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RE: Anger - 3/4/2008 5:08:22 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Owner4, for people who tend to shut down when someone is upset with them, there are a couple of useful tricks. First is to remember to tell her before, several times during and also after that you still love her and you want to work this out. The other thing is that holding her is very helpful. If you stand across the room and tell her things coldly, she will still shut down. If you have your arms around her, reminding her that you're upset at the action but you still care for her, it goes a lot better.

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RE: Anger - 3/4/2008 10:48:06 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		I see this thread has resurrected and I reread it. I stand by what I said already ... in that it is possible to manifest anger in a more positive way and take time out to cool off before talking out the problem. A few months ago, as Master and i were beginning to work together musically (a bit of a tricky situation initially in terms of who was leading who with Our equivalent past experience) ... We had an argument. i got snappy (but not yelling) first and He got mad. Recognising it, He said, "I am getting angry, I don't want to lose control so you will go to your room and think things through and I will go outside and do the same. We will talk about it when We are calmer". What i didn't realise is that He went outside and attacked the weeds in the garden ... darn i wish i hadn't realised that i was in the wrong quite so quickly LOL! But when i went outside and apologised for my part in the argument, He apologised for His part (my Mum always said that both sides in a disagreement have SOMETHING to apologise for!) ... and then We discussed it, sorted it out, sat down and started again. That was on song 2 ... We've now learned about 45 songs without another disagreement! That's what i would term an appropriate way to manifest and deal with anger, whether it be seeded with frustration, disappointment, fear or whatever.

I would ask you gypsygirl, how do you deal with your own anger? With an adult I mean. When you are angry with another adult, what do you do or say? Do you do or say anything? Or do you suppress it? Is this a healthy way to go? Or are there ways to manifest your anger that are acceptable to you? Would they be equally acceptable when directed towards you from someone else who is angry with you?

If I recall, you said that when you are angry with your children you go over and kiss them and tell them you love them, I actually think that could be a bit confusing for them. It could also be a great way to teach them to incite your anger ... for then they get affection! Doesn't seem to be a positive training tool. I think you should be modelling an appropriate way to express your anger, and while PART of that is assuring them you still love them ... the other part is equally necessary and that is expressing your displeasure with what they have done. Again there is a need for separation here ... you need to separate your reaction to them as people (you still love them) from your reaction to their behaviour (you dislike and disapprove of the behaviour and don't want it to be repeated). You are possibly stunting their own ability to learn to deal with anger if you only do the first part of that in your interactions with them. I don't want this to sound critical, I am sure this is not what you are setting out to do ... but I open it up as food for thought for you since you have been open and willing to consider other perspectives (which in My book, is great :-)

Maam Jay aka violet[A] 

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RE: Anger - 3/5/2008 2:16:37 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

Ok, I understand the distinction between feeling an emotion and expressing it in appropriate ways.  I think my sense behind my question is that I know its unrealistic to expect someone never to feel anger at me, or anyone else but, at the same time, I can't accept being the target of angry behavior.  Frankly, it scares me.

Sinergy, your description of out of control behavior captures exactly what I'm talking about.

MasterC46910, no, I don't walk out everytime someone gets upset with me and I'm not really talking about someone being upset with me.  But, youre right that if its a problem with a particular person, I should take my leave for the sake of everyone involved.

kyraofMysts, its mostly yelling, stalking around and slamming things, threats and brooding silence.   Just those things that make me feel like an explosion is about to happen.

Smythe, I'm pretty sure how/where this started and yes it does go way back, but knowing that doesn't seem to change it.

Estring, thank you for your comments. :)  I'm trying to work out precisely where I can realistically expect to excercise choice.

eyesopened, I do this all the time.  I really do.  Its my gut reaction and I try to be understanding, but I still cant get past it. 

I'm not partnered up, and am not talking about anyone specific.  It's a block I know I have from past experience.  In my previous relationship, my Dominant would get very angry and threatening, and though we tried to work through it, I was eventually so afraid of him I had to end it.  My ex-husband also would get very angry and drive like a maniac and slam things around and go for long periods of time refusing to talk to me without telling me what I did.  (after seeing a therapist for a long time, I've come to accept that I probably didn't do anything)

One of the things I'm realizing as I write this is one of the things that scares me is the way I get sucked into other people's engergy flows and one of the things I'm trying to do when I distance myself is prevent that.  Its like if they lose control, I have to keep it.  This was what was always happening with my previous Dominant, and I still do it alot with my ex-husband.

