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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 4:13:32 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

    Please don't take this as an attack, Julia, but I have to ask.

    Does your son appreciate that what he did/is doing could easily get him, and you for that matter, jailed or even executed for treason in many other countries?  That it could be held against him for life in jobs, housing, government services?  Have you had him watch the video when people stood up like that in Tianamen Square? 


He appreciates that this could happen to him in this country if people do not make stands of morality. It is easier to go with the flock than to make a stand.. unless you have made one it is hard to understand that... most never make one, I am very proud of my son, he made one already and he is not even an adult. He faced some persecution for it, some ridicule... did you ever make a stand like that?

My son's school does very orwellian thought police types of things.. it is part of the reason I pulled him out.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/12/2006 4:14:55 PM >


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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 4:23:14 PM   
WyrdRich


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     Like I said, not an attack.  I was just wondering and now I'm pretty sure about the answer.

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 4:28:00 PM   
JerseyKrissi72


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This country does its share of evil doing....don't think for one minute we don't....my step father was in Vietnam and knew of men who would rape women and children over there.....I hate when people talk about how this is the best country ...is it really??  We have starving people in one of the most rich countries, gangs, murders, child molestation.....real perfect

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 4:36:27 PM   
juliaoceania


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My son is educated. He knows about WWI and WWII, he knows about the cold war, and he knows about Russia and Siberian Camps, he knows about Tiananmen square, his marks in history are among his best. In fact he was aware of what was going on in Iraq as far as WMD before Bush or his supporters knew. He gets the same media I do...


He knows that I will not allow him to sign anything in protest, or to go to protests until he is an adult other than small local ones that have permits. He is not allowed because I do not want anything to happen to him, although he wanted to go. He is not allowed to sign anything because I do not want him to endanger his future in politics, which has been the only thing he ever thought seriously about going into. The actions that we take when we are young affect what happens to us later , and those who do not realize this must have missed the Hoover Era and the McCarthy Era too.


Like I said, I am extremely proud of him, he even gives his time to charity.. very articulate and intelligent person.

_____________________________

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 4:40:30 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRenegade77

1. The next time you see an adult talking (or wearing a hat) during the playing of the National Anthem---kick their ass.

I talk and wear a hat whilst the national anthem plays - hell id have sex thru it if it wasnt for public decency. Its a bit of music ffs.

2. When you witness, firsthand, someone burning the American Flag in protest---kick their ass.

Nah id just ask them to clean the mess left after.

3. Regardless of the rank they held while they served, pay the highest amount of respect to all veterans.  If you see anyone doing otherwise, quietly pull them aside and explain how these veterans fought for the very freedom they bask in every second.  Enlighten them on the many sacrifices these veterans made to make this Nation great.  Then hold
them down while a disabled veteran kicks their ass.

Possibly but there again respect where respect is due !!

4. (GUYS) If you were never in the military, DO NOT pretend that you were.  Wearing battle dress uniforms (BDUs) or Jungle Fatigues, telling others that you used to be "Special Forces," and collecting GI Joe memorabilia, might have been okay when you were seven years old.  Now, it will only make you look stupid and get your ass kicked.

I quite like the idea of that scenario lol.

5. Next time you come across an Air Force member, do not ask them, "Do you fly a jet?"  Not everyone in the Air Force is a pilot.  Such ignorance deserves an ass-kicking (children are exempt).

What if they do fly a jet - reasonable question then dont ya think?


7. Next time Old Glory (the US flag) prances by during a parade, get on your damn feet and pay homage to her by placing your hand over your heart.  Quietly thank the military member or veteran lucky enough to be carrying her---of course, failure to do either of those could earn you a severe ass-kicking.
Nah just not happening - hand on heart and standing - its a piece of cloth ffs.

8. Don't try to discuss politics with a military member or a veteran.  We are Americans, and we all bleed the same, regardless of our party affiliation.  The President (for those who didn't know) is our CinC regardless of political party.  We have no inside track on what happens inside those big important buildings where all those representatives meet  All we know is that when those civilian representatives screw up the situation, they call upon the military to go straighten it out.  If you keep asking us the same stupid questions repeatedly, you will get your ass kicked!
I'll discuss politics with whom i choose.


I will add one more:

If you ever see anyone either standing for or singing the national anthem in Spanish - KICK THEIR ASS!
Does that include the national anthem of spain cos funnily enough its in spanish. America is not the only country with a national anthem you know.
 
And last but no way least - shame on you for trying to pass yourself off as a vet. Does that mean you need your ass kicking?



