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unknowndesires -> confused (10/6/2006 5:33:10 AM)
hello to A/all...as i am new here i have alot of questions that need to be answered but will start with just one... if you knew from the start your sub/slave was straight...would you try to change her or force her to be with another woman?

MrDiscipline44 -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 5:43:56 AM)
If it was a desire of mine and I told her before we got involved, yes, I would. Doms don't always take a sub/slave because of who they are, but what they can become.

Celeste43 -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 5:50:41 AM)
I always think this is an example of utter rudeness. If he decided to bring another woman in and demanded I act in a sexual manner with her, I might submit but I would not enjoy myself, I would find what I was doing offensive, she would know immediately that I found her distasteful and unpleasant. So how could this theoretical other woman enjoy the encounter when she knew that I found sex with her to be the most disgusting thing possible? I also would not enjoy myself and would make it clear that her touching me made my skin creep. What kind of enjoyment would there be for anyone in a situation where I was obviously unhappy if not actively vomiting? When a dom/me says he/she is going to do this, despite the feelings of their sub I always wonder if they bother to explain to the third ahead of time how the sub feels about it. Because it is rude to the third to spring this on them. Assuming you haven't been allowed to meet the third and explain this to them yourself that you hate the idea of this and that you find the idea of sex with them to be so unpleasant. The other thing is that by crossing someone's moral boundaries you risk the relationship. Trust will be broken. Personally I think it's important to have this discussion early and to set your boundaries clearly.

unknowndesires -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 6:04:14 AM)
thank you celeste43 you have my feelings on this right on the mark.. i thought i was wrong. feeling this way....thank you again

TxBadMan -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 7:07:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: unknowndesires hello to A/all...as i am new here i have alot of questions that need to be answered but will start with just one... if you knew from the start your sub/slave was straight...would you try to change her or force her to be with another woman? If I wished her to be with another woman, then I would expect her to comply with my wishes. It has nothing to do with changing her. Just because she does what I request does not mean that she suddenly becomes bisexual

ayasha -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 8:13:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TxBadMan If I wished her to be with another woman, then I would expect her to comply with my wishes. It has nothing to do with changing her. Just because she does what I request does not mean that she suddenly becomes bisexual Exactly.

gypsylee -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 9:01:00 AM)
one of my D's general 'rules' is that He would not subject me to something He wouldn't subject Himself to. (no He isn't a switch, it's a 'boundary' thing.) so, i wonder how many straight Doms would like it if they were told to sleep with another man?

TxBadMan -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 9:06:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gypsylee one of my D's general 'rules' is that He would not subject me to something He wouldn't subject Himself to. (no He isn't a switch, it's a 'boundary' thing.) so, i wonder how many straight Doms would like it if they were told to sleep with another man? Since I don't adhere to the same rule, it would not matter. On the other side of the coin though, if I were the submissive/slave, maybe I would have a different view. Since I am not though, if I tell my slave to sleep with another women, she's going to without any questions being asked.

gypsylee -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 9:12:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TxBadMan Since I don't adhere to the same rule, it would not matter. On the other side of the coin though, if I were the submissive/slave, maybe I would have a different view. Since I am not though, if I tell my slave to sleep with another women, she's going to without any questions being asked. fair enough.

LaTigresse -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 9:15:19 AM)
I think again it all comes down to communication. Any sub/slave needs to ask questions to know what to expect. If you tell one that you have boundary (exibit A), I think it is also important to ask them what they think about boundaries in general. Does this particular person consider it a "I will ever tell you to do this" OR "I will push you in your stated boundaries because you will belong to me and it is my right" Every person is going to have a slightly different vision of the Ds relationship, it's important to know this early on. Just my opinion........

TxBadMan -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 9:22:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I think again it all comes down to communication. Any sub/slave needs to ask questions to know what to expect. If you tell one that you have boundary (exibit A), I think it is also important to ask them what they think about boundaries in general. Does this particular person consider it a "I will ever tell you to do this" OR "I will push you in your stated boundaries because you will belong to me and it is my right" Every person is going to have a slightly different vision of the Ds relationship, it's important to know this early on. Just my opinion........ It does Ma'am . Communication BEFORE hand is essential in any relationship. If my girl had told me before our relationship became solid that she was NOT bisexual, chances are that while I would still hold the right to request it of her; I would not force it on her simply because I could.

juliaoceania -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 9:29:55 AM)
This is a soft limit for me and I am not bisexual. I am not disgusted by it either, it does not go against my morals. I have a hard limit about sharing my Daddy with other women though. This was agreed upon before we started a dynamic. People should really think about what is outside of their limits before they engage in a dynamic with someone and it would avoid these situations...

fckmeimirish -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 9:39:58 AM)
Isn't this situation more about the mental aspect of the D/s relationship and less about physical sex and the third person that's involved? Your Dom should, and probably does know that you are not a bisexual. Part of what gets a Dom off is seeing his submissive make a willing sacrifice of this nature to selflessly please Him ... we get off on the power as much as you get off on the lack of it. Along that line of rationale, if you are a good sub/slave, and not a selfish brat who just wants all of their own kinks served, you will be turned on by the mental power exchange that this situation revolves around, you'll do your very best to pleasure the woman and enjoy it yourself ... at the bare minimum do it without apparent disdain because it gets you off to make that sacrifice to please your Dom and show your devotion. Isn't that what this is all about in the first damned place?

