RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS!

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popeye1250 -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/18/2006 7:56:41 PM)
Misto, did you read the article highlighted in the origional post?

mistoferin -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/18/2006 8:12:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Misto, did you read the article highlighted in the origional post? Yup I did. quote: The United States plans to take in about 10,000 Burundian refugees -- many of whom fled their landlocked Central African nation as far back as 1972 -- from Tanzania, the U.S. State Department said on Tuesday. State Department spokesman Tom Casey told reporters, saying an estimated 10,000 people would be offered residence. Casey said the United States agreed to taken in the refugees at the request of the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees. Maybe I'm missing it....but it looks like they aren't "sneaking in" to me.

popeye1250 -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/18/2006 8:34:35 PM)
The article said they were unwilling to be resettled back in Burundi. So somehow that becomes our problem? As a Taxpayer I am "unwilling" to pay for all these people's "needs". Hey, maybe the State Dept will resettle them in Michigan, all kinds of high paying jobs there, right? I have no problem with legal immigrants it's just the absolute numbers of them that are being let in. There were 3 million illegal aliens who snuck in last year and they said on the news that we let more legal immigrants in than illegals so that's what, 4-6 million legal immigrants per year? I wouldn't have a problem with a reasonable number like 50 thousand immigrants per year. What we're doing now is madness. And most of the legal immigrants don't have medical insurance like a lot of Americans don't so guess who's paying for all this stuff??? There are social workers who will graduate college next year who will make entire careers tending to those Burundis and guess who will pay for them and their benefits packages? The problem is that the U.S. Taxpayers don't have (ANY) advocates in Washington, D.C.

mistoferin -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/18/2006 8:48:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 The article said they were unwilling to be resettled back in Burundi. Well "unwilling" isn't illegal. I'd also have to think that ALL immigrants are here because they are "unwilling" to stay or go back to where their from. I'd think that if they were "willing" to do those things they most likely wouldn't be here.

meatcleaver -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/18/2006 11:13:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 There are social workers who will graduate college next year who will make entire careers tending to those Burundis and guess who will pay for them and their benefits packages? I have to agree with you here popeye. Social workers are expensive and it is questionable that they do any good beyond handwringing and feeling superior because they dedicate their working careers to putting bandaids on social problems. Meanwhile they tend to be overpaid, get too many perks and do little productive work. It would be cheaper to get rid of them and redirect the money saved into dealing directly with social problems. However, social work is a way of stopping educated unproductive people who are incapable of doing a proper day's work from becoming political delinquents.

nefertari -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/18/2006 11:54:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 There are social workers who will graduate college next year who will make entire careers tending to those Burundis and guess who will pay for them and their benefits packages? I have to agree with you here popeye. Social workers are expensive and it is questionable that they do any good beyond handwringing and feeling superior because they dedicate their working careers to putting bandaids on social problems. Meanwhile they tend to be overpaid, get too many perks and do little productive work. It would be cheaper to get rid of them and redirect the money saved into dealing directly with social problems. However, social work is a way of stopping educated unproductive people who are incapable of doing a proper day's work from becoming political delinquents. Social workers overpaid? You've got to be kidding me. Not in this country. Not even close. A friend of mine is a social worker for a government agency. She has a masters degree in social work which is, credit hour wise, close to what a doctorate would be in other areas (because of the additional legal classes required). She makes $13.00/hour. It's pretty well known around here that social workers - even those in private practice - don't go into it for the money.

nefertari -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/18/2006 11:57:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet As long as they learn and now how to speak english, it's all good. Sometimes though, I think people imigrate to the U.S. because they're to lazy to fix the problems in there own country. There are so many things wrong with this, I don't even know where to start. For the sake of brevity - and my somewhat short attention span - I'll just say that not everyone has the option of fixing things in their country in the manner we do.

meatcleaver -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 1:58:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nefertari quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver I have to agree with you here popeye. Social workers are expensive and it is questionable that they do any good beyond handwringing and feeling superior because they dedicate their working careers to putting bandaids on social problems. Meanwhile they tend to be overpaid, get too many perks and do little productive work. It would be cheaper to get rid of them and redirect the money saved into dealing directly with social problems. However, social work is a way of stopping educated unproductive people who are incapable of doing a proper day's work from becoming political delinquents. Social workers overpaid? You've got to be kidding me. Not in this country. Not even close. A friend of mine is a social worker for a government agency. She has a masters degree in social work which is, credit hour wise, close to what a doctorate would be in other areas (because of the additional legal classes required). She makes $13.00/hour. It's pretty well known around here that social workers - even those in private practice - don't go into it for the money. That is still more than twice the minimum wage for a job that is largely surplus to requirements and does little positive. As for qualifications they are largely irrelevent for the job that needs doing as far as I can see. Most people who have the misfortune of having their lives interfered with by these do gooders, really need practical help not their brow wiped by politically correct busy-bodies. I've worked along side social workers for years and had relationships with a couple and I'm signally unimpressed with what they do. It all seems pointless to me and could be done by an unskilled person with a practical approach to life. I've got two degrees, a masters and speak four languages but it doesn't mean I deserve a woos of a job paid for by the tax payer and social workers who work for private clinics credited by the state, are also taking their wage out of the tax payers pocket. The sixties has a lot to answer for with its expontential growth in sociology and social work degrees.