 



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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 4:46:15 PM   
WyrdRich


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JerseyKrissi72

This country does its share of evil doing....don't think for one minute we don't....my step father was in Vietnam and knew of men who would rape women and children over there.....I hate when people talk about how this is the best country ...is it really??  We have starving people in one of the most rich countries, gangs, murders, child molestation.....real perfect




     I wouldn't argue for a second that we're anywhere near perfect Krissi, but as far as providing the best for the most, having a system to seek redress of those injustices and incredible freedom to do it in, we are the best game in town. 

     The biggest health problem among poverty stricken Americans is obesity.  Think about that a little bit.

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 4:52:02 PM   
JerseyKrissi72


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I don't have to think about that at all Sir because if you can give birth to four 8 pound + sons in five years (2 children of which are only 11 months apart), have hypothyroidism and type 2 diabetes along with a condition that causes immense pain in your heals and STILL be physically fit...give me a call.....I am happy with who I am and so is my Dom..and that is all that matters.......ignorance and racism is the biggest problem we face in the U.S.. how about you think about that son?

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 5:38:31 PM   
CrazyC


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Ok can we all take a breathe.....again breathe. You guys this is a joke. Nothing more or less. The person never ment to really has someone going around and kicking other's asses. I eat and breathe Vets everyday. First i am a vet (USAF), my father is one, and my sister. And i just had two sisters join the guard. To top it off, i work with vets on a daily bases and they all have either a physical of mental disability because of the service they gave to this country. So commentary for these statements....

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRenegade77

Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran)

1. The next time you see an adult talking (or wearing a hat) during the playing of the National Anthem---kick their ass.

-talk but you miss a great song that was conducted at the end of a war that gave america the right to burn flags and speak our minds. 

2. When you witness, firsthand, someone burning the American Flag in protest---kick their ass.

-yes it's cloth...but for what that cloth represents, there are generations that died for what it represents. (even if present wars aren't for the same thing, there were wars that did.)


4. (GUYS) If you were never in the military, DO NOT pretend that you were.  Wearing battle dress uniforms (BDUs) or Jungle Fatigues, telling others that you used to be "Special Forces," and collecting GI Joe memorabilia, might have been okay when you were seven years old.  Now, it will only make you look stupid and get your ass kicked.

- Do you know how silly someone looks when doing this...LMAO...it always makes me think their education level is grade school.

5. Next time you come across an Air Force member, do not ask them, "Do you fly a jet?"  Not everyone in the Air Force is a pilot.  Such ignorance deserves an ass-kicking (children are exempt).

- This one was hillarious too. And trust me, I don't know how many times i have been asked that!

6. If you witness someone calling the US Coast Guard 'non-military', inform them of their mistake---and kick their ass.

- do you know how many people don't know that the guards are the first to be deployed during a war time, or that they are the ones that had been the first to help after 9/11. but it really is funny to hear people say this too.

7. Next time Old Glory (the US flag) prances by during a parade, get on your damn feet and pay homage to her by placing your hand over your heart.  Quietly thank the military member or veteran lucky enough to be carrying her---of course, failure to do either of those could earn you a severe ass-kicking.

-doop! i don't know how many times at a parade i forgot to do that. i was trained that i am that flag while active duty and that i was to stand at attention.

8. Don't try to discuss politics with a military member or a veteran.  We are Americans, and we all bleed the same, regardless of our party affiliation.  The President (for those who didn't know) is our CinC regardless of political party.  We have no inside track on what happens inside those big important buildings where all those representatives meet  All we know is that when those civilian representatives screw up the situation, they call upon the military to go straighten it out.  If you keep asking us the same stupid questions repeatedly, you will get your ass kicked!

- please i don't know a vet who doesn't talk about politics...in fact this Vet is talking about politics in writing this thing.

9. 'Your mama wears combat boots' never made sense to me---stop saying it!  If she did, she would most likely be a vet and therefore, could kick your ass!

-come on guys...this is fucking funny! it is just joking about a stupid statement.


11. 'Flyboy' (Air Force), 'Jarhead' (Marines), 'Grunt' (Army), 'Squid' (Navy), 'Puddle Jumpers' (Coast Guard), etc., are terms of endearment we use describing each other.  Unless you are a service member or vet, you have not earned the right to use them.  That could get your ass kicked.

- Vets have an internal jabbing of who is the better branch. It does sound weird when we hear civilians speak our terms. But those term discribe well what their jobs are during war, and are only joked about with the greatest respect.