It gives me alot to think about and I don't want to get involved again until I have a way of talking about this particular qwirk.  :)







May I ask if you attract a certain type of Dom? Is it the same type over and over?
I ask attract, because the situation seems to happen over and over. Therefor it is also "letting it happen".





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RE: Anger - 3/5/2008 2:21:19 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		The angry broooding types seem sexy as hell but are unstable mentally. I would run as fast as I can and then try to fix myself so I could learn to appreciate sane and stable partners.

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Anger - 3/5/2008 2:23:34 AM   
Justme696


Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

The angry broooding types seem sexy as hell but are unstable mentally. I would run as fast as I can and then try to fix myself so I could learn to appreciate sane and stable partners.

propably yes...but it is scary that a sub might attract those types over and over...and let it happen. That circle should be broken (of that is the case)


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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Anger - 3/5/2008 2:38:50 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

The angry broooding types seem sexy as hell but are unstable mentally. I would run as fast as I can and then try to fix myself so I could learn to appreciate sane and stable partners.

propably yes...but it is scary that a sub might attract those types over and over...and let it happen. That circle should be broken (of that is the case)



I attracted that type about a year ago. he was sexy as hell but completely angry and bipolar. He was a Dominant but not a good one as he was out of control. How can you be a Dom if you are out of control. It was short lived(I'm not crazy) and it was like oil and water. he screamed, I screamed back. His reactions were inappropriate to the length of time he knew me. I fled after a screaming match with a 50 year old man/child yelling out to me to "fuck off and die". When I contacted a former sub of his to find out if she had had scary experiences with him, he found out and threatened to out me at my job. Hollow words as he was already in enogh trouble with the law.

Call my experience due to subfrenzy. I have learned much and that isnt my typical type. But I do understand getting sucked into that energy. The drama of it all.The bad boy.

Frankly men of honor are in control and trustworthy .I feel very fortunate to havea Good and caring Dom in my life. I deserve that. 

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to Justme696)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Anger - 3/5/2008 4:28:00 AM   
TracyTaken


Posts: 615
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
quote:

kyraofMysts, its mostly yelling, stalking around and slamming things, threats and brooding silence. Just those things that make me feel like an explosion is about to happen.


That behavhior is a threat of violence (even without spoken threats).  I would interpret it as coming from someone who was out of control and potentially dangerous.  Even in a non intimate relationship, I have a hard time dealing with people who behave that way.   Imagine someone behaving that way in a Post Office ... I'd be diving for the floor.   

But, I also have a hard time when my husband is angry, and he's the quiet Swede type who angers neither quickly nor loudly.  It is childhood stuff for me.  What I've had to do is pound into my own head that his anger is his deal.  It doesn't belong to me.  At that point, I work on my issue (feeling like I have to fix his anger), and leave him in peace to deal with his.

Ironically, I am the more hot tempered between us and more likely to go off out of temper, although it usually is a long process from bugged to boom.  It usually involves not eating, and plummeting blood sugar, etc.

(in reply to gypsygrl)
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RE: Anger - 3/5/2008 5:59:59 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

If I recall, you said that when you are angry with your children you go over and kiss them and tell them you love them, I actually think that could be a bit confusing for them. It could also be a great way to teach them to incite your anger ... for then they get affection! Doesn't seem to be a positive training tool. I think you should be modelling an appropriate way to express your anger, and while PART of that is assuring them you still love them ... the other part is equally necessary and that is expressing your displeasure with what they have done.


Actually I agree with her and so does my pediatrician and my psychologist and my oldest's psychiatrist. They all agree that when ums act most unloving is when they are most in need of love. I find this is true of adults also. We become offensive because we feel defensive. If we are reassured and don't need to defend ourselves, then we won't need to be on the offensive either.

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RE: Anger - 3/5/2008 5:18:06 PM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Living in fear of someones anger getting out of control is one of the hardest things I have ever had to deal with in my life.
The first time I had to end the relationship the second time he hit me.
The second time I helped my partner to deal with his anger in a more effective way after years of walking on eggshells to try and avoid making him angry.
It took a lot of hard work and trust on both our parts.
However finding a partner can be very difficult in the first place so sometimes it's worth the work. The more often I have a relationship that doesn't work out the harder it gets to trust enough to form one. I also wonder whether the lifestyle attracts people with real problems or whether we are just better at acknowledging them than vanilla people.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Anger - 3/6/2008 1:16:38 AM   
ThistleDown


Posts: 51
Joined: 1/15/2008
Status: offline 		This is a problem I struggle with a lot! It took me a while to realize that it's not actually the anger that bothers me but the way a person behaves when they're angry. Due to some unfortunate past experiences, I'd learned that anyone who "loves" me will behave violently towards me when they're angry and that the more a person "loved" me the easier it would be to anger them (because they have so much invested in me, how dare I do anything displeasing in the slightest?) Anyway, I'm just now learning to get over that.