nikkicd10 -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 7:57:12 AM)
Well lets set the record straight. Most Americans have no problem with LEGAL immigrants, the problem is that our President, yes the jerk Bush is using legal immgratation as a way to allow millions of illegals into this country to suuort his corp. funding. As for social workers making a ton of money, I have MSW and last year I earned$23,500 a year tell me 1 other career that makes so little with a masters?? I left social work, I can make more at MickyD's

Arpig -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 8:14:25 AM)
quote: I can't understand why they killed the native americans instead of peacefully sharing the land with them. Maybe because the native americans didn't want to hand over their land to the new immigrants???

justheather -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 8:16:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig quote: I can't understand why they killed the native americans instead of peacefully sharing the land with them. Maybe because the native americans didn't want to hand over their land to the new immigrants??? But, the people on the Mayflower were white. What part of that did those darned natives not understand?

Arpig -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 8:31:02 AM)
quote: My ancestors traveled to America on the Mayflower And this makes you better how? One group of my ancestors also came over on the Mayflower (John Howland), one of my ancestors was a member of the Constitutional Convention, and often acted as the chairman and signed the Constitution. Surely that makes me more American than all the people who's ancestors didn't . You are blaming immigrants for your inability to find a lucrative job....hmmmm.....replace the word "immigrants" with the word "jews"....ring a bell anybody....just a whiff of the old beerhall in the air perhaps?

philosophy -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 8:47:28 AM)
"just a whiff of the old beerhall in the air perhaps?" ...to be fair Arpig, it's probably not the beerhall you can smell, but the scent of Fox news or similar...........

meatcleaver -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 8:52:37 AM)
This thread appears to be getting anti-immigrant reactions from all the same people that are against illegal immigrants, yet these immigrants will be legal. One senses its any immigrant who isn't white that is the real problem for these people.

philosophy -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 8:57:12 AM)
"Most people who have the misfortune of having their lives interfered with by these do gooders, really need practical help not their brow wiped by politically correct busy-bodies." ...i too have worked alongside social workers from time to time over the years......and i have to say MC i couldn't disagree with you more. Your claim that they are overpaid is a joke, social services are universally underfunded. The work they do is thankless, difficult and fraught with moral dilemmas. The sort of decision that you and i hope to only have to make once or twice in a lifetime is the sort of decision they have to make daily......and if they get it wrong, people suffer. If they get it right, no-one notices. Social workers deal with the sort of problems that most people don't even want to have to think about.......attitudes such as the one you apparently hold, merely make their necessary job harder.

juliaoceania -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 9:09:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver This thread appears to be getting anti-immigrant reactions from all the same people that are against illegal immigrants, yet these immigrants will be legal. One senses its any immigrant who isn't white that is the real problem for these people. Bingo! It is not the legality or the language of the immigrant.. it is that pesky skin color problem

ownedgirlie -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 9:10:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl What doesn't the government understand about Americans losing their jobs to these immigrants and why won't they do something? Maybe you should check out the Walmart thread and see where our jobs are actually going. Unless of course you wish to be a crop picker, a bell man, or a bus person? These people are refugees, coming here legally. There is nothing wrong with the appropriate use of our system. Unless of course you would prefer our government to totally fund their nation so they do not have to come here? My mother is an immigrant. I am first generation American. She proudly became a US citizen and made her life here, and raised her children here to be healthy, contributing members of society. In fact, I believe she respects her citizenship more than many who were actually born here, because of what it represents to her. She knows what it is to be dirt poor and suffer greatly. My uncle is also an immigrant. He came from the same dirt poor family as my mother. He arrived and insisted on making the most of what America offered. He started out at McDonalds and when they wanted to put him in the kitchen because he didn't speak English, he insisted on working the counter - how else could he learn our language? He learned he could earn a few bucks by painting our neighbor's homes on the side. Fast forward 20 years, he has his own painting company, contracted by major developers to paint new communities. He owns 5 homes, and has raised two wonderful daughters who are healthy, contributing members of society. I ask you, whose job did he take? A very dear friend of our family is a refugee from Syria. He arrived here about 30 years ago and worked as a bus boy, learned English and became a bar tender. Borrowed money from my parents, and went to school. Is now the Director of Engineering for an International firm, married and raising two very intelligent sons. Whose job did he take? Just for added fun, another dear family friend is from Argentina. He started as a bus boy also. Ended up owning 3 rather nice restaurants. In fact, he hosted my wedding at his wonderful Italian dinner house in Palo Alto. His daughter is a chef in New York, his other a well sought after hair dresser. Whose job did he take? There is a difference between legal and illegal immigration. If it is illegal immigration you are speaking of, you may wish to clarify it. We had a really interesting thread on that a few months back; you may want to do a search and check it out.