12. Last, but not least, whether or not you become a member of the military, support our troops and their families.  Every Thanksgiving and religious holiday that you enjoy with family and friends, please remember that there are literally thousands of soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen far from home wishing they could be with their families.  Thank God for our military and the sacrifices they make every day.  Without them, our country would get it's ass kicked."

- Seriously...it is the hardest thing being away during the holidays so support them...just not the war.

"It is the Veteran, not the reporter who has given us the freedom of the press.

"It is the Veteran, not the poet, who has given us the freedom of speech.

It is the Veteran, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.

"It is the Military who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag."


I will add one more:

If you ever see anyone either standing for or singing the national anthem in Spanish - KICK THEIR ASS!

- What?...If we all desented from the England i would say that is fine...but we don't. We are a beautiful mix of many nations who came here in hope of a new life with better values. If we don't like what we see rignt now, then we need to come together and find solutions. Tearing each other apart will not accomplish this. If anything, this just gives more power to those who are running the country.


 




Ok...off my soap box. -c

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 6:35:10 PM   
WyrdRich


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JerseyKrissi72

I don't have to think about that at all Sir because if you can give birth to four 8 pound + sons in five years (2 children of which are only 11 months apart), have hypothyroidism and type 2 diabetes along with a condition that causes immense pain in your heals and STILL be physically fit...give me a call.....I am happy with who I am and so is my Dom..and that is all that matters.......ignorance and racism is the biggest problem we face in the U.S.. how about you think about that son?



      Interesting you should bring up reproductive freedom Krissi, in China, the government tells women how many children they can have.

     Ignorance certainly is an issue we deal with every day here.

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 6:45:21 PM   
Dtesmoac


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US is the most military obsessed country I have ever come across, it borders on worship.

Poets - read the WWI war poets, soldiers that really understood war.....!

Protesters in Tierneman Square - where protesting against this kind of mindless bowing down to nationalism, not for unconditional belief in a flag.

For non Americans the latest recruitment slogan for the US army is "Army Strong" and the news actually goes into whole sections about the meaning of this and how emotional it is.........they actually paid someone to come up with this slogan...! 

Show respect for forces personnel but this expectation of mindless obesiance to a bit of cloth and to the many who "wore a uniform" and talk the vet speak and the "occasional real war veterans" just simply get real and get your heads out of each others asses.   
My Dads childhood included being bombed nightly, his sister was in the Royal Navy in her teens daily watching colleagues die, and his brother left school to drown in the Atlantic, they comemerate "veterans" with dignaty not this nationalistic jingoistic crap. Key message they and other non American veterans I know talk of is that generally they fought against people from countries where unquestioning loyalty to the flag was the norm.


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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 6:58:47 PM   
MasterKalif


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Well, pre-WWI Germany was very militaristic, as is Israel, as, North Korea...(obsesed with its army)....and where I am from, Chile, people of all walks of life praise the military, navy, air force, and even the Police (Carabineros). Its not a US-only phenomena to love or praise the military...and the US is not the only that fights for its flag, etc, but the US is the only one who does it pretending that what is good for their national interests must be good for the whole world.

By the way, the Tianmen Square protesters were not protesting "mindless nationalism" but rather were seeking "openness" or relaxation of central rule by the communist party (democracy would be too radical for them to seek, they wanted opennnes)

< Message edited by MasterKalif -- 10/12/2006 7:01:20 PM >

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 7:00:03 PM   
MasterRenegade77


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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation



And last but no way least - shame on you for trying to pass yourself off as a vet. Does that mean you need your ass kicking?




Never did I claim to be a veteran, had you read any of the thread except the initial post you'd have known that...




 




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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 7:07:05 PM   
MstrssScarlet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I am a military retiree.   I don't agree with the rules.  I don't think we should kick their asses.   I am disappointed when I see these things.   I am upset by them.   I hate them.   But I would die defending their right to do them.

I have been called a babykiller.   I have been shot at in my home in Oakland because I wore the uniform.  I have been thrown out of places of business because of my haircut and the way I walk.  And only once did I retaliate (when they beat up one of my soldiers for being military)   I won't tell you what I did but my troops felt a whole lot better about it.

I cry at the National Anthem.   I cry at taps.  I cry when Lee Greenwood sings "God Bless the USA"  (btw   his niece - a military retiree and friend - just died)   I cry at patriotic celebrations.   I cry when the flag passes.   I get really pissed when it is degraded.