I've discovered the best thing for me is to acknowledge my fear (I might say to myself, "yes, puppy, you're scared and it sucks that _____ is angry with you") but then I put that on the back burner and deal with the problem. When the problem that caused the anger is resolved, I then open up the issue of my lingering troubles. Being clear about how you feel and why (even if it's as simple as "I'm scared that you're angry and I don't know why") will help your significant other understand, or at least recognize, your problem and from that they can help with giving support and helping to find a solution.
I discovered with my Master that I had to tell him "I need to hear only good feedback when I'm scared like this" because he was doing the realistic thing ("this is the good stuff but don't forget the possible [negative] repercussions of situation x, y or z"), so you may need to analyze yourself a little and figure out what sorts of language or actions would best help you resolve the feelings because your SO might not be able to figure it out on their own.
Also, it helps to remember to breathe a lot (take a few minutes just to relax and do that regularly) and also, every time negative thoughts or feelings concerning the situation start overwhelming you, take a really deep breath (or yawn really big) and counteract the feelings/thoughts with positive self-talk ("it's going to be ok, I know we can work it out") then let all your air out. (If that doesn't work the first time, you can keep with the self talk & slow breathing, but don't keep with the deep breathing that way or you'll hyperventilate and that's all kinds of scary).

This is all somewhat specific to my experiences and, as a somewhat relevant note; my Master has yet to actually become angry with me. So far, it's all been in my silly insecure head, but usually the shutting down and overwhelmed feelings occur because something has happened that makes me think he's angry… so I would assume this process works for when people really are angry -as I treat the two (thinking someone's angry vs. really angering someone) the same.

Ok. so if that hasn't totally confused you, I'll be pleased. I hope this was helpful at least a little. It's a bit more about fear, but you can replace the word fear with shame, sadness, or whatever. I know that whole “self talk” thing is kinda cliché and it’s weird at first, but it works once you get the hang of it. Good luck!
~puppy

edited to say: if you're dealing with a person whose anger you have to fear, then these things might not work. This is a model of how I'm learning to adjust to a healthier relationship after experiencing that kind of anger.

< Message edited by ThistleDown -- 3/6/2008 1:21:03 AM >

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Anger - 3/6/2008 4:24:14 AM   
CNJDom


Posts: 186
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Southern NJ
Status: offline 		It's not so much the anger of others more than how you reacting to that anger.  The "fight or flight" response for you is stuck on flight right now.  Equating anger with rejection or "turning" into a monster to distance yourself from  is a learned response that may keep you safe, but it may also impair relationships for the rest of your life.  You may be ready to flinch at the first sign of agressive behavior, and that is not being true to the person you're engaged with...and it's not fair to yourself.  This sounds like something from the past has happened that's put this response you are experience now in the forefront.  My first response would be to get some help on dealing with it.  In aversion therapy, one is exposed gradually to what they fear in a controlled environment to diminish the effects of that fear until they are able to deal with it without fear.  This is something that you can overcome.  There are people out there that can experience anger without ACTING in anger.  There are those that can show agressive emotions and not be agressive.  And you can be around anger without getting damaged.  This is also a trust issue as well.  Good luck with it in anycase. 


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RE: Anger - 3/6/2008 4:38:30 AM   
MissLily


Posts: 146
Joined: 8/19/2007
Status: offline 		Well if it's the behaviour that turns you off, then it's one thing. There's way to express oneself. I get angry often enough, but I have yelled very few times. There's a constructive way to express the emotions.

But still, it's unrealistic to expect people to get angry. Are you a people pleaser so that you won't have to deal with the anger?

You can't please people all the time in either world. It strikes My as being somewhat immature and like a magic thought...

Perhaps you should wonder where this comes from. If it's a deal breaker for you, then you bound to have trouble to maintain a relationship.

Miss Lily

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Anger - 3/6/2008 5:32:23 AM   
ladytosirdragon


Posts: 11
Joined: 3/5/2008
Status: offline 		Gypsy: A Dom should express their dissappointment or disapproval of what youve done,and guide you in steps to correct said action,A Dom should not react in anger or make you afraid.As for your personal relationships,if you have a Dom/Domme suggest to them that this is omething that needs attention in your life,an area that needs work,perhaps with the proper guidance and love this problem can be worked out,it is hard to reach your limits if there are stumbling blocks in the way.Best of luck to you...Ladytosirdragon

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