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Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 3:08:01 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I have been pondering something lately, and that is the letting go of my limitations within play. I have been rethinking some of my hard limits, namely one that I never thought I would let go of because it "scared" me. I have already relaxed a few soft limits, but not even one of my hard ones.

It has begun this exploration inside of why I even have limits, and what purpose do they really serve for me? I think letting go of this one limit deals with keeping a dominant from fully posessing me. It was not about fear, it was about control, keeping control over this aspect meant I keep him out of my head just that little bit. I will never say I have no limits of course, I DO have limits... I am not going to tell anyone it is ok to cut things off my body for example, or tatoo my forehead with the mark of the beast...smiles. But I am just noting that maybe some of my limits are about trust and about keeping walls up. I thought my soft limits represented trust issues, and my hard ones were the "No way ever no matter how much I trust you" issues... I am finding it is a murkier thing than that, and not that clear cut at all.

I have not yet told him the limit I want to test, so I am not going to talk about it in this opening post, and I think it is because I am able to trust that little bit more that I am even able to admit this... as all deepening trust is a process and not a destination this is a growth step in my mind.

I am wondering how many have went through this process from different sides of the flogger so to speak?

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/16/2006 3:12:02 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Post #: 1

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 3:13:06 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

"Letting Go" is one of the hardest muscles to exercise.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 2

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 3:17:13 PM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

For myself, I really have very few hard limits, and I have been lucky in that the person I am talking with now has the same limits in regards to those that I have. There are a few we differ on; like piercing, but those are just such small things that I don't see them as a big deal in regards to myself.

However, your comment about why a person actually has hard limits is pretty close to the mark with me. It all boils down to trust, and letting go of that last bit of control that I maintain in the relationship. ( this is just in regards to how I see it, not as a general statement for all )

Personally, the fact that you are looking to expand and remove some of those limits shows how far you have progressed in your relationship; and that's a good thing.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 3

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 3:19:03 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

About a limit, I ask myself, what will happen if I DON"T let it go, what will happen if I DO let it go. How will submitting to this enhance my relationship. How will submitting to this make me feel?

Not everything is easy, and most Doms know there will be some things that have to wrestled. Not everyone goes into this stuff like a limp rag that can wrung out. And what type of Dom would want that sort of sub, anyway?

What has been easy for me is that I am allowed to process these difficult things. It's not an all or nothing decide right now situation. I can talk about it, raise my concerns, be heard. That doesn't change the fact that I am expected to submit, but I am allowed time to process.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 4

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 3:22:19 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I have not yet told him the limit I want to test, so I am not going to talk about it in this opening post, and I think it is because I am able to trust that little bit more that I am even able to admit this... as all deepening trust is a process and not a destination this is a growth step in my mind.

julia,
The most important part of your decision is contained in the paragraph I quoted. Good for you that you have someone you can trust; GREAT for him to have earned that trust!

You don't have to tell him what limit you are thinking about removing. It would be better to let him know that he has earned this consideration. Announce it by saying to him; "Master - From this day forward, Your limits are mine!"

Congrats! Good Luck!

Enjoy!!!

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 5

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 3:30:03 PM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline

I would just say tread carefully, julia. This has nothing to do with Sinergy...it has to do with you. Sometimes, sometimes mind you, we have hard limits as protection...not necessarily protection from another, but from ourselves or from what we cannot face. Limits do change over time; at least, that's what I've noticed. Maybe that's what's happening here.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 6

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 3:32:02 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

I adore this topic, Julia. :) Limits are like little lifelines that you can hold on to which do, indeed say, I'm in control of this aspect.. I say when, how, who.. etc.

It's easy to say..

"Hey, don't even begin to think you're going to ever be allowed to cut off one of my legs just to satisfy some kink you have!"

If that's a hard limit, getting to the point where you have given up that part of the control is no different than saying.. "Hey, I trust that you will never cut off one of my legs to satisfy some kink which you have."

