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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 5:43:32 AM

gypsylee

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Watch the Mel Gibson movie "What women Want".

noooooo. oh god no. anything but that.

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 5:49:47 AM

Rover

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I wouldn't want to read anyone's mind (I think it would be the lazy way out of having to learn about people as individuals), though I do have a house rule (number 8) stating that "nothing" is not an acceptable response to "what's wrong?". When that question is asked, we already know something is wrong, so it's time to give up the goods.

John

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 6:19:48 AM

Celeste43

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Depends on what your every random thought is, I guess.

For us, transparency refers to feelings. Not momentary ones, but things I worry about, things I'm afraid will show me in a lesser light. He wants those things. I, on the other hand, want his approval, so how can I show him the bad stuff? Because opening up to those things mean I risk his disappointment. A problem I haven't yet solved.

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 7:01:44 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

But.. if Y/you could install a transparency button and read the minds of Y/your partner, would Y/you?

Hearing someone's thoughts, that would be a bit much but having them absolutely unable to lie; that i could live with. Though the truth is in our house we almost always know what the other is thinking anyway.

Sometimes Scooter will say something only to hear identical answers or comments from Jewel and i at the same time; when he sighs we gently remind him that HE was the one who wanted two women in the house, lmao.

But this does kind of fits my honesty theory.

If the human race woke up in the morning completely unable to lie at first life would be an ugly thing but eventually you would only be surrounded by others who really wanted to be around you. No more YES men either.

Think about it, no one wants to hear "yes that dress makes your ass look fat" from a girlfriend they are shopping with. So your friend gives you the little white lie" oh that looks so good on you" and you pay a bunch of money for a dress that really does make your butt look like two Volkswagens racing under a tent.

You might have felt better initially but wouldn't you rather have been told the truth so you could have found a dress that complimented your figure?

lol.....That could work.....but the possibility of spending all day with someone who's arse looks fat in everything, because it IS fat and not being able to fib a little would be 'orrible.........I suppose you could say that it looks LESS fat in THAT one, though.....grin

I don't intend to stop fibbing....it makes people around me feel happy, it doesn't harm anyone. If my Mum asks me if I like her new sofa and she's beaming with joy...... I KNOW she wants me to like it.......and I'm happy to oblige her with a fib...even if I think it's absolutely gross. She can then spend a happy hour telling me how she chose it and why and sharing her happiness with me. If I told her it *wasn't my cup of tea*, it'd take the shine off.

Sometimes people want to be fibbed to and sometimes it really is the nicest thing to do.

agirl

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 7:23:05 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy
Think about it, no one wants to hear "yes that dress makes your ass look fat" from a girlfriend they are shopping with. So your friend gives you the little white lie" oh that looks so good on you" and you pay a bunch of money for a dress that really does make your butt look like two Volkswagens racing under a tent.

You might have felt better initially but wouldn't you rather have been told the truth so you could have found a dress that complimented your figure?

I've never understood this- if your FRIENDS can't be the ones to honestly give you their perspective, who on earth can? This might be why I consider myself to have relatively few friends in the world (I wouldn't know how to fill even a basic wedding party), but considering how little of the time we spend with others is fully our CHOICE, why would we hide away the truth even with them?

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 7:24:36 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

a dress that really does make your butt look like two Volkswagens racing under a tent.

O.K.....no fair...I spent a buck and a half on that cup of coffee and now to see part of it on the screen...

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 7:27:29 AM

RiotGirl

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I really like TwiceHappy's idea of waking up and people not being able to lie anymore. I think the world would be such a better place. Plus no more wondering if what others are saying is the truth and then the whole process of figuring it out, because lets face it folks people lie. No more waiting to discover if they are what they say they are, if they're as honest as they say they are, or if they're lying manipulative little jerks that one needs to steer clear from.

As for the transparency button. Oh hell yes i'd install it on my Dom. He's so good at being mysterious and keeping certian things to himself that i would love to see into that man's head. I'd say i've figured him out about 80% (tho thats iffy) and i would love to see the other 20%. I would LOVE to see the inner workings of his head. I think it'd be quite fascinating.

As for me..... i think the honesty button would get me in alot of trouble. Generally, my honesty is abit too much for people to handle and i have over the years tried to tame down the bluntness that i can have. I generally call ppl as i see them, and i dont think they could handle it. Imagine me telling my grandmother she's a two faced bitch (among other things). ::sigh:: Gawd just imagine how many ppl i would be calling bullshit on time and time again (instead of just smiling and walking away).

