quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
Hot damn, I actually agree with you about something!

The auto industry is a fine example of what you're talking about.  Employees wanted higher wages while the rest of us wanted to pay less for cars.  It is perplexing to me to see people driving around in Hondas while sporting an American Flag bumper sticker.  We spend our money on foreign made products because it is cheaper to do so, but in doing so, we shovel money right out of our own economy and into someone else's.  Look around your homes - how much was made in America?  Now it's true, that in the 70s American products were lacking in a major way - particularly in electronics and autos - but if we do not support our own country, aren't we just encouraging more outsourcing?

Note:  I didn't read the whole thread.  This post caught my attention and I wanted to respond to it. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

My great uncle was decorated in WWI and when he died, comrades came to his funeral from where they had emigrated to from all over the world he was so admired by the men he fought along side. I remember him showing me and my brother his meddles when we were young and telling us that he was a coward and if he had real courage he wouldn't have been fighting the Germans but shooting the politicians that sent him and his comrades to war. He said that with such forcefulness and such sincerity it has never left me. Supporting troops blindly only helps the politicians and not the troops.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bbwcraves

i've been reading this thread and i have to say i wasn't going to post.  i'm sure i will get criticized and perhaps get an eye roll or two but i will put my two sense worth in.  For what it is worth i guess.
 
First off, i am a military wife, and damn proud of my husband.  He's served his country, he's looked the angel of death in the eye and come out of it...nightmares, scars and all, but alive.  i've waited, worried, cried, and worried some more that he wouldn't return from a deployment, that i wouldn't get that phone call that he was okay after a mission.  i sat and cried and pucked my guts up when i was called and said his plane was lost and wept in relief when given the call that he was safe.  Sometime i wonder if the people who fight like i see on this forum really know what it is like to be in his shoes...sometimes it makes me shake my head and sigh in sadness.  He may not agree with what is being asked of him, but he does it, because to do other wise would be dishonoring what others before him have honored.  Does he get discouraged?  Yes, he does, i'm sure others in this war and the waste of this world we live in do.  People talk out thier asses about how wrong we are for doing what is being done, and for all the talk is worth the bottom line is....our men and women are there, fighting and dying, worrying, crying, missing home.  In my humble opinion, we should support them more, show them how much thier courage means, even if we disagree that they have to be there.  i admire them.   i also send a thanks to the other wives and spouse out there who keep them hopeful and keep the home front for their return.  It isn't an easy job, but we do it.
 
I'm sure this applies to any soldier that has fought a war anywhere in the world. To be living in fear of your life on a daily basis miles from home is not a way to live life for anyone.
 
I think what some are trying to say is that it is wrong for the Government to place young men and women in this position and the only way to prevent it in the future is to stand up and say it is wrong. Otherwise, in 10 years time it will be more of the same in another part of the world - more fighting and dying, worrying and crying.
 
If the argument is that the soldier is duty bound to follow the Government into war then I accept this. I fully accept that walking away from the army is not like leaving a civilian job. However, the paradox here is that while Americans seem deeply suspicious of Government they have no such reservations when it comes to following orders from the Government in the respect of invading a foreign country.
 
You can fight and bicker here, on this forum where you aren't dodging bullets or where you can't be called to task for your words, but its fruitless.  i appauld the ones that are trying to do something, i really do.  But what would matter most to the ones that are out there fighting the war you people are fighting over here is just simple support.  Even if it is a word of thanks, even if you didn't agree.  Yyour safe on your computers while they are out there doing what they have too.
 
As for immigration, well i happen to think that should be cut back.  i do agree with that.  i also think it should be a requirement that everyone speak english, but hey that's a whole new ball of wax. 
 
Ignore what i say as you wish, tear it apart i'm sure you will.  But i happen to live with someone who jumps at the sound of a gun, who has the nightmares and the sweats.  i held him when he cried, and i hate it when people want to fight more then they want to stand up and say, Hey thanks, even if i don't agree with it, i do thank you. 
 
Anyway, its off my chest, be well all.

quote:

The problem on this subject is the depth of emotion attached and the centuries of propaganda to the effect that war = fighting for freedom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bbwcraves

i've been reading this thread and i have to say i wasn't going to post.  i'm sure i will get criticized and perhaps get an eye roll or two but i will put my two sense worth in.  For what it is worth i guess.
 