When you get the trust, then you are entirely correct.. what use are limits? I mean, is someone who you even think for a second is going to ever cut off your leg going to be able to earn your trust in the first place?

It is a process and it takes both parties to get through that process. The one party who has to maintain their integrity in order to get the trust .. and the other to get to the point and realize that someone has proven themselves worthy of that trust and then begin to let go of all the little lifelines they've been holding on to for dear life.

Also, the more you let go of the lifelines and the fewer they get.. the harder someone tends hang on to the ones which are left .. and it takes just that much more internal reflection to finally let go of those as well. I don't believe it's possible to trust someone else unless you have fully examined what's inside your own head first. There is such a thing as 'blind' faith and I do believe that a lot of dominants (especially those who are newer to wiitwd) think that a snap of the fingers will instill that faithfulness in someone immediately because they have a certain orientation. Sadly, they are often right .. which rather holds hands with sub frenzy.. or newbie-itis.

There are some people who will never be able or who will choose not to ever let go of their lifelines .. and there are others who let go much too quickly. I think if you don't allow yourself to go through the process, to take your time, reflect on the 'why', you are setting yourself up for relapse into old ways. It's like.. opps.. I let that one go.. GIVE IT BACK! I didn't mean it!!

::chuckles::

I'm going to stop here now, but I will be watching this thread closely.. and I know a few others who will be as well.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 7

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 3:46:40 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

It's almost a universal experience. Which is the smart thing really- you're not ready to do it ALL when you first start out and you shouldn't try. Over time you gain experience, exposure and education to broaden out.

And most subs are so completely overwhelmed that they tend to just throw up a "NO WAY NEVER!" at the things that scare them...often to their own chagrin later.

My limits are hard. I don't distinguish between soft and hard. There are things I won't do, and there are things that are open to discussion- that's it.

My limits are based on my understanding of self and biology- it doesn't matter how skilled or trustworthy someone is, I'm not having unprotected sex with them, or sharing their blood casually.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 8

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 3:47:16 PM

SlaveAkasha

Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline

I have my certain hard limits, that I feel like everyone in the universe knows. I am very happily with someone that has most of the same ones though, so I at least don't have to worry about the majority being pushed by him.

Watersports, and rimming were both hard ones for me. I have found though that with my Master, I am starting to be open to these like never before.

I think when you are with someone, and you start to open up and know you can trust them, the things that might have seemed really horrid, aren't so bad anymore. I have never been soft on those before Master, and never thought I would do them.

I have told him that I might be open to them now, and he is very excited. He asked me why and I told him, that because they were limits for me, it makes me feel deeper in my submission to him, and his control over me that I would do them for him. We haven't explored either yet, but I am sure we will in the future. I am a bit nervous, but when I do them, I will just remember the reason why, and how much I care about him.

I think you are just growing in trust of yours, and you know deep in your soul that he would never do anything to damage you mentally, or physically. That is the greatest gift from Dom to sub, and sub to Dom.

Masters Akasha

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Tank Girl

www.peta.org
www.goveg.com

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 9

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 3:56:53 PM

Areflectionofyou

Posts: 258
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline

I myself am going through something very similiar inside as well. I have few limits. My biggest is the trust to completely submit at this point. I was collared in a 13 year Master/slave marriage where he had complete control and only his limits as our own. Its hard laying that level of trust again.
jennifer

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have been pondering something lately, and that is the letting go of my limitations within play. I have been rethinking some of my hard limits, namely one that I never thought I would let go of because it "scared" me. I have already relaxed a few soft limits, but not even one of my hard ones.

It has begun this exploration inside of why I even have limits, and what purpose do they really serve for me? I think letting go of this one limit deals with keeping a dominant from fully posessing me. It was not about fear, it was about control, keeping control over this aspect meant I keep him out of my head just that little bit. I will never say I have no limits of course, I DO have limits... I am not going to tell anyone it is ok to cut things off my body for example, or tatoo my forehead with the mark of the beast...smiles. But I am just noting that maybe some of my limits are about trust and about keeping walls up. I thought my soft limits represented trust issues, and my hard ones were the "No way ever no matter how much I trust you" issues... I am finding it is a murkier thing than that, and not that clear cut at all.

