Love. Actually?

Love. Actually? (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 2:39:14 AM)
These boards have been too quiet, too long! I propose, that there is no such thing as love. I propose that what love is, is merely attachment to the benefits one derives from another person in return for a price, in terms of the benefits the other derives from you, you are willing to pay. As such it is a commercial contract. Variation of the price you pay and variation of the benefits you derive under this contract, is what brings about a breakup because of the breach of contract involved. Such breaches may include changing in appearance (getting fat, looking old, disfigurement etc), changes to the sexual side of the contract (failure to perform, revelation of some sort of kink etc), changes to the monetary side (losing a job, inadvisable investment, wasting money etc), failure to meet material expectations (new house, new car, new furniture etc), and so on. I contest that if love were actual, then it would be the person with whom one was in love, however observation shows this not to be the case, since changes in expected benefits from the person seem to be the primary causes of break up. Were love real, then the benefits would not matter. Discuss E

darchChylde -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 2:42:16 AM)
not that i agree, and i really hope you're playing the devil's advocate; but i'm saddened to admit that your post makes alot of sense

LadyEllen -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 2:51:41 AM)
darch - I really want to be proved wrong, believe me! E

darchChylde -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 3:18:27 AM)
i hope you will be hugs

Level -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 3:50:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen darch - I really want to be proved wrong, believe me! E Ellen, you're wrong. Well, what you said does happen, quite a bit, but not always. I know it for a fact.....

Quivver -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 4:23:02 AM)
Naw, there is such a thing as ~Love~, but it cant survive without Belief.

Aileen68 -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 4:33:46 AM)
Q...no more profile?

Fitznicely -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 5:36:04 AM)
Not everyone is obsessed with material crap. I hope you find someone decent. I did, then I collared her :)

twicehappy -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 5:37:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Such breaches may include changing in appearance (getting fat, looking old, disfigurement etc), changes to the sexual side of the contract (failure to perform, revelation of some sort of kink etc), changes to the monetary side (losing a job, inadvisable investment, wasting money etc), failure to meet material expectations (new house, new car, new furniture etc), and so on. I contest that if love were actual, then it would be the person with whom one was in love, LadyE, you are wrong. When my previous Master and I got together, he worked, though I worked two jobs and made more than he. I owned a huge farm all paid for on my own. There was a 31 year difference in our ages so….hmmm….great looking he was not. He actually resembled Satan with grey hair and a bad attitude on a Harley. But I found him beautiful. He was severely bi polar. During the course of our relationship there were times when he did not work for 3 months, 6 months, 2 years. There was a period of over 2 ½ years when he did not function sexually due to his medications. I bear a few scars including one on my left boob where once when he was so high ended he did not know who I was and thought my fireplace poker was sword so he stabbed me with it. Then there were those weeks I spent days straight sitting by his hospital bed taking care of him. He wanted a child to give his name to and call his own both for himself and his parents but did not want to pass on his disease laden genes on to any child so we had a close friend agree to impregnate me for him. To say that I only cared for his appearance, his sexual ability, the money he made, what he owned or the fact that he was the natural father of my children would be to classify me as a blind idiot who never learned to count past three. What I loved was the raw spirit of the man; the gentle bleeding heart in that evil shell, the genius contained in his mind, the freedom that blew through his entire being when he kicked that old panhead and took off. The quiet calm care he showed our children, the love he gave them as he took both mine and the one I conceived for him as his own. The proud smiles on his face as we greeted each new grandchild. The way he snuck out every Thanksgiving morning telling me he wanted the sale ads from the paper so he could buy me a bunch of fresh flowers for my table. The fact that every Christmas he carefully checked to see how many pot holders and wooden spoons I set on fire the year before and replaced them. The way heart in his throat he came to almost every race and cheered me own when what he really wanted was for me to get off the damn bikes and be safe. What did he have or give me that was material that I did not already have or could not get for myself? Did I walk away as he steadily got older and slower and his hair got thinner? When he was unable to perform did I go find somebody who could? When his brain did not function did I have him locked up and go home and do my own thing until he was normal again? When he did not want to give me a child of his body did I leave? You tell me what I loved. I now have two I love the in same way, for the same reasons, for the people they are inside. Love is real, it is out there, it is up to the individual to find it, to keep it safe through the storms of life, if you've ever had it you know, because you have it still. Separation, change, not even death itself stops that kind of love.

Kalira -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 5:39:41 AM)
Love is a word, used to describe nothing more than a feeling of emotion that is so strong, that it can dictate some of our actions in life. I love my daughter. The feeling that I get when I think of her is so strong that it colors everything else. I would lay myself in front of a train to keep her from harm. I loved her father. Just looking at him was enough to cause my knees to go weak, and my stomach to drop. The love I felt for him was so strong that it carried me through 2 years of cancer with him. I love my brother and sister. I would stand by their side in defense, no questions asked. I love those whom I would call friend. Their loyalty to me is never questioned; my loyalty to them is always present. Different levels of feeling for each, but at the same time, I would lay my life down for any one of these in a heartbeat, no questions asked. All because of a simple little word called love.

