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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 4:37:02 AM   
twicehappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: spankmepink11

It reminds me of my children saying "all my friends are doing it"  and of course the age old parental reply being, "if all your friends were jumping off a cliff would you also?"  I'm sorry, i just cannot accept the concept that labeling oneself "slave" negates common sense and personal, moral, responsiblity/accountability.


 Let me try to explain it a little better.
 
To begin it is not like you children performing any action because their friends were, that is different subject entirely.
 
And hopefully most slaves would use common sense and just say no to doing anything illegal, but the fact is that in some very intense M/s relationships it is very possible for the owner to convince them to do anything.
 
One does not become a slave by labeling oneself a slave, one might be collared as a slave at the start but the real slave mindset comes a little further on as during the course of the relationship you learn to trust your owner/s and your own will dissolves or is taken from you.
 
You read Jewel's story about the hole in the laundry room floor, well that just happened on Monday.
 
Scooter took me into the laundry room and pointed at the hole in the floor which went all the way outside where the phone lines had been previously brought in; there was also an entire section of inside wall that had been removed and the insulation taken out as well. He simply pointed at the floor and said see that hole, it is a problem I want you to fix it.
 
When I owned my own home I would have looked at the entire mess, cut flooring that matched exactly, repaired the wall etc.
 
When I was first collared I would have hit him with 20 questions like " Is there flooring that matches? What about the hole outside?  Do you have bricks or cement to close that off? We should insulate that wall do you want me to do that to?"
 
Time has however passed and I know not to question him, I trust that what he tells me to do is what he wants me to do. So when he said "fix that hole in the floor" I did. I found wood, cut it to fit, filled the hole in the floor only with insulation and fixed the hole in the floor.
 
When he came home I was really happy, "look Master, I remembered to fix the hole in the floor".
 
He then explained there was flooring that matched and the rest of what he wanted done. Was he mad at me? No.
 
Was I upset because I did not do what he wanted but did not explain? No
 
Why? Because I trusted that I did exactly what he told me to do, I am not labeling myself a slave, I am a slave. Master said do, I did. In the context of our relationship I do not stop and question anything anymore; does this make me wrong or irresponsible? No, it makes me his slave. But it does make me not accountable when i do exactly what he told me to do.
 
Whose fault is it the repairs were not done the way he intended or the way on my own I would have thought they should be done? Scooter's, totally. He admitted as much immediately, he should have been more specific.
 
 

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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 5:01:57 AM   
LordODiscipline


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: calipet

the difference between a sub and a slave is very simple....one can be submisssive without a partner, that is simply what one is....but a slave by definition must have a master and be owned


So all those people who identify as slaves and are Masterless are "shit out of luck" in your dictionary?

Would seem a bit callous of me to be so dismissive of other people's reality, but that is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy


And, yet you are dismissive of their reality...
 
THAT is engaging in conflict rather than finding a commonality.
 
~J

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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 10:04:21 AM   
Lordandmaster


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What's your problem?  I said I don't think Taoism has anything to do with this.  That's hardly "denigrating your belief system."  I'd have the same response if someone tried to give me a half-baked Buddhist or Islamic explanation of why roses are not a subset of flowers.

Persecution complex there, Sinergy?  REAL Taoists don't whine like little martyrs when other people don't accept their beliefs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

And while the condescending comments about Taoism and finding a Taoist submissive were cute, I guess, in a juvenile sort of way, I personally dont feel it particularly mature to denigrate other people's belief systems or ways they define their consciousness.


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 10/14/2006 10:05:02 AM >

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 1:12:20 PM   
spankmepink11


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

This is how it has worked for me as well.  But i have a question for you.  After you have agreed to the initial limits, have you found others that have come up during the course of the relationship?  If so, how did you handle that?  If not, how would you handle that?
 

 


Hi adaddysgirl,
That very thing has come up in past relationships.  I simply handled it by doing what was requested of me. I may be strange, but sometimes the fact that a certain activity seems unpleasant to me adds some sort of bizarre attraction. That being said, I'm also very thorough in my expression of limits at the onset of the relationship, i expect and encourage my Partner to do the same.  One partner expressed certain desires that early into my self exploration was considered a hard limit, i took the time to research the subject and after finding that it held no serious health risks decided it was not a hard limit at all. It might not be something i longed to do....but again, the idea of doing something i may find unpleasant as a sign of devotion or obedience turns me on...(win win situation). 
   My "negotiation processs" usually takes place over an extended time period which gives us both ample time to explore and understand one anothers desires and limits.

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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 1:40:06 PM   
spankmepink11


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Dear twice,
to quote you...
"One does not become a slave by labeling oneself a slave, one might be collared as a slave at the start but the real slave mindset comes a little further on as during the course of the relationship you learn to trust your owner/s and your own will dissolves or is taken from you. "

I've strived for and experienced that mindset  in my own relationships, yet i still label myself  a submissive, and will continue to do so until it comes to pass that a Partner chooses to label me otherwise.
  As for the hole in the floor example, i believe i would have asked if  He would like me to fix the other problems as well. I don't think that makes either of us right or wrong, just different.
Would He have been angered  by me asking that? 
Just for the sake of debate, (honestly not trying to be obtuse) if a slave asked their Master if they would also like the other problems fixed as well, does that  type of behaviour negate their identification as "slave"?  I truly do understand that there can be differences in a slave verses submissive mindset, but i also maintain that some who identify as submissive are no different  in mindset than those of slave. 
much love and respect...
c

(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 1:46:58 PM   
slavejali


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A slave in a bdsm sense is someone who *submits* (i.e. a submissive).

