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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/11/2006 10:19:12 PM   
Kedicat


Posts: 251
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline 		The vast majority of citizens of a country are not military. The vast majority work and vote and pay taxes to support the military.
They have the right to their opinions and actions too.
How about the same sort of list for doctors, nurses, firemen, garbagemen, police, etc etc....
Citizens are the country. Citizens voting keep it free, working, make it work.
And the military do their job as well, when they are called to. Like everyone else.

Every soldier was just an average joe or jane...

And a flag is just a symbol. What it stands for at any moment might not always make you proud.


< Message edited by Kedicat -- 10/11/2006 10:20:00 PM >

(in reply to MasterRenegade77)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/11/2006 10:28:24 PM   
RazorJAK


Posts: 821
Joined: 8/5/2006
From: Manistee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: RazorJAK

It's words like these that made me start carrying around a copy of my DD214 while I was protesting.

Because it was a damned sure thing the loudest jackass repugnican who would get in my face calling me a "traitor" NEVER served.

Amazing how fast they shut up when I would pull out my veteran's healthcard with the words "Service Connected" and make them read the area around my awards and decorations.

I've got more to say about this.  But I am going to let my blood cool down a bit before I do so.



RazorJAK:
Hands Razor a .45 w/one in the pipe cocked and locked and ready to rock....pats him on the shoulder and says "remember ol buddy gun control means using both hands ...now  ...breath....relax....aim....squeezzzzzzzz

thompson


*eyes the tiny popgun thompson is offering and chuckles*

No thanks,  I prefer this. 

* opens case and pulls out a .475 Wildey Magnum (pin gun config) *

One day I'll actually go completely nuts and get the 18" barrel.




< Message edited by RazorJAK -- 10/11/2006 10:29:25 PM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/11/2006 11:30:33 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		My son decided on his own volition not to salute the flag in protest over the war in Iraq. I told him I would support this decision but that he had better be prepared to deal with repercussions of his decision... ie catching flack from people like those in the OP that would want to harass him, possibly beat him. I recommended to him to keep soluting it. He made his own stand, I stood behind him, and yes he was harassed by a particular teacher. He threatened my son, I wrote a letter informing him if he gave my son grief I would sue. I did not want to do this.

This teacher had tenure, he tried to bust my son down for being even a fraction of a minute late, so my son was always early... except once he arrived right as the bell rang. He was put on detention for his one and only tardy. I called the school and was told that they wished they could fire him for his behavior, but they couldn't, one school official told me onthe down lo that the only way to get rid of him was if they faced a law suit for his violation of a student's civil rights. It is a nonissue now because my son is on independent studies, and this occurred soon after this incident.

I consider my son a fine citizen. I have never known him to smoke a cigarette, or take a drink. He has always been helpful to animals, old people, and small children. He has helped neighbors in need. That is just the sort of person he is. He does not curse or play music too loud, or disturb people... he just is a good person. And yet because of his moral stand against an unjust war some neanderthal would advocate assaulting him.

At first this OP did not trouble me much, and I joked it off, but the more I began thinking about it, the more I realized there are people who would kick my son's ass for something as stupid as saluting a freakin piece of cloth. And they call themselves Americans... it really disgusts me


< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/11/2006 11:31:44 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MasterRenegade77)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/11/2006 11:42:44 PM   
dombill32


Posts: 43
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline 		Rules for the Non-Military telling other Non-Military how to interact with Military

1.  They are no longer allowed to rent, borrow, or buy Starship Troopers

< Message edited by dombill32 -- 10/11/2006 11:43:21 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/11/2006 11:44:03 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		OK, but like we don't want any ordinary corporal to rent, own, or buy Starship Troopers either.  I think you definitely need to demonstrate some sort of qualification, like a Starship Trooper Operations degree, in order to enjoy that privilege.

(in reply to dombill32)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 3:37:50 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Perhaps someone can tell me which war since the one in 1812 that was actually fought to protect America and our constitution not to make the rich richer?

thompson


Thompson, it said on the news last night that the pentagon is planning on keeping Troops in Iraq until 2010 now!
That war is being fought for Exon/Mobil.
And we've had Troops in S. Korea for 53 years now.
I don't have any "interests" in S. Korea.
What "interests" does the U.S. have in S. Korea?
We guard their border but we don't guard our own border with Mexico?