I have not yet told him the limit I want to test, so I am not going to talk about it in this opening post, and I think it is because I am able to trust that little bit more that I am even able to admit this... as all deepening trust is a process and not a destination this is a growth step in my mind.

I am wondering how many have went through this process from different sides of the flogger so to speak?

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 10

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 4:16:13 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

What a lovely thought

(in reply to Areflectionofyou)

Post #: 11

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 4:38:36 PM

diamonddreamlove

Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline

I have always had limits also. Recently talking to my Dom we discussed that in order for Him to collar me i would need to give up my limits. I understand His reasoning but have not been able to do it completely yet. His idea is that as long as i have limits i do not trust Him completely with all of me. When put this way i certainly understand that i do have limits that are withholding or holding back my complete trust in Him. It is very difficult for me to give up the limits and i am still learning that is is ok. I know in my mind that i can trust Him completely but in my heart i also know i have been hurt soo many times trusting others. So if you can do it get going girl and good luck i think it takes a great deal of courage to do so. P.S. Sir told me over the weekend He knows how deep the struggle is within me by the fact that when i am given a task that is difficult for me i always take a deep breath and then do whatever it is i need to do.

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to farglebargle)

Post #: 12

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 5:45:29 PM

Daddysredhead

Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline

Julia,
I still have the original "checklist" that I printed off the web and completed long ago. I keep it to see how far we have progressed. I say "we" because it is not just me, it is also my Daddy who has sensed a receptiveness in me to "go there." We look it over once in a while and have had a few laughs at how many things were once "NO WAY" that we have now done.

There are also things that I have shared with Him that I am somewhat timid about, but would like to try anyway. He is always very gentle about stretching limits which only deepens my trust of Him. He loves when I tell Him these things, which I usually do when we are traveling in the evening or at night, and there are no distractions (and it's dark - one of my last "hold-outs" when I feel kind of embarrassed to say something). He is very patient, but strong. When a limit is being tested, He always looks me in the eyes and reminds me that He would never betray my trust... but He will push me. So far, so good.

Best of luck as you and your Daddy grow in this area.

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 13

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 6:07:59 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

What has been easy for me is that I am allowed to process these difficult things. It's not an all or nothing decide right now situation. I can talk about it, raise my concerns, be heard. That doesn't change the fact that I am expected to submit, but I am allowed time to process.

This is an important point, the time it takes to slowly go there instead of (what my best friend and I call it) insta-sub.. just add water... it is a process, and I agree, part of the magic of Ds is the process, not the destination

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 14

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 6:12:31 PM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Letting go is very difficult. You have to have that trust in the other to do it. Going to TPE for me was very difficult at first. I thought about limits I was giving up and I realized it didn't bother me. I have trust in my Master, I have accepted his limits are mine. I know he will never let harm come to me. It is a wonderful feeling to know that you can let go.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 15

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 6:17:09 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

You don't have to tell him what limit you are thinking about removing. It would be better to let him know that he has earned this consideration. Announce it by saying to him; "Master - From this day forward, Your limits are mine!"

I would be disobedient if I called him Master, but the rest of it, well yes he has been earning that kind of consideration...smiles

quote:

I would just say tread carefully, julia. This has nothing to do with Sinergy...it has to do with you. Sometimes, sometimes mind you, we have hard limits as protection...not necessarily protection from another, but from ourselves or from what we cannot face. Limits do change over time; at least, that's what I've noticed. Maybe that's what's happening here

The ones for my protection are his limits too, he has probably more limits than I do in some ways, and I have to respect his also, but you are very right, limits protect us not only physically, but emotionally too... we should not give what we cannot afford to part with. It is hard to determine just what that is at times, and caution is a good thing.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 16

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 6:40:09 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

It's easy to say..