I believe in the objectives of our republic.   I don't always agree with those appointed - by the people - over me.   But I will follow all lawful orders.   I would sacrafice my children (4), grandchildren (11) and great grand children (10) supporting those objectives because they serve the people of our country.

Like Viet Nam, the congress gave the President the authority to go fight battles whereever in the world in the name of our repbulic.   The congress was elected by the people, thus through extension, the people granted the President the power.  The role of the soldier is then to support the public will.   He doesn't have to agree.   He doesn't have to like it.   But he has to follow it.  That is his job.

If the people don't like it, they have a constitutional obligation to change it.   The best way to do that, I believe, is to run for political office.  Protest and shows of dissatisfaction are basically meaningless and are selfserving.  Running for political office, is meaningful and productive - win or lose - because you did someting proactive.

SFC/USA
Retired


Thank you.  Well said and to the point, although everyone seems to be missing it.
Mistress Scarlet

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 7:10:05 PM   
gooddogbenji


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So how about not just copying and pasting, but removing the quote which implies you're a veteran?

The only thing worse than implying a lie is defending it with "I didn't outright say it."

Yours,


benji

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 8:09:07 PM   
MasterKalif


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while I admit I dislike any form of flag burning (because it is a symbol that represents a people, a nation), I do not advocate any ass-kicking, to me that is ignorance as much as those who burn the flag...while I respect those who do not wish to sing the anthem, I think one needs to separate the anthem and state symbols from an unfair and unjustified war in Iraq. I for one do not sing the American national anthem or anything like that not to be disrespectful, but simply because I am not a citizen of this country, the day they let me become a citizen and all that, I will be more than happy to.

mindless nationalism is not the answer, it is ok and good to love your country, but don't over do it, don't think in black and white, and recognize that your country (Im speaking generically here not only addressed to Americans) is not perfect....love it, but don't expect everyone to feel the same.

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 8:11:58 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RazorJAK

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Pointing out that which you already know Lam:

Hitler was a corporal.

LOLOLOL,
Ron


And an artist and a vegetarian ... :-)




Dont forget partially Jewish by birth.

Sinergy

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 8:55:06 PM   
RazorJAK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRenegade77

I will add one more:

If you ever see anyone either standing for or singing the national anthem in Spanish - KICK THEIR ASS!



I've had time to cool off,  sleep,  eat and have a long shift at work to decompress over those jackass "rules".  This will be the only one I comment on due to the rest being dissected sufficiantly.

ANYONE who actually believes that statement is anything but repugnant ... even if said as a joke ... can just line up while I punch you in the throat and piss in your open mouth as you gasp for breath.

I will then proceed to sing the song in Anishnaabekwan while you lay there gargling on my recycled beer.

This country has no OFFICIAL language.  Yes,  english is the common and accepted language.  But it is not the OFFICIAL language.  People have the right to sing the song in any language they are most comfortable with.

This is one of my pet peeves.  Mostly due to the fact that there was a pogram directed against my ancestors' language in an attempt to "whiten the redskins".(1)  Even now,  the number in my generation fluent in the tongue most likely wouldn't even fill a  large classroom.  So talk of making something forbidden to be spoken of or sung in anything but english kinda sticks in my craw.

(1)  There were quite a few who complimented my mother when I was born because of how light-skinned I was.  "Oh,  he's so fortunate.  He'll be able to pass."  Yes,  the repercussions of that shit was still going on up into the 70s.

Okay,  I've vented.


< Message edited by RazorJAK -- 10/12/2006 8:56:19 PM >

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 8:59:57 PM   
juliaoceania


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Not to mention how many native Spanish speakers are in our military to obtain citizenship through their service

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 9:03:42 PM   
JerseyKrissi72


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if i felt like burning a flag i would....being patriotic and supporting the government don't mean shit cause they are gonna do whatever it is they want to do regardless to what "we" feel..all elections are rigged, your vote is like pissing in a pot..we all do it..can you sort it out and find out where yours is? lol...i just don't care.

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RE: Rules for the Non Military (From a Veteran) - 10/12/2006 9:05:36 PM   
Dtesmoac


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Earlier in the thread the Tianamen Square protest was used as an argument for the inital post so my point was aimed at that comment.

Many countries and societies go through a phase of significant militarism, but in many parts of the world the main democracies seem to have moved onto a point where the military is respected but not unconditionally beloved of the population. The inital coment and other parts of this thread imply that many contributors feel the USA should not pass beyond this "worshipful respect" phase.

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