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 3:38:06 AM   
evyy


Posts: 25
Joined: 8/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

My son decided on his own volition not to salute the flag in protest over the war in Iraq. I told him I would support this decision but that he had better be prepared to deal with repercussions of his decision... ie catching flack from people like those in the OP that would want to harass him, possibly beat him. I recommended to him to keep soluting it. He made his own stand, I stood behind him, and yes he was harassed by a particular teacher. He threatened my son, I wrote a letter informing him if he gave my son grief I would sue. I did not want to do this.

This teacher had tenure, he tried to bust my son down for being even a fraction of a minute late, so my son was always early... except once he arrived right as the bell rang. He was put on detention for his one and only tardy. I called the school and was told that they wished they could fire him for his behavior, but they couldn't, one school official told me onthe down lo that the only way to get rid of him was if they faced a law suit for his violation of a student's civil rights. It is a nonissue now because my son is on independent studies, and this occurred soon after this incident.

I consider my son a fine citizen. I have never known him to smoke a cigarette, or take a drink. He has always been helpful to animals, old people, and small children. He has helped neighbors in need. That is just the sort of person he is. He does not curse or play music too loud, or disturb people... he just is a good person. And yet because of his moral stand against an unjust war some neanderthal would advocate assaulting him.

At first this OP did not trouble me much, and I joked it off, but the more I began thinking about it, the more I realized there are people who would kick my son's ass for something as stupid as saluting a freakin piece of cloth. And they call themselves Americans... it really disgusts me


I was in America a few years ago and went to school with a friend, and i have to say that the whole pledge of allegiance thing was completely outside my comfort zone, it was something that i could never conceive being made to do, personally i'm proud to come from a country where there is no demand or expectance of patriotism, because although i love my country, i don't appreciate much of what it stand for, its policies and what it does, and if i did then enviably there would be someone who had a different opinion to me, and so would not. instead of announcing my patriotism i would rather acknowledge my countries problems and work to improve it.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 6:01:26 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RazorJAK

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: RazorJAK

It's words like these that made me start carrying around a copy of my DD214 while I was protesting.

Because it was a damned sure thing the loudest jackass repugnican who would get in my face calling me a "traitor" NEVER served.

Amazing how fast they shut up when I would pull out my veteran's healthcard with the words "Service Connected" and make them read the area around my awards and decorations.

I've got more to say about this.  But I am going to let my blood cool down a bit before I do so.



RazorJAK:
Hands Razor a .45 w/one in the pipe cocked and locked and ready to rock....pats him on the shoulder and says "remember ol buddy gun control means using both hands ...now  ...breath....relax....aim....squeezzzzzzzz

thompson


*eyes the tiny popgun thompson is offering and chuckles*

No thanks,  I prefer this. 

* opens case and pulls out a .475 Wildey Magnum (pin gun config) *

One day I'll actually go completely nuts and get the 18" barrel.





RazorJAK:
Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess.
thompson

(in reply to RazorJAK)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 6:08:36 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Perhaps someone can tell me which war since the one in 1812 that was actually fought to protect America and our constitution not to make the rich richer?

thompson


Thompson, it said on the news last night that the pentagon is planning on keeping Troops in Iraq until 2010 now!
That war is being fought for Exon/Mobil.
And we've had Troops in S. Korea for 53 years now.
I don't have any "interests" in S. Korea.
What "interests" does the U.S. have in S. Korea?
We guard their border but we don't guard our own border with Mexico?


Popeye:
If one were to look closely at the line that seperates north and south Korea one might notice a small pimple that protrudes into the north above the 38th parallel.  It is in this tiny salient that the major portion of the tungsten that we use is mined.

thompson

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 7:04:06 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Pointing out that which you already know Lam:

Hitler was a corporal.

LOLOLOL,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 7:16:04 AM   
RazorJAK


Posts: 821
Joined: 8/5/2006
From: Manistee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Pointing out that which you already know Lam:

Hitler was a corporal.

LOLOLOL,
Ron


And an artist and a vegetarian ... :-)


(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 7:17:43 AM   
RazorJAK


Posts: 821
Joined: 8/5/2006
From: Manistee
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: RazorJAK

*eyes the tiny popgun thompson is offering and chuckles*

No thanks,  I prefer this. 

* opens case and pulls out a .475 Wildey Magnum (pin gun config) *

One day I'll actually go completely nuts and get the 18" barrel.





RazorJAK:
Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess.
thompson


My mother would yell at you and tell you to not encourage me.  She's still unnerved that my "collection" is worth more than her park avenue.


