk and came up with this idea.

When I've done something minor wrong instead of yelling we would discuss it useing the "I feel, because, and what they would like to change." plan. This worked very well. We also agreed that most of Her bitching, yelling, and fits about work would happen on the way home from work so as i would know they weren't dirrected at me. This too worked most of the time but sometimes scared me a bit.

Then there is the time that you do something major wrong. IE: Burn the dinner just before a major party, crash the car, or get REAL lazy for three or four daysand let the house goto pot. The punishment for that, because beatings of all sorts were pleasure to me, was to be ignored and not allowed to please her in ANY way. But the catch and the most fearful part of this punishment, for me at least , was that She wouldn't tell me WHEN it would end.

So maybe you could talk to Him and see and tell Him how you feel each time he yells at you. And you can figure out a less hostile way to deal with things.

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 7:15:09 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		I can deal with people with all kinds of emotional and mental health problems.  The
one type of person I can't tolerate is people who easily get angry.  Life is too
short to be angry or to be around angry people.  

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 11:00:12 AM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		Being angry isn't all that bad, it's how people act while being angry that messes us up. 

The chemicals associated with anger response can alter perceptions and clear thinking.. i should mention that as an obvious, and the physiology of clenching jaws or fists only stimulates anger response.  The muscles get a buildup of energy, and yes, the remote can fly into the lamp.   Some of us are conditioned to think WE might be "the lamp" and react in either fight or flight.  Once you loose the fear you might be the lamp, you'll stop retreating into flight stance.

Maybe you just need to realise that not ALL males get physical when they are angry..   and also, not all males who DO get physical when angry transfer that to the people around them.  My Hubby might break a lamp with a remote  (used to happen a once a year or so til He got tired enough of replacing lamps and remotes)   but i've never been in danger.  i used to be very afraid during his outbursts, but now, i know it's HIS outburst, and even if i am the cause of His anger, i won't be the target of it. 

Doesn't make it "acceptable" just because i'm safe.  It's still a stupid unproductive way to make a point, and He's learning that.  Even O/our kids know that well enough that we can joke while He's having a cow "Oh, Dads gone to stress-land, woo-hoo!"  the mocking joke my daughter started really made Him feel silly and that moderated His acting out.  i have to say, using D/s as a way to get the controls He obviously wants, but couldn't express properly has helped incredibly!





(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 1:43:03 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		It is not realistic to set "don't get mad" as a limit.  You could state particular things that just are not okay with you, no matter how angry.  I would be very specific.  Typical things might be it is not okay call me names, to swear at me, to get close and yell in my face, to throw things, etc.

Even "don't yell" is hard because we all raise our voices sometimes.  I would sit and think about what makes specifically makes you feel so horrible or gives you the idea the anger is out of control -- and then focus on replacement strategies for those.

I see you are not in a relationship now, which is kind of a good thing IMO.  It is sometimes easier to choose a partner that manages anger well than to try and change/help a partner that manages it poorly.

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 2:47:17 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		 I'm 100% ok with a *mad man*......if I AM the legitimate target.

My Master has pretty good aim.

agirl



(in reply to Sensualips)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 3:10:47 PM   
SassySue


Posts: 54
Joined: 2/12/2006
Status: offline 		Just a question gypsygirl... when you experienced anger before ( go back to your earliest memory), what was your belief?  What did you take into yourself as a belief for yourself?  Think about it now.. is that the belief you want to hold in your heart?  You can create a new belief system for yourself.  I wish you well.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 3:35:34 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

 I'm 100% ok with a *mad man*......if I AM the legitimate target.

My Master has pretty good aim.

agirl


LMAO.   ::: picks up ass ::

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 5:04:03 PM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		> Being angry isn't all that bad, it's how people act while
> being angry that messes us up.

When a friend or partner does something I dislike, I may get
disappointed, but I never get angry.   I have never seen any
of my friends display any sign of anger, and I never display
any sign of anger with friends or with a partner.  I don't like
being around people who are angry.    

I don't care how people who are angry act or do with their
anger, I just don't like that emotion.  I don't like to have it,
and I don't like to see it in others.
 
When someone around me is angry, I feel their anger
because I am super empathic.  Second-hand anger
can shorten your life.  I literially have to flee people
who are angry.  It weakens and nauseates me.  It
causes my adrenalin to flow, and raises my blood-
pressure.  I am not easily provoked to anger. 
 
Once a police officer tried to provoke me.  He
kept shoving me, and jabbing his finger into
my chest real hard.  I remained perfectly calm
and unaffected, and he eventually got tired of
shoving me around. Later I made a complaint
with his Internal Affairs Department.



_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 6:14:52 PM   
SirMoi


Posts: 12
Joined: 8/9/2004
Status: offline 		Anger is a natural human emotion, but how the anger is expressed can be destructive. I would simply accept the fact that anger is natural, and focus on how it is expressed and how it makes you feel. If you're so sensitive that any anger makes you want to run, you'll be runnning all of your life. If, on the other hand, you can learn to deal with healthy expressions of  anger, but can run away from unhealthy expressions of anger, you'll have a happier life.

My 2 cents worth.

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 6:21:42 PM   
TxBadMan


Posts: 198
Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Moody, Texas
Status: offline
quote:

but I'm wondering if its realistic to expect a Dominant not to get mad.  Does it make sense as a limit?  Or is it something that I should work on?


There is not a single person in the world who has not felt anger at some time or another. Expecting your partner to NEVER get angry or upset is highly unrealistic and selfish.

If you want to make such an expectation a limit, that is your choice. However, I can almost guarantee that it will limit your choices to 0.

It is my opinion that your inability to  deal with normal human responses directed at you should be addressed, the reasons as to why discovered, and then worked on dillegently.

No one is perfect; we all have certain little things that cause us pain. The difference is recognizing them and then doing what you can to control them.



_____________________________

Chris



(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Anger - 10/6/2006 6:22:28 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I really appreciate all your comments as its helped me get a handle on how to approach this.  I'm thinking right now that it's pretty important to get the issue out in the open early on and then just be careful and continually assess how I feel in interacting with individual Dominants and to make sure they're at least willing to discuss whatever discomfort I'm having.

Equally important is for me to distinguish between the emotion and the behavioral expression.  In all honesty, I dont know if I consistantly do that but I agree that failing to keep that distinction clear in my head can be really dangerous and corrosive.  And, its a little immature to be hyper-concerned with whether or not someone's mad at me, if they don't seem threatening.  Better to confront the issue thats irritating them.

It also makes sense to avoid casual scenes in which Dominant/Tops seek to consciously incorporate elements of anger, violence or other things that strike me as scary in the way I'm talking about into their play.  That makes perfect sense to me as a limit, the more I think about it, especially in the absence of an ongoing relationship.



(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 40
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