Kaledorus -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 9:11:10 AM)
quote: defiantbadgirl quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Wonderful, more immigrants. I wonder how many Americans will lose their jobs to these immigrants. Pretty soon there will be 2000 people competing for 1 job instead of 500 like it is now. And I thought it couldn't get any worse grrr As for immigration I think it's time that we take a good long break on it , say 20 years. This country is just getting too crowded. As for letting in 10,000 refugees in from Burundi did the American People have a say in this or was this the sole decision of the State Dept? They did the same thing with thousands of Somalians years ago who they settled in some towns in Maine and property values plummetted and taxes went sky high. (Thankyou Bill Clinton) And from the looks of those people in the picture in the article the Taxpayers will be paying for their housing, medical care, dental care (which will be extensive) foodstamps, education, interpreters, language classes, clothing, eyeglasses, medications, job training, and of course legal work and social workers galore for years and years! And probably to the tune of Billions of dollars. This is just another reason that I want my country out of the "U.N." Their "refugee" programs that of course the U.S. has to "participate" in. When the Irish, Poles, Italians, Germans came over there were no welfare programs. Welfare in those days was , "you don't work, you don't eat." And the U. S. Taxpayers get screwed yet again! Thankyou George Bush defiantbadgirl had mentioned IT for instance. There has been an influx of Indian and other ITs which have replaced American workers in that field. When the lobbyists and special interest groups changed America's immigration laws in 1965 at no time were the American people consulted. Americans are distracted with trying to earn a living and entertainment meanwhile our country slips ever further away from us. Some folks like that. Some work to make it go faster in that direction. The Sierra Club used to really be concerned about all this legal immigration, the original statement, "bring about the stabilization of the population first of the United States and then of the world." was changed in 1996 due to pressure, the main financier of the Sierra Club told them flat out that if they ever took an anti-immgration stance his mega millions in contributions would dry up, so what did Sierra Club do? They folded, they sold the environment down the river for money. I have read numerous news accounts of the degradation of critically endangered wilderness by immigrants. You mentioned the Somali-Bantu refugees, these refugees are in ADDITION to the legal immigration and their chain immigration whereby once they become citizens their families come in then THEIR families come in and on and on and on. USATODAY- After 3 years, Somalis struggle to adjust to U.S. The US Census projected, in 2000, that America will have one billion residents by end of this century. By countries of origin, America will be a Third World nation. I think the next couple of decades will be decisive and it doesn't look good, I am sure there are many on this thread who will cheer that result. Be careful what you wish for...

Arpig -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 9:14:49 AM)
[:D] point taken

meatcleaver -> RE: WELCOME NEW AMERICANS! (10/19/2006 9:33:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy Your claim that they are overpaid is a joke, social services are universally underfunded. The work they do is thankless, difficult and fraught with moral dilemmas. Just looked up job advertisements in London. There are jobs going for social workers for 32,000 pounds per annum plus car and expenses for a 35 hour week. I worked along side social workers in the 90s who were earning 26,000 pounds per annum plus car and expenses for a 35 hour week with an average of 7 weeks holiday (depends on length of service). I was support staff and earned 22,500 pounds per annum for a 40 hour week with car and expenses and four weeks holiday per year. A government audit at that time into social work practice found many cases of social workers having a case load of forty clients but once you took out the dead, those that had left the country or just moved and were lost touch with or were inactive for some other reason, many social workers were dealing with about 10-15 clients and seeing them for no more than one hour per month. There were a couple of social workers in London found to have active case loads as low as four! Camden social services went on strike in the 90s and their clients didn't even know they were on strike such was the impact of social workers on their lives. It was this sort of thing that led to cut backs and reorganisation.

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