LaTigresse -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 5:41:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen These boards have been too quiet, too long! I propose, that there is no such thing as love. I propose that what love is, is merely attachment to the benefits one derives from another person in return for a price, in terms of the benefits the other derives from you, you are willing to pay. As such it is a commercial contract. Variation of the price you pay and variation of the benefits you derive under this contract, is what brings about a breakup because of the breach of contract involved. Such breaches may include changing in appearance (getting fat, looking old, disfigurement etc), changes to the sexual side of the contract (failure to perform, revelation of some sort of kink etc), changes to the monetary side (losing a job, inadvisable investment, wasting money etc), failure to meet material expectations (new house, new car, new furniture etc), and so on. I contest that if love were actual, then it would be the person with whom one was in love, however observation shows this not to be the case, since changes in expected benefits from the person seem to be the primary causes of break up. Were love real, then the benefits would not matter. Discuss E Although I see far too much evidence that your statements are correct in many situations...... I can say that yes, you are wrong. There are many people in my life that I love and the fact that I love them holds no benefit other than knowing and loving them. Some of them are not even the greatest human beings. A few of them I cannot even spend much time with because they are so difficult. However, I do still love them.

caitlyn -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 6:41:46 AM)
"I love you", is what guys say, right before they say, a) "and I don't understand why you won't swallow", b) "so much that I want to have sex with you.", c) "but I think it's time to see other people, like your best friend for instance." [;)]

LadyEllen -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 7:21:29 AM)
Thanks all. I'm happy to have heard so many examples of real love. What I conclude is, that I loved, but was never loved back. No wonder I'm so cynical. E

lauren0221 -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 7:26:08 AM)
This is a good question, and comes down to the definition of love, IMHO. I've seen the guys on Jerry Springer who stopped "loving" their spouse because they gained weight, or the women who will be happy to have sex with their husband when he starts making more money. In my book, that ain't love. Love is not based on physical appearance, financial situation, change in goals. My idea of real love is a soul connection that can survive all of that just fine

subjected2006 -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 7:56:46 AM)
okay..good topic to start a wet dreary sunday with.. I am not really sure so much about the definition of love here..but I know relationships.. and it's a cold hard fact that who ever loves the less is the one who controls the relationship. so ..every time we love someone we are sticking our necks out..just like turtles.. and we know tirtles dont get anywhere with out sticking their necks out.. so it stands to reason..that the braver we are..the deeper we love.. and now I need some pepto.. just sayin'

Kalira -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 8:08:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Thanks all. I'm happy to have heard so many examples of real love. What I conclude is, that I loved, but was never loved back. No wonder I'm so cynical. E LadyEllen. Perhaps you WERE loved back. Perhaps it just did not fit what you perceived as love, so you believe that you were not loved back? My late husband NEVER told me he loved me; not once in 10 years. At first, it almost destroyed my feelings for him until I realized that it really is JUST a word that conveys a depth of feeling for certain actions.

krista -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 8:15:12 AM)
Greeting lauren Ah...but therein lies the problem....A great number of the people i meet are about one step away from being on the Jerry Springer show...!!!...Colour me disgusted... regards krista joy through service

Kalira -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 8:17:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: krista Greeting lauren Ah...but therein lies the problem....A great number of the people i meet are about one step away from being on the Jerry Springer show...!!!...Colour me disgusted... regards krista joy through service LOL They do make for interesting comparison's though, don't they?

juliaoceania -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 8:19:43 AM)
quote: I contest that if love were actual, then it would be the person with whom one was in love, however observation shows this not to be the case, since changes in expected benefits from the person seem to be the primary causes of break up. Were love real, then the benefits would not matter. I want to grow old with someone, and aging isn't pretty, so while there is a benefit (someone to grow old with), it is not contingent upon appearance. There are a lot of people that care for a sick mate for years... sometimes their mate does not even know who they are... yes love is real, but increasingly fleeting perhaps.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Love. Actually? (10/22/2006 8:19:45 AM)
Love compares to the concept of life on other planets. The skeptic will not believe in it unless/until it's discovered and the story is on the cover of the NY Times instead of the National Enquirer. You see, you don't even believe any other source telling you it exists. Stories of being abducted by a UFO, seeing strange objects in the sky; is the product of a warped perspective. Treated the same way as the story your friend or associate relates about the "love of his life" he/she met in Cabo. I feel more comfortable as a member of the skeptical crowd. If I chose to be nice, I'd nod and smile at the story of love. More likely I'd mock it, and point to the love being the result of a $500/night room, no work, and no replicants scurrying around. The reality of Monday morning would come soon enough; Work, bills, a replicant requiring attention…in other words life. The skeptic sees life as the reason love isn't possible. A skeptic says you can love or you can live in reality. The two don't exist in the same universe. Like UFO's they can't exist because logic says the power needed for planetary travel isn't possible. Time and distance can not be reconciled. Then one night driving down a dark canyon in CA, you see that bright light in the sky. It hovers, lands, and a few entities dressed in coordinating uniforms walk about. I am now a believer. When I tell you the story Lady Ellen, would you believe it? I doubt it, what could I tell you, or show you to "prove" it exists? Nothing, because before I saw what I saw I wouldn't believe you either. Until I experienced love, I'd take the contrary position in any debate. Ironically, to win any debate, I'd still much rather be on the contrary side. No love is much easier to argue. It's the easy argument because no words, no visual, can be used to confirm its existence. Mostly words and visuals prove it doesn't. It becomes a matter of choice. If love is not in your life, you can have a very good life without it. I sure did. I enjoyed myself and didn't think I wanted or needed anything else. I still don't believe those that say without love your life is empty. Life can be very full, enjoyable, and satisfying without love. Love is out there. It isn't defined, isn't a visual, and is contrary to the laws of time and distance as well as logic. Before you give up on yourself, do you look up on a dark night looking for strange bright lights? Personally, I'm very glad my journey took me on a dark canyon road in Santa Maria. I'm glad I looked up. I'm glad I believed what I saw. But if you ask me for pragmatic proof, I'd rather agree with you. Unless of course, you want to journey to Palos Verdes. Then we would welcome you into the ‘spaceship’ and you can observe it first hand and define it in words for yourself.

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