"Hey, don't even begin to think you're going to ever be allowed to cut off one of my legs just to satisfy some kink you have!"

If that's a hard limit, getting to the point where you have given up that part of the control is no different than saying.. "Hey, I trust that you will never cut off one of my legs to satisfy some kink which you have."

I think that is something I am beginning to see

quote:

It is a process and it takes both parties to get through that process. The one party who has to maintain their integrity in order to get the trust .. and the other to get to the point and realize that someone has proven themselves worthy of that trust and then begin to let go of all the little lifelines they've been holding on to for dear life.

This is a balancing act. I think that many of us submissives assume that our dominants want our complete capitulation under their control, but that might not be necessarily so. I am learning what exactly he wants control over and what he does not necessarily want responsibility for... and his limits are as valid as my own...

quote:

Also, the more you let go of the lifelines and the fewer they get.. the harder someone tends hang on to the ones which are left .. and it takes just that much more internal reflection to finally let go of those as well. I don't believe it's possible to trust someone else unless you have fully examined what's inside your own head first.

*Grinning at you Celeste*.. how did you know this? This is part of my journey and what he demands of me every single day, to be cognizant of what is going on in me own noggin

. It is also why I believe the walls are coming down, I am forced to consider the fact they are there to begin with.

quote:

There are some people who will never be able or who will choose not to ever let go of their lifelines .. and there are others who let go much too quickly. I think if you don't allow yourself to go through the process, to take your time, reflect on the 'why', you are setting yourself up for relapse into old ways. It's like.. opps.. I let that one go.. GIVE IT BACK! I didn't mean it!!

I remember going through that with my first dynamic... that heart felt groan of giving more than I could afford to the wrong person, and sub frenzy had more than a little to do with my surrendering my boundaries all too easily, that and the silly notion of "love" means you got to "trust".. you do not necessarily have to trust everyone you love.. nor love everyone you trust..

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 17

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 6:41:26 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead

Julia,
I still have the original "checklist" that I printed off the web and completed long ago. I keep it to see how far we have progressed. I say "we" because it is not just me, it is also my Daddy who has sensed a receptiveness in me to "go there." We look it over once in a while and have had a few laughs at how many things were once "NO WAY" that we have now done.

There are also things that I have shared with Him that I am somewhat timid about, but would like to try anyway. He is always very gentle about stretching limits which only deepens my trust of Him. He loves when I tell Him these things, which I usually do when we are traveling in the evening or at night, and there are no distractions (and it's dark - one of my last "hold-outs" when I feel kind of embarrassed to say something). He is very patient, but strong. When a limit is being tested, He always looks me in the eyes and reminds me that He would never betray my trust... but He will push me. So far, so good.

Best of luck as you and your Daddy grow in this area.

We never had a checklist...I guess it would be a great reference point to look back upon as you do, and thanks for the well wishes.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Daddysredhead)

Post #: 18

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 6:46:02 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

The ones for my protection are his limits too, he has probably more limits than I do in some ways, and I have to respect his also,

If we're lucky, maybe a few dominants will weigh in on this thread with some thoughts about letting go of their own limits. I can't imagine they don't also go through an internal processing system if/when someone they own has desires they would like to explore together. (That would be for those dominants willing to explore rather than the group that feels "my way or the highway" which is perfectly fine as well.)

I know that Himself wasn't keen on some of the more intense activities which I enjoy, but he was willing to try some of them out anyway. Some he has decided we won't indulge again, others he has come to embrace and is now equally enthusiastic about them. I imagine he had to go through his own internal process in making the decision to expand in those areas.

Celeste

::my bold::

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 19

RE: Letting Go Of Limits - 10/16/2006 7:01:50 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

So far the things I really want to tryhe wants to also, the things he has limits about are not things I am necessarily anxious to try (thank goodness), so far it has not been a limiting factor because we have so much to try still left to do. But I know there are some things that he would not necessarily want to do that are not limits to me.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/16/2006 7:02:54 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 20

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