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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 6:25:17 AM

smilezz

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OoH Rah!! well said.

~smilezz~

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 7:17:07 AM

LadyMorgynn

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So was I. I'm a Vietnam Era veteran.

I wasn't aware that our unprecedented invasion of a foreign sovereign nation had anything to do with freedom... theirs OR ours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Master2akasha

Too bad good men and woman have died for your right to put them down and insult them with your comments, but guess what... they would not have it any other way, its called being free and last I checked Freedom was not nor will it ever be free. so remember that the next time you shoot your mouth or in this case your fingers off and put down the men and women for having the moral nerve to stand up and defend what you take for granted.

Yes if you are wondering I was in the service.. USAF (ret).

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 7:23:58 AM

LadyMorgynn

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I'm sorry, but this has what to do with our soldiers in Iraq?

quote:

ORIGINAL: UnvailedPurpose
Your definition of courage is not rooted in the raging flames of hand-to-hand combat or the defense of probable damage and death inflicted upon the citizens of this great nation.

I didn't say anything derogatory about our soldiers defending our country. When it is MY HOME, I will be right there fighting beside our soldiers with any weapon to hand that I can find. Funny, how Iraqi's who are defending their own homes from foreign invaders are insurgents and terrorists. Of course, there are now REAL terrorists there in Iraq doing terrorist attacks against the Iraqi's, but that's because our invasion and forcible occupation made Iraq a shining beacon for every anti-American terrorist in the world, most understandably. In fact, it could even be argued (successfully) that by our invasion of Iraq, WE became the terrorists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: UnvailedPurpose
However, your right to defile and defame the gallantry and courage of our underpaid warriors is a given, a given they protect and insure. Should the time come where it is your home, your parents and your children, that are being murdered and it certainly will come
if you have your way, then I strongly suspect you will be one of the first to protest against our military for not doing their job. SemperFi

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 8:01:05 AM

WyrdRich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

So was I. I'm a Vietnam Era veteran.

OK. This makes your smug dismissal of the sacrifice discussed in the OP even more offensive to me. Shame on you.

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 8:03:51 AM

LotusSong

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

So was I. I'm a Vietnam Era veteran.

OK. This makes your smug dismissal of the sacrifice discussed in the OP even more offensive to me. Shame on you.

Ever hear of "Those that do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it"?

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 8:18:09 AM

pqwinny

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Courage is not the absence of fear, it is action in spite of it.

There is an instinctual self-preservation button within us all. We are hard wired that way. Even a true pacifist will defend themselves or their ideals albeit peacefully.

The truth is, in the comfort of my single family home in the suburbs on a sunny Sunday morning with a coffee by my side while i engage in discourse from my laptop about the ideological bravery of others -soldiers or citizens- who are at the very same moment dodging bullets and debris from explosions, i really have no right to judge criticize or complain about someone else who might need to pull a trigger and end someone elses life today so that they might be able to live another day or the rest of this one.

The unfortunate reality is that since the begining of time humans have been killing each other over land or different beliefs which all boils down to fear in one form or another.

Imagine if we could all simply acknowledge that each of us is sometimes afraid of things, recognize when that is driving or motivating us and figure out a way to communicate that to the other guy and then figure out how to eleviate the fear in a mutually satisfactory way. Repeat as necessary. Simple in theory, apparently insurmountable in application.

i don't get to judge anybody for what they have to do today to stay alive whether i agree with the politics that lead them to it or not. i'm as much a part of the problem as anybody else simply because i'm a citizen of the planet.

i am thankful that i'm not in a situation with a gun on my lap instead of a computer and i pray for those who are. That is my contribution to the solution today.

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 8:21:06 AM

CrappyDom

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Nobody gives a fat fuck about the troops, give me a frigging break.

Did anyone bitch about invading the wrong country?
Did anyone bitch that America didn't run 24/7 shifts to make more armor?
Did anyone bitch about the fact anyone in the NG has had their lives destroyed, their families and jobs lost?
Did anyone bitch that we are doing nothing to reduce our dependence on Muslim controled ME oil?
Did anyone demand we make sacrifices at home to help the troops?
Did anyone bitch about sending them with too few troops?
Did anyone bitch about sending them with inadequate or antiquated equipment?
Did anyone bitch about leadership which refused to deal with reality?
Did anyone bitch when they died on patrol but were refused combat death pay because they were not being actively fired upon?
Did anyone bitch when Bush cut VA funding?
Did anyone bitch when they blamed corporals for their torture policy?

I could go on but people handwringing over the "brave troops" are crying crocodile tears and in reality don't give a rats ass about anyone in the military.

< Message edited by CrappyDom -- 10/15/2006 8:30:02 AM >

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 8:24:57 AM

meatcleaver

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Nice post CD. If ones country was really in danger and really cared all your questions would be answered with a positive.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/15/2006 8:27:48 AM >

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 8:29:22 AM

CrappyDom

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The ACLU has done as much if not more to keep us free than was done in most of the wars we have seen since the Revolution. It was commies and pinkos that actually volunteered to fight fascism in Spain and fired the first American shots against the Nazis all while Republicans were busy doing Hitler's banking (Bush's grandad) and leasing him computers to make gassing the jews more orderly (IBM) as well as attemping coups against Roosevelt.

I say the above as I am organizing a massive drive among local craftsman to make a hand made pen of California hardwoods for each of the California National Guard troops in Iraq. While I am not military I come from a long line of ACLU members, union members, all of whom served in the military, many of them in combat.