As for the transparency button for me in my D/s r/s. i think that would also be a bad idea. I think he hears enough as it is. i do have alot of transparency and honesty with my Dom as 90% of the time there is no escaping it. He tells me i have a "mouth" but i think he likes it better from when i just shut up and say simply "ok" and keep what i am thinking to myself. (imagine what he'd say if he saw the other 10%)

i have in the past had places where i could go and get away from all the shrugging off what i'm thinking, walking away from what i hear or see, or changing my words around so the listener could deal with it easier and thats just being honest about "me" imagine if i had to be honest and transparent about others? I've yet to find anywhere or met anyone who could handle the full truth and bluntness of what i have to say..

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 7:35:56 AM

RiotGirl

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quote:

Sometimes people want to be fibbed to and sometimes it really is the nicest thing to do.

yeah i completely agree.

While i dont agree with out and out lying to people, i do believe in making the truth prettier. We all make judgements on people for good or bad - imagine walking around and seeing those all over. I think no one would ever have any friends and we would all learn about perspective alot better.

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 10/17/2006 7:38:15 AM >

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 7:48:09 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

W/we do talk a lot about transparency. Many big D's say anything an s-type keeps inside is disallowing them valuable information needed to steer the relationship and so on.

subs and slaves try to be forthcoming, and i know there are various levels of comfort with this, but a lot say they at least want to be completely transparent at all times.

But.. if Y/you could install a transparency button and read the minds of Y/your partner, would Y/you?

Big D's, would You install one on Your sub or slave?
Would You agree to wear one as well?

subs and slaves.. would you consent? would you want your Lead to wear one also?

Switches.. oh hell, pick a hat.. lol.

i'm not just asking to be obtuse, i really want to know, what do W/we really feel about our thought-life, and how much do we shield our loved ones from every random thought because we're just not always thinking just wonderful stuff. If every random thought were available to our partners without the benefit of sifting and forming it to communicate it verbally, would it be better for us, or worse?

O.K...to go to a serious answer now: No, I would not want a transparency button. I am perfectly aware that some of my actions might create anguish, angst, anger, anxiety in a submissive. That can be good because it might be exactly what I want to create sometimes. Doesn't mean I want to hear their exact thoughts about the matter at the time. And when they have a day when they are thinking about nothing in particular or just random thoughts about people or things I have no interest in? Ummmmmmmmmm...no.

The same holds true for me. I don't want someone being able to discern everything I am thinking. For one thing...though it is not often talked about here...I, like many dominants, sometimes like to keep a submissive a bit off-balance. In a good way, in a way that enhances the relationship, but off-balance. If she were able to pick up on my every thought, how effective could this technique be? It wouldn't.

Finally...I believe in communication. I believe that partners, be they D/s or vanilla, need to share with each other. I also think that people, as human beings who are ultimately their own person, have a right to be able to keep some things private. In a relationship...knowing EVERYTHING there is to know about a partner, including what their next move is going to be always, could soon result in boredom, in MOO.

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 7:56:05 AM

agirl

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Simply because the *truth* isn't always necessary. Sometimes it's *how much truth* at any given time and sometimes taking people's sensitivities and situation into account makes a difference. Sometimes you have to weigh up whether they are ACTUALLY asking for the pure, unadulterated truth or a lesser, slightly modified version of it.

Being *truthful* can also be incredibly selfish.

agirl

< Message edited by agirl -- 10/17/2006 7:59:42 AM >

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 8:00:19 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
Simply because the *truth* isn't always necessary. Sometimes it's *how much truth* at any given time and sometimes taking people's sensitivities and situation into account makes a difference. Sometimes you have to weigh up whether they are ACTUALLY asking for the pure, unadulterated truth or a lesser, slightly modified version of it.

agirl

That's the thing- with my friends and myself, we don't weigh up.

Now, my friends and I WILL occasionally say things like "We don't have to talk about this if you don't want to go there" or "You might not like hearing this, so tell me now if you want to go there" or "I'm not sure how to say this without hurting your feelings, so I can keep my mouth shut if you want"

But we're all steadfast in knowing if it IS said- it IS the truth. And that is a main reason we love and respect eachother as we do. And I know for us, we'd never want anything different. Again, I do not understand choosing to form a relationship with someone as a friend and having it any other way.

And again, I do not have many friends at all, this might be why if most people don't want the system I need for myself or accept their friends not being honest as I am with mine.

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 8:38:46 AM

MasterFireMaam

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While the notion is intriguing, in the end, I conclude that we are islands for a reason. If we were meant to have hive mentality, we would. So, no, I wouldn't want a transparency button installed. Think of how frustrating it would be if someone saw in you what you do not see, or want to see, in yourself.

Master Fire

< Message edited by MasterFireMaam -- 10/17/2006 8:39:01 AM >

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 8:43:36 AM

sublizzie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
Think of how frustrating it would be if someone saw in you what you do not see, or want to see, in yourself.

Master Fire

I think the person we have the most difficulty being honest with is ourselves. Maybe if we could figure ourselves out completely a transparency button would be a good idea. But I don't know anyone who knows all parts of themselves completely and honestly.

