ShiftedJewel
Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
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Jewel, it's interesting to note that the process of distinguishing submissive from slave requires (admittedly interesting) personal stories, rather than a straight forward rendition of what those differences are. I think that's testimony to the fact that they defy definition (though the effort is both amusing and enjoyable).
Awww, and I thought I led a fairly boring life.... thank you. And I do see exactly where you are coming from, it's like describing a color to a blind person.... it seems so clear to the one looking at the color but the words escape. It is amusing... isn't it?
I'm a seamstress. I've been sewing now for almost 45 years (yes, I started when I was four on a tredle sewing machine) For the most part if it is made of fabric I can make it but I'll be damned if I could teach someone else how to do the same thing. It works for me, that's all I can say.
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What sort of power exchange relationship does that describe? Certainly not one that I'm familiar with, though anything is possible if the two (or more) parties in the relationship agree to it. Still, I cannot imagine how such an arrangement can rise to the level of a power exchange relationship, if no power is exchanged (ie: if the Dominant is not in control).
I knew you were gonna nail me on that one. From what I have seen and experienced most submissives tend to keep possession of their personal things such as bank accounts, retirement accounts and that sort of thing. I know there are quite a few that turn it over to their owner and that's a choice they make. But for the most part it seems to be almost a given that when a slave commits to an owner they turn over everything and retain no control over it. Sometimes it's a good thing but in modern times where so many people are involved that don't act responsibly more times then not it's not a good decision. But that doesn't keep it from happening nor does it keep the slave from wanting to turn over every aspect of their lives to the owner. As far as a TPE is concerned the owner of a submissive may indeed have the authority to dictate how and when the submissive spends or invests their money but in the end, it is their money and they retain the power to do with it as they please because in reality it is in their name, their account and so on. I've talked to slaves that believe they need to put their accounts in the name of the owner and retain no power to access said accounts. Now keep in mind I'm not saying it's a smart move and I'm not saying it happens all the time... it's the mindset I keep mentioning... they have the desire/need to do that where submissives do not. Ok, in a round about way I'm saying that in that respect the submissives that hold on to that particular power have a more realistic view.
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That's all fine and good when you really ARE acountable, as in she followed your instructions. But let's say she just did a poor job of it, the polka dots were sloppy and the orange paint got all over the baseboards and molding. Are you still accountable? Or is she responsible for her own handiwork? If a slave is unaccountable for their actions, then you bear the burden of all that they do. My experience with human nature is that those who aren't accountable generally don't put forth their best effort, so be prepared to live with "good enough to get by".
Again, it's that mindset thing that kicks in. If you hire someone to do the same job and let them know that no matter what the outcome you will accept accountability for it then yes, I agree that human nature kicks in and they don't do the best work and will only do what is necessary to get by. But when you are talking about a sub or slave then there is the mindset that they "need" to do the very best job they can simply because it is their nature.
The difference lies in way it is done.... ok, I really tried to avoid my little anecdotes but that's all but impossible for me... lol As an example... the other day Scooter took twicehappy into the laundry room and pointed at a hole in the floor (we're in the middle of a major remodel, not living in a dump) that was put there in order to run new phone line and told her to repair it. She did. She didn't do anything to repair the place in the wall on the inside or out... the reasoning? She figured first... if he had wanted those repaired as well he would have said so and second... maybe he wanted them done in a different way. When he got home and saw that the other holes were not fixed he immediately understood it was his fault... he didn't communicate clearly what he wanted done.
Ok, same scenerio with a submissive. There is a hole in the floor that needs to be fixed as well as the one on the wall inside the house and one outside the house. Most likely they ALL need to be repaired and most likely the owner does want that so they go ahead and do it out of the anticipation that it will be pleasing to the owner. The owner comes home and sees that everything is repaired and one of two things will happen. Either he/she will be pleased that the submissive did all the repairs even thought they hadn't communicated that exact need or they will have had other plans on how to repair the holes they didn't mention... either way the accountability will rest on the submissive.
Before long you'll know my life story huh? lmao
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I'm not sure I agree with this analogy. None of my submissives would have disobeyed my instructions for an orange wall with purple polka dots because they thought I wouldn't end up liking it that way. They would not deign to defy my instructions by trying to infer my "tastes" for fashion (my fashion tastes are deplorable). In fact, several of them would relish the task knowing full well that I would dislike the result, and quietly relish the "I told you so" running through their head. *LMAO*
Now if we were headed to the gym and I instructed her to turn right and she knew the gym was to the left, she might "disobey" my instruction in order to accomplish my objective... arriving at the gym. But that's not a matter of her inferring my taste, but rather adhering to my stated desire to arrive at the gym. I would be miffed if she had knowingly turned right and allowed my gaffe to take us out of our way (despite rumors to the contrary, I have not yet achieved perfection and do, on rare ocassion, make mistakes).
Your analogy about the gym is really no different. Yes, twicehappy would turn right even knowing that the gym was in the opposite direction. Why? Because we told her to. No second guessing us, for all she knows there is some place else we want to stop before going to the gym. After she found out that we had no plans to stop some place first, knowing her as we do, she would have said that she knew we were going in the wrong direction if the intent was to do directly to the gym but was doing as she was told to do. We're accountable since we gave her faulty directions. No point in being miffed at her about it. Actually, we've done that... lol Go figure.
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Would she never answer the phone, even if you were laying on the floor unconscious and it was the rescue squad calling for directions to your home?
For us it is a feasible thing to do should we want to... the fire department is a block and a half from our house (but then again, in this town, everything is a block and a half from our house) and to get technical here, in todays modern society (not that we have that here mind you) and 911 being what it is... I can't see them calling for directions. As you said, it depends on the who, what, and where of any relationship and for us and our locale that would be a very feasible thing since it would be faster to just run down the street and have them follow her home then it would be to actually answer the phone and give directions.
That being said, I can't say how that would affect one living in a large metropolis since I don't and you couldn't pay me enough to. But it was an example... granted a poor one.
I also wanted to thank you for posting that link, it was a great article, I saved it to my favorites. Unfortunately I have gone through a few puters since I last had the chance to converse with you and no longer have the link to your site (do you still have it?).
And now that people are tired of reading...
My thoughts on the difference between dominant and master or mistress? As Scooter says, dominant is what you are, master/mistress is a position you hold.
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We can "hope" that the world does not end... and, I would be willing to bet that most submissives "hope" that their relationships do not end - just like a "slave" would "hope" that their relationships do not end...
Absolutely, even if it only ends in death it does eventually end. No one, no matter how committed they are can make a statement and hold true to that statement come hell or high water day in and day out. It is a conscious effort to maintain any relationship, work, home, social... none of it comes naturally and flows perfectly.
Jewel
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Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.
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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 
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I've read through the entire thread now, and I think I've come up with a few comments to add. 
From all that's been said in this thread, I haven't the foggiest whether I would count as a submissive or a slave. I could be either. 
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