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 9:56:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fckmeimirish Along that line of rationale, if you are a good sub/slave, and not a selfish brat who just wants all of their own kinks served, you will be turned on by the mental power exchange that this situation revolves around, you'll do your very best to pleasure the woman and enjoy it yourself Being a slave doesn't mean you will constantly get turned on by obeying or that you are a bad slave because you don't get turned on by doing everyone you're told to do. quote: ... at the bare minimum do it without apparent disdain because it gets you off to make that sacrifice to please your Dom and show your devotion. Isn't that what this is all about in the first damned place? No, submission and slavery is not about sacrifice. That's what martyrs are for. I've nothing wrong with an owner telling their slave to fuck anyone and everyone they want in whatever way they want or with the slave obeying. But suggesting that they get off on it just because they are obeying or that they should sacrifice who they are just to be obedient is unrealistic. Of course, as stated previously, the slave should know that this obedience will be expected of her in that relationship and accepted it as being a fulfilling part of their relationship.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 11:05:15 AM)
Expecting a partner to change for you is almost always a road to disaster. Change is hard and often simply doesn't happen when it's being done for someone else. Change usually only happens for yourself. If your partner is wanting you to change right from the beginning, it's a good time to move on, especially if that change is against your nature. As for the opinion answer: I wouldn't expect someone coming into my household to change their sexual preference. Thus, if I had a gay man in service, I wouldn't expect sexual service from him...although, it HAS been offered. LOL I don't expect sexual service from my het girl, either...although she has said that she would do it as a service. Sex is just easy to get, so why should I bother going against someone's preference? Master Fire

Mavis -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 11:18:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TxBadMan if I tell my slave to sleep with another women, she's going to without any questions being asked. i understand the right reserved to do that, in theory.. but in practice, would You REALLY subject the extra girl to this, assuming she isn't another of Your slaves? How would You go about convincing a 3rd party to join an unwilling partner? Your dynamic already has consent figured out, but to that extra girl... You're asking HER to participate sexually with at least one partner that hasn't consented to HER. (Ok, i also realise in practice, a hooker could be paid to be the 3rd, "convincing" someone to play against consent isn't the only way this can be worked.)

Mavis -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 11:26:46 AM)
Here's a good reversal, i'm bi. naturally, intrinsically, happily so. but Master is one of the what? 4 Males on earth that is actually squicked by girl on girl. He doesn't have rules about my doing so, but would rather not get the scoop on any play i do in that direction. Although He was highly amused when W/we entered a pub and several gals i know were slithery-flirty with me, i think the amusement came from how hot that looked to the other guys! The thing that younger girls see me as an experienced older woman and that's sexy in some circles kinda set Him back a bit. And He was jealous of the attention, to be honest. lol. (edited to add, sorry for the hijack, but it wasn't worth starting a new thread over, but i find the flipside of the Dom + girl/girl thing interesting)

Nikolette -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 11:39:59 AM)
Nope. I absolutely would not, ever, force someone to do something sexual to another person unless they had consented to "forced bi". I believe that it would negatively affect them and their sexuality in the long term and I just wouldn't want to do that. It doesn't matter or not whether I "could" by our agreement of TPE. I DO enjoy testing some limits, hard or otherwise just for the sense of control and excitement-but this is simply one I wouldn't push. I know first hand how manipulating someone who is under your influence to do things sexually that they really really don't want to is unhealthy and damaging. I would also strongly question anyone's ethics who forced me to do something I believe would damage me if I explained it to them fully.

fckmeimirish -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 11:43:59 AM)
Albatross, I see that you're simply pointing out a line that I am walking between enjoying my power and abusing it ... and I agree ... there is certainly a line to be minded, indeed. A good point you made is that the expectation should be in place before the action is requested ... and another good point made above is that the Dom should not expect you to change in any permanent way ... and I wouldn't imagine that it would be my favorite activity to engage in if I know that you don't like it ... I love to see my slave's faces contorted in pleasure ... however ... sometimes its all about me and she needs to do what is expected of her in that situation. I, do, however, disagree a bit about the sacrifice aspect of these relationships. Because I prefer harmony to dischord in my home, punishment is not something that I look forward to in any particular way. That said, I know that you certainly understand that almost all slaves and subs, either conciously or subconciously, test thier Dom's/Master's strength of conviction and self-control on a periodic basis by breaking a rule or omitting a duty, simply because they must feel that strength in order to feel their respective submission. In other words they struggle a bit for power in the relationship, but have no intention of winning, for it is in your thwarting of that struggle that the slave feels the most like a slave. Now, I already said that I don't particularly care for punishment, but it is a duty that I have sworn myself to carry out because I know why she needs it. Am I not making a sacrifice of sorts in this regard? I feel that I am, especially when I must remain externally composed even when my heart is heavy from hearing the sobs of pain, humiliation, or guilt of someone very special to me, and carry out to completion whatever punishment I have expained would be given ... even when my true impulse is to kiss the tears away and call it forgiven. It is this that is the foundation of her respect for me ... so I do it for her ... not me ... and I don't particularly enjoy it ... just like the person we were talking about previously doesn't particularly enjoy homosexual sex ... but she full well knows that it won't kill her ... as long as her Dom takes care of all safety issues. I do enjoy the thought provoking discourse though, Albatross. I like a woman who can make me think carefully (grins and winks). Shawn

unknowndesires -> RE: confused (10/6/2006 11:49:52 AM)
thank you all for the input... it is greatly appreciated...

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