A submissive in a bdsm sense is someone who has a problem with the word "slave".




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"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 1:47:46 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

A slave in a bdsm sense is someone who *submits* (i.e. a submissive).

A submissive in a bdsm sense is someone who has a problem with the word "slave".





I think I like this Jali! Nice to see you on the board too

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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 1:50:58 PM   
KatyLied


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quote:

submissive in a bdsm sense is someone who has a problem with the word "slave".


Yep, that sort of resembles me.  I have issues with the word "slave" and would never want to be considered one.  I freely admit I have a problem with it.  
And Jali, it's good to see you back.


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(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 1:51:33 PM   
slavejali


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 It's nice to be here

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 1:53:08 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Yep, that sort of resembles me.  I have issues with the word "slave" and would never want to be considered one.  I freely admit I have a problem with it


"and the little kangaroo in her pouch said ...'me too'" .. I never pass up the opportunity to quote Dr Suess or talk Fuddian

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 1:55:41 PM   
Mavis


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spankmepink..  same here.  There was a thread here long ago about this, and a lot of us remembered really BAD reactions to things that sound just fine now.  Fireplay just horrified me, until i found out it wasn't about torching someone and having them run screaming thru the dungeon. lol.   Researching things usually puts them in a perspective we can work with. 


(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 1:57:24 PM   
KnightofMists


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I bought a new car... I pushed every where.....

Then one day some asked why I pushed it..  Well because it didn't move on it's own I stated.

The person then showed me that if I turned this key... and did  a few other things.. well then it would move on it's own and I could direct where I wanted it to go as well.

So who's fault was it that I pushed it every where... Mine... because I didn't use all it have to offer.

I took this lesson and applied it to all my possessions.  Think about what it has to offer and use it all that makes my life easier.  With my slaves.. I have found their reasoning power and ability to ask questions rather useful.

But... hey if you don't want to use all that they have to offer.. then you can just keep pushing the car.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to spankmepink11)
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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 2:02:31 PM   
slavejali


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I liked the KNightofMists, it could be a whole topic in itself. People can have "possessions" but to get the most out of those possessions depends on the owners skill level in lots of ways.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 5:26:11 PM   
adaddysgirl


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The ignorance of some people still ceases to amaze me.  Wonder what they are trying to prove? 
 
DG

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 5:30:00 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

The ignorance of some people still ceases to amaze me.  Wonder what they are trying to prove? 
 
DG


Im wondering why you care so deeply... but that is ok, I will send you light in my thoughts...

Geesh does someone have control issues?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 5:51:52 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: calipet

the difference between a sub and a slave is very simple....one can be submisssive without a partner, that is simply what one is....but a slave by definition must have a master and be owned


So all those people who identify as slaves and are Masterless are "shit out of luck" in your dictionary?

Would seem a bit callous of me to be so dismissive of other people's reality, but that is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy


And, yet you are dismissive of their reality...
 
THAT is engaging in conflict rather than finding a commonality.
 
~J


It is like a Chinese puzzle box.

On the other hand, I simply stated my own feelings on the matter, as opposed to demanding that anybody else agree with what I think.

I suspect Taoists have feelings.  I believe this since how a person feels is not something they have control over.  What they have control over is what they do with those feelings.

Just me, could be wrong, but hope that clarifies my thoughts, LoD.

Sinergy

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(in reply to LordODiscipline)
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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 5:51:58 PM   
adaddysgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


Im wondering why you care so deeply... but that is ok, I will send you light in my thoughts...

Geesh does someone have control issues?


Julia,
 
You are truly the most obscene person i have seen on ANY thread since i have been posting here.  You use passive aggression, covert and snide little remarks (such as quoted here) and innuendo like i have never seen.  And then when someone calls you on it, you give some lame BS....trying to make it look like it is the other person who has issues...not you.
 
You're an Arien?  So am i....with a few more years experience.  Choose your battles wisely.  i've already been where you are now.
 
DG

_____________________________

I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence.

Frederick Douglas

"I am in a relationship which employs punishment because it fulfills me to do

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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 5:53:14 PM   
juliaoceania


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Um ok.. that is your opinion and you are welcome to it...

I wish you well

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 6:03:31 PM   
adaddysgirl


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From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Um ok.. that is your opinion and you are welcome to it...

I wish you well


Why thank you Julia...i am glad that you wish me well 

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RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submiss... - 10/14/2006 9:39:04 PM   
Iskander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


Im wondering why you care so deeply... but that is ok, I will send you light in my thoughts...

Geesh does someone have control issues?


Julia,
 
You are truly the most obscene person i have seen on ANY thread since i have been posting here.  You use passive aggression, covert and snide little remarks (such as quoted here) and innuendo like i have never seen.  And then when someone calls you on it, you give some lame BS....trying to make it look like it is the other person who has issues...not you.
 
You're an Arien?  So am i....with a few more years experience.  Choose your battles wisely.  i've already been where you are now.
 
DG


*Starts filling the wading pool with lime jelly/jello*
*puts up posters and starts selling tickets*

Iskander...



(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 140
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