< Message edited by RazorJAK -- 10/12/2006 7:18:21 AM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 9:12:50 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RazorJAK

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: RazorJAK

*eyes the tiny popgun thompson is offering and chuckles*

No thanks,  I prefer this. 

* opens case and pulls out a .475 Wildey Magnum (pin gun config) *

One day I'll actually go completely nuts and get the 18" barrel.





RazorJAK:
Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess.
thompson


My mother would yell at you and tell you to not encourage me.  She's still unnerved that my "collection" is worth more than her park avenue.



RazorJAK:
My guess is that you might be the only person here who knows my last name.
thompson

(in reply to RazorJAK)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 3:09:10 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

    Ass kickings aren't always the way to go.  I'm much more likely to just dump a soda down the back of the punk who leaves his hat on during the anthem.  oops


WyrdRich:
Should you accidently drop your soda on me (while I was sitting the national anthem as a form of constitutionally protected protest)I would buy you another one....and a straw to drink it with.
thompson


     You could certainly give it a shot, Thom, but you'd have to stand up first.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 3:12:32 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Are you two still at it?  Christ, whyncha Orbitz a local motel or something.

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 3:31:17 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Are you two still at it?  Christ, whyncha Orbitz a local motel or something.



       Must be these crazy hours I'm working, LAM.  Something about a 2am alarm clock makes it really hard to find my happy place.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 3:55:16 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I am a military retiree.   I don't agree with the rules.  I don't think we should kick their asses.   I am disappointed when I see these things.   I am upset by them.   I hate them.   But I would die defending their right to do them.

I have been called a babykiller.   I have been shot at in my home in Oakland because I wore the uniform.  I have been thrown out of places of business because of my haircut and the way I walk.  And only once did I retaliate (when they beat up one of my soldiers for being military)   I won't tell you what I did but my troops felt a whole lot better about it.

I cry at the National Anthem.   I cry at taps.  I cry when Lee Greenwood sings "God Bless the USA"  (btw   his niece - a military retiree and friend - just died)   I cry at patriotic celebrations.   I cry when the flag passes.   I get really pissed when it is degraded.

I believe in the objectives of our republic.   I don't always agree with those appointed - by the people - over me.   But I will follow all lawful orders.   I would sacrafice my children (4), grandchildren (11) and great grand children (10) supporting those objectives because they serve the people of our country.

Like Viet Nam, the congress gave the President the authority to go fight battles whereever in the world in the name of our repbulic.   The congress was elected by the people, thus through extension, the people granted the President the power.  The role of the soldier is then to support the public will.   He doesn't have to agree.   He doesn't have to like it.   But he has to follow it.  That is his job.

If the people don't like it, they have a constitutional obligation to change it.   The best way to do that, I believe, is to run for political office.  Protest and shows of dissatisfaction are basically meaningless and are selfserving.  Running for political office, is meaningful and productive - win or lose - because you did someting proactive.

SFC/USA
Retired

(in reply to WyrdRich)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 3:57:49 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline 		      Please don't take this as an attack, Julia, but I have to ask.

      Does your son appreciate that what he did/is doing could easily get him, and you for that matter, jailed or even executed for treason in many other countries?  That it could be held against him for life in jobs, housing, government services?  Have you had him watch the video when people stood up like that in Tianamen Square? 

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 4:04:16 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

If the people don't like it, they have a constitutional obligation to change it.   The best way to do that, I believe, is to run for political office.  Protest and shows of dissatisfaction are basically meaningless and are selfserving.  Running for political office, is meaningful and productive - win or lose - because you did someting proactive.


Scratches head and wonders how I was ever served by protesting anything. I did manage to comfort other women with children in Iraq and snap pictures of children whose fathers were in Iraq, and yes, that in its own way was comforting. It was also comforting to talk to veterans of wars that marches against the war in Iraq too, to know I was not alone in my distaste for this conflict... I am just wondering though, how self serving is it to take a stand for what one believes in? If my stand against war is self serving, then anyone who gets emotional over a flag is self serving too

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 4:12:34 PM   
JerseyKrissi72


Posts: 10238
Joined: 8/21/2006
From: Reed City, Michigan
Status: offline 		The flag, national anthem, etc mean little/ nothing to me so I don't stand...I don't go burning flags now...nor do I fly one....we all are entitled to our beliefs...

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 60
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