SadistCpl4fslv
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sinergy
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mavis
The house slave in Roman times could easily say "Master, there are rats in the silo eating the grain, your slaves are going hungry and cannot work the fields because they're getting weak, the neighbor is stealing your calves and the tile worker did a mosaic of your wife doing Pharoh. And the boat building business is bad because your boats sink." Can bet me that slave wasn't referred to as a submissive. Nor did he operate under the assumption that "maybe Master likes it that way, it's not for me to warn Him".
A Gladiator slave could insist on having his own place to live, his own servants / house slaves, and could tell his Master to go soak his head if the slave didnt feel like getting out of his harem that day. The Master put up with this because of what the Gladiator brought him on Tournament Day, which is recognition and power and prestige.
There is a perfect example of differences in SLAVE populations, without even trying to compare them to submissive populations.
A gladiator slave had to fight in tournaments.
A house slave had to empty the chamber pot and wash the dishes.
A sex slave had to pleasure his/her master.
These are all slaves.
But they are all different.
I suspect it will be impossible to nail down an accurate definition of what a slave or submissive is without giving it a context, and even then it will be impossible to compare the two because they are different to the people involved.
Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.
Sinergy
Sinergy,
I would be very curious to know your source on the information you have provided concearning Roman Gladiators. Not that I am refuting what you have posted. However, as a student of history and in particular Roman culture, I have done considerable reading and research and have never found anything even remotely close to this in recorded history about the treatment of Gladiators. As a matter of fact I have only seen these kinds of things portrayed in Holywood movies, which have also bent historical facts into fiction such as the "thumbs up" which originally was a sign to cut the throat of the subduede gladiator by the victor, not show mercy.
It is clear from historical fact, that while some gladiators were looked upon as cultural hereos by a contingency of the general public and obtained respect and popularity in the arena, Roman society viewed gladiators as nothing more than slaves and treated them with ambivolance. They were no doubt well cared for physically and medically as they were expensive to replace, however gladiators lived a harsh life by law with only certain rights if any that were allowed by their owners. Perhaps what you have posted did on occasion happen, but it certainly does not appear to be the norm. According to Petronius, gladiators had to swear an oath to "indure branding, chains, flogging, and death by the sword, to follow their Masters's orders without question, and to pay for their food and drink with their blood." It is also a fact that, for several practical and situational reasons, many citizens were recruited into the service as a gladiator and upon their recruitment they took the same oath, lost their "liberatus" and became a slave, and became the property of the "lanista", or gladitorial manager.
There is evidence as well that some of the more succesful and popular gladiators were able to win or puchase their freedom, or earn their freedom after 3 years service "ad ludum". But this is also the exception as most gladiators who were not originally Roman citizen recruits were criminals, prisoners, or slaves and were expected to die within a year.
You might be interested in reading the book "The Gladiator: The Secret Life of Romes Warior Slaves", as well as the written works of Petronius, and Tacitus. And I had also planned to include several websites on the subject, however firefox won't let me C&P so if you are interested I will email them to you.
Again, I would be most interested in your source as it would be quite a contraste to all of the research I have done previously.
Regards,
RSC
< Message edited by SadistCpl4fslv -- 10/17/2006 10:44:06 PM >
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RE: Slave vs. submissive - 
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