First off, i am a military wife, and damn proud of my husband.  He's served his country, he's looked the angel of death in the eye and come out of it...nightmares, scars and all, but alive.  i've waited, worried, cried, and worried some more that he wouldn't return from a deployment, that i wouldn't get that phone call that he was okay after a mission.  i sat and cried and pucked my guts up when i was called and said his plane was lost and wept in relief when given the call that he was safe.  Sometime i wonder if the people who fight like i see on this forum really know what it is like to be in his shoes...sometimes it makes me shake my head and sigh in sadness.  He may not agree with what is being asked of him, but he does it, because to do other wise would be dishonoring what others before him have honored.  Does he get discouraged?  Yes, he does, i'm sure others in this war and the waste of this world we live in do.  People talk out thier asses about how wrong we are for doing what is being done, and for all the talk is worth the bottom line is....our men and women are there, fighting and dying, worrying, crying, missing home.  In my humble opinion, we should support them more, show them how much thier courage means, even if we disagree that they have to be there.  i admire them.   i also send a thanks to the other wives and spouse out there who keep them hopeful and keep the home front for their return.  It isn't an easy job, but we do it.
 
You can fight and bicker here, on this forum where you aren't dodging bullets or where you can't be called to task for your words, but its fruitless.  i appauld the ones that are trying to do something, i really do.  But what would matter most to the ones that are out there fighting the war you people are fighting over here is just simple support.  Even if it is a word of thanks, even if you didn't agree.  Yyour safe on your computers while they are out there doing what they have too.
 
As for immigration, well i happen to think that should be cut back.  i do agree with that.  i also think it should be a requirement that everyone speak english, but hey that's a whole new ball of wax. 
 
Ignore what i say as you wish, tear it apart i'm sure you will.  But i happen to live with someone who jumps at the sound of a gun, who has the nightmares and the sweats.  i held him when he cried, and i hate it when people want to fight more then they want to stand up and say, Hey thanks, even if i don't agree with it, i do thank you.  
 
To clarify bbw, my post wasn't intended to tear yours apart, it was simply an explanation of the opposing view.
 
The quote about nightmares/sweats/crying - this is exactly why people should stand up and say it is wrong. In this country, we have the benefit of the experience of our Government sending us into countless wars that history tells us were purely to serve the interests of the establishment. Young men and women shouldn't have to go through what you have described simply because the Government tells the people that there are a group of people somewhere who wants to kill us/you.

 Anyway, its off my chest, be well all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Supporting troops blindly only helps the politicians and not the troops.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

So was I.  I'm a Vietnam Era veteran.

I wasn't aware that our unprecedented invasion of a foreign sovereign nation had anything to do with freedom... theirs OR ours. 

quote:



I would hardly call this war unprecedented. Remember 1991? Oh, and I dont hear anyone complaining about Clinton invading Bosnia, or sending troops to Somaila?

Did you know the US military engaged in action in more countries around the world under Clinton than any other President(with the exception of WWI an WWII)

(in reply to LadyMorgynn)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

The problem on this subject is the depth of emotion attached and the centuries of propaganda to the effect that war = fighting for freedom.

Well articulated, Gent.

I was reading the news this early morning and noticed this poll had just been released - I think it's pretty amazing. Kinda ties into the last part of your post.

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/13469

quote:

ORIGINAL: NavyDDG54

EXCUSE ME? Supporting us doesnt help us? WTF are you smoking? We could do our job every day, make the sacrifices we makes every day with the support of the citizens of the United States of America. That blind support is what enables us to do our jobs, and to protect the freedoms granted in the Constitution. Get off your propoganda machine and look at reality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

Too bad they were not brave enough to stand up and say "This is WRONG and I won't go."  That takes true courage that few have these days.

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ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

You want to keep American jobs?  Then you are going to have to get used to paying more for everything and making do with less.  You really ready for that?

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ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

You want to keep American jobs?  Then you are going to have to get used to paying more for everything and making do with less.  You really ready for that?

That's about it in a nutshell, folks.