And if WE had been listened to, we wouldn't have lost 3,000+ American lives and god knows how many arms and legs in a useless war that only helps our enemies, so kiss my fat white ass!

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 8:35:46 AM

MistressCamille

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Two nice posts CD!

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 9:28:26 AM

WyrdRich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Nobody gives a fat fuck about the troops, give me a frigging break.

Did anyone bitch about invading the wrong country?
Did anyone bitch that America didn't run 24/7 shifts to make more armor?
Did anyone bitch about the fact anyone in the NG has had their lives destroyed, their families and jobs lost?
Did anyone bitch that we are doing nothing to reduce our dependence on Muslim controled ME oil?
Did anyone demand we make sacrifices at home to help the troops?
Did anyone bitch about sending them with too few troops?
Did anyone bitch about sending them with inadequate or antiquated equipment?
Did anyone bitch about leadership which refused to deal with reality?
Did anyone bitch when they died on patrol but were refused combat death pay because they were not being actively fired upon?
Did anyone bitch when Bush cut VA funding?
Did anyone bitch when they blamed corporals for their torture policy?

I could go on but people handwringing over the "brave troops" are crying crocodile tears and in reality don't give a rats ass about anyone in the military.

Some did Crappy, some did. Unfortunately, they were drowned out by a bleating mass of "rebellion is cool," and "Bush is ba-a-ad," lowest common denominator fools. Those in power allowed their credibility to be compromised by pandering to the flock. It's kind of hard to have a reasonable discussion when the starting point devolves to "Bush is an idiot."

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 9:30:35 AM

CrappyDom

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Uh, when people like me raised those questions, people like you called me traitor for it so YOU are one of the ones who was and still is silent on those issues as far as I am concerned. YOU still support Lieberman and bitched that he was thrown out of the Dems, Lieberman still supports bush and his war to support Al Queda so Rich, you aren't one of the good guys yet.

I do agree that calling Bush an idiot is wrong. It is an insult to idiots everywhere.

< Message edited by CrappyDom -- 10/15/2006 9:32:04 AM >

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 10:15:30 AM

WyrdRich

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People like me huh? You mean blue collar types who have traditionally voted for Democrats? The kind of people who kept the Dems in power for 40 years? The kind of people who said "enough of this shit" and gave Nixon a landslide? Maybe you should listen a little bit when "people like me" are sufficiently disgusted with what you are doing to apply a term like 'treasonous bastard."

You are damn right I support Lieberman. I hope like hell the Dems take the lesson of his victory in a few weeks. The party is being fragmented by extremists I must reject. Even if my votes will be strictly symbolic in a few weeks, I cannot give them to a party led by hate.

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 10:34:19 AM

defiantbadgirl

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Al Queda is everywhere. Terrorism is everywhere. Unfortunately terrorism is too widespread to completely be stopped, so we're fighting a losing battle. Meanwhile, what are the uninjured troops going to do after they're out of the armed forces? There won't be any jobs that immigrants haven't filled or outsorcing hasn't taken overseas. I do respect our troops. But the government needs to stop ordering them to do the impossible and start concentrating on banning outsourcing and limiting immigration so they will have jobs when they get back, so their families will have jobs, so everyone will have jobs. The government is so worried about terrorism but we're letting all these Islams immigrate to our country. It makes no sense.

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 10:38:06 AM

mnottertail

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LOL,

buc Buc BUC!

It's CCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiicccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkeeeeeeeennMAAAAAAAAAAAnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!
He's EVERYWHERE! He's EVERYWHER!!

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 10:53:21 AM

popeye1250

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Unfortunately we've had two DUDS in a row and they both attended "Yale."
Plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 10:56:29 AM

CrappyDom

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The party isn't fragmented, we are just throwing out our closet Republicans, there are Republicans more moderate than Lieberman.

I can sympathize with those who were fooled by this administration and supported the war at first, but I cannot support any politician too stupid to see through them by 2004, let alone today. Lieberman is still supporting a policy rejected by a growing number of Republicans. It is Lieberman who is the extremist.

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 11:09:06 AM

subjected2006

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 3:29:16 PM

MistressCamille

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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

But the government needs to stop ordering them to do the impossible and start concentrating on banning outsourcing and limiting immigration so they will have jobs when they get back, so their families will have jobs, so everyone will have jobs. The government is so worried about terrorism but we're letting all these Islams immigrate to our country. It makes no sense.

First of all, the government already limits immigration.

Second point is that "all these Islams" aren't involved in the mess we call Iraq, and most who are are innocently trying to escape the nasty mess created by Bush. Being Islamic doesn't make you a terrorist. Tim Mcveigh was not Islamic.

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RE: We owe these brave people something... - 10/15/2006 3:46:13 PM

defiantbadgirl

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Of course there are terrorists who aren't Islamic, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree that Islam doesn't make men terrorists........at the very least it makes them terrorists to women. Did you know that if a woman is raped, her family can kill her? I believe they call those "honor killings" I do feel sorry for women from Iraq trying to escape the mess, but what about all the immigrants from India? There isn't even a war there. If immigration is so limited, then why did so many IT workers lose their jobs not only to outsourcing, but also to immigrants? If immigration was limited, there would be enough jobs for everyone and Americans wouldn't be losing their jobs to these foreigners. We need a government that believes in real limits. What kind of government allows it's own US citizens to lose their jobs to immigrants?

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