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 8:50:19 AM

juliaoceania

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quote:

I really like TwiceHappy's idea of waking up and people not being able to lie anymore. I think the world would be such a better place. Plus no more wondering if what others are saying is the truth and then the whole process of figuring it out, because lets face it folks people lie. No more waiting to discover if they are what they say they are, if they're as honest as they say they are, or if they're lying manipulative little jerks that one needs to steer clear from.

I think of dealing with other people as a learning process. Other people can be mean spirited, cruel, petty, and they can be manipulative. Lying can be a reflection of these things, or it can be perceived by the liar as a kindness. Personally speaking I want to learn about life the way it really exists, it is part of my spiritual development. Anyways, this device would not stop the lies people tell themselves about themselves... possible the most damaging lie of all.

I also think that some of my most treasured moments are the ones I spend with my private thoughts.

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 8:51:13 AM

sophia37

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I think the reason we dont have access to peoples thoughts is the same reason we cant know the moment of our deaths.

We're all better off not knowing every little thing. If we did we'd become entirely different people. We'd be spemding our time trying to outsmart death, or being at odds with our family for their "incorrect" thoughts.

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 8:52:13 AM

MasterFireMaam

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sublizzie

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
Think of how frustrating it would be if someone saw in you what you do not see, or want to see, in yourself.

Master Fire

I think the person we have the most difficulty being honest with is ourselves. Maybe if we could figure ourselves out completely a transparency button would be a good idea. But I don't know anyone who knows all parts of themselves completely and honestly.

There are those who would argue that knowing ourselves completely would lead to insanity. I'm not totally sure that I agree, but I do conceed that there are hidden motives that cause us to behave in certain ways. I've read that we have 3 parts: the inner child (gut level, primarl reaction), the robot (cold, calculating reaction) and the higher self (enlightened reaction) Working to allow more and more of the higher self to be exposed and operate in our lives, instead of the child or robot, is the goal. New Agers call this "increasing the frequency of our vibration".

Master Fire

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 8:55:37 AM

LaTigresse

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Oh good grief, nobody wants to know everything that goes on in my head.....NOBODY! I even scare myself sometimes, imagine what it would do to all the innocents!

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 8:56:25 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sophia37
I think the reason we dont have access to peoples thoughts is the same reason we cant know the moment of our deaths.

We're all better off not knowing every little thing. If we did we'd become entirely different people. We'd be spemding our time trying to outsmart death, or being at odds with our family for their "incorrect" thoughts.

Not necessarily.

For me, knowing my moment of death brings me peace, solace and understanding. In fact it allowed me to STOP obsessing and worrying about it.

And I simply let go of the idea of trying to convince others of who I am when it comes to long term personal relationships. While knowing some things about people might be difficult and not necessarily things we WISH to know, they do not necessarily have to be a negative thing or control our lives.

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 8:58:44 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
There are those who would argue that knowing ourselves completely would lead to insanity. I'm not totally sure that I agree, but I do conceed that there are hidden motives that cause us to behave in certain ways. I've read that we have 3 parts: the inner child (gut level, primarl reaction), the robot (cold, calculating reaction) and the higher self (enlightened reaction) Working to allow more and more of the higher self to be exposed and operate in our lives, instead of the child or robot, is the goal. New Agers call this "increasing the frequency of our vibration".

Master Fire

Wow, talk about a mishmash of Freud and new age.

Or we could go with the whole duality system- female and male. Or the karmic system.

Or any number of "self structures" on how to deal with our selves and balancing within the larger world.

For me, going with the Freudian system, the child and robot is as much ME as the higher part. To deny any of them would be to deny who I am. For me, the structure is to balance and become ME as much as I can.

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RE: Transparency button? - 10/17/2006 9:18:38 AM

HollyS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

W/we do talk a lot about transparency. Many big D's say anything an s-type keeps inside is disallowing them valuable information needed to steer the relationship and so on.

*smile* Yes, many say that. Others don't... but that's a whole other thread.

quote:

But.. if Y/you could install a transparency button and read the minds of Y/your partner, would Y/you?

Truly no, but not for any reasons of self-preservation (though I admit, the thought of hearing every negative thought that came into Sir's head about me would likely make me insane). Rather I want whatever he tells me to be freely given, not coerced or "taken." I know I'm speaking from the sub perspective, but the concept is, to me, the same no matter what your orientation. Submission can be exacted from me (i.e. "Tell me what you're thinking or....") but to my mind, the relationship is stronger when something difficult is freely offered. If he's not ready or willing to tell me something, then I can be patient enough to wait until the time when/if he is ready. If never, then that's his business. If the information is important to the relationship, I have faith that chances to discuss whatever it is will come up over and over again. I can wait.

Patience - both with ourselves and our other - is one of the most important things we can offer.

~Holly

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