RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax?

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Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/31/2006 7:28:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne can anyone tell me what would take a human body body and convert it to bone fragments that are less than a centimeter and toss them onto the buildings across the street? The concrete floors crumbled - presumably due to the explosives on each floor. So we have a lot of pulverized concrete falling down. It must have been like a meat grinder. That is why only small pieces of debris were found: everything was cut into little pieces by the concrete. It stripped the flesh from the bones. Bones are actually very light and just like the millions of pieces of paper they were thrown out by the compressed and heated air in the collapsing building. Those pieces of bones, therefore, may not be considered as evidence of the use of explosives. As for the molten metal in the basement: when you hit a piece of metal with a hammer, at the spot hit by the hammer the metal will heat up. In the collapsing towers we have enormously heavy hammers that must have packed quite a wallop. I can imagine that a blow by a hammer the mass of one of the towers will melt metal. There have been filmed beams with glowing and smoking ends falling down, but I do not know whether these small amounts of hot metal would be sufficient to explain the quantity of molten metal in the basement. Nor am I aware of any estimates or calculations concerning these phenomena. Thus the pools of molten metal in the basement are not necessarily evidence of the use of explosives either. Nevertheless I remain convinced that the buildings collapsed due to controlled demolition.

Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/31/2006 7:47:10 PM)
First started, note the bright yellow (HOT) fire compared to the cabling (COLD) fire on the left: http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/MoltenMetalWTCThermitefromzoomedvid.jpg can see its dripping off of something: http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/MoltenMetalWTCThermitefromzoomed-1.jpg Can see its coming from what appears to be a ceiling: http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/MoltenMetalWTCThermitefromzoomed-2.jpg The blue line is where the floors are bolted to the columns: http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/MoltenMetalWTCThermitefromzoomed-4.jpg Now its the same temperature as as the plastic fire on the left as it has burned out and began to cool: http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/MoltenMetalWTCThermitefromzoomed-3.jpg Coincidentally the building collapsed coincidentally about (guessing) 7 seconds later. coincidentally. Ron that would be one hell of a lot of glass to have in a nearly a cube shape to pour out that long and all come from the same spot... windows stand up and that should have burned down if that were the case. yet it is all concentrated on the ceiling just about where the next floor mount would be. For those who do not know the windsor is the same design as wtc but not nearly as robust and strong. the windsor: http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/winsortower.jpg The windsor vs wtc: http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/winsortower004.jpg windsor after burning 20 hours!!!!: http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/windsor.jpg

Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/31/2006 8:03:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Yes the first link is like one I have seen, but this one is a box core, and not the H beam I saw and that has absolutely been torch or plasma cut and not thermite cut Ron anyone know the company who did the emoval? its time for a phone call LOL

mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/31/2006 8:06:40 PM)
I have to get up early, but I want to concentrate on d-4 image for a while and I suggest you might want to as well, note the elongation of the molten fireball, the vaporous substance floating down beneath it (down mind you....almost a spray as in liquid, not smoke) offhand if that was metal (and I agree it is near the roof or floor) in any regard the sandwich between...........and I am definitely convinced that ain't glass, but offhand if that was metal it should have been pear shaped as it dropped, and looks like in the earlier pictures as if it was some type of explosion (inconsistant with thermite only).......I am unsure what the fuck that is........but it is of interest.............greater than orange peel orange and brilliant yellow which is just before white hot........yep, that fuckin' thing ain't 212 degrees................below the fires already burning........but I don't see a gaping hole, even say-- 1/10 the size of the plane, and it appears localized to that area, so why would that little thing bring down the building when the gnat of an airplane couldn't, unless they popped all over and that should have been on tape somewhere, but it would be unnecessary to strike the outer exoskeleton, when you can do the damage to the core..........the building fell in , not out........ the coincidence, coincidence statement is clever, but too strong at this point, in my mind. I need to consider it further.......do you have a movie clip of that part in a site? Need to analyze it more........ Thanks Real Interesting, Ron

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/31/2006 8:15:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne First started, note the bright yellow (HOT) fire compared to the cabling (COLD) fire on the left: can see its dripping off of something: Can see its coming from what appears to be a ceiling: Now its the same temperature as as the plastic fire on the left as it has burned out and began to cool: Coincidentally the building collapsed about (guessing) 7 seconds later. Ron that would be one hell of a lot of glass to have in a nearly a cube shape to pour out that long and all come from the same spot... windows stand up and that should have burned down if that were the case. yet it is all concentrated on the ceiling just about where the next floor mount would be. I admit that is curious and that it is indicative of an explosive that went of - or igniting and burning - prematurely. As for melting glass: what I understand from fire is that the glass does not melt, but shatters and is blown out. On the other hand, I can well imagine that if the fire is truly very hot and localized, that nearby glass will melt instead of shatter. I have googled: Glass "melts at 2600-2900 °F (1425-1600 °C) depending on its composition". I have also googled: "Thermite/thermate burns well over 1000C more than steel's melting temperature". And: "Steel melts at around 1370 °C". I have also googled: "Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). " So jet fuel cannot have molten mnottertail's glass, but thermate most certainly will. If there is molten glass, then most certainly there also will be molten steel.

Sinergy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/31/2006 8:24:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve You might be. Personally...i think its ignorant to dismiss anomolies in the 9-11 story just because you really want to believe that "Them thar towelheads done it!". Good thing I dont really want to believe that. Sinergy

Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/31/2006 8:43:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I have to get up early, but I want to concentrate on d-4 image for a while and I suggest you might want to as well, note the elongation of the molten fireball, the vaporous substance floating down beneath it (down mind you....almost a spray as in liquid, not smoke) offhand if that was metal (and I agree it is near the roof or floor) in any regard the sandwich between...........and I am definitely convinced that ain't glass, but offhand if that was metal it should have been pear shaped as it dropped, and looks like in the earlier pictures as if it was some type of explosion (inconsistant with thermite only).......I am unsure what the fuck that is........but it is of interest.............greater than orange peel orange and brilliant yellow which is just before white hot........yep, that fuckin' thing ain't 212 degrees................below the fires already burning........but I don't see a gaping hole, even say-- 1/10 the size of the plane, and it appears localized to that area, so why would that little thing bring down the building when the gnat of an airplane couldn't, unless they popped all over and that should have been on tape somewhere, but it would be unnecessary to strike the outer exoskeleton, when you can do the damage to the core..........the building fell in , not out........ the coincidence, coincidence statement is clever, but too strong at this point, in my mind. I need to consider it further.......do you have a movie clip of that part in a site? Need to analyze it more........ Thanks Real Interesting, Ron yeh now that one i saved LOL my post 125 i think... Melting Metal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExrVgioIXvk There was no explosion but as you can see it grew in intensity and poured a hell of a lot of material over, way to much to be a glass pane imo and it was localized to only one static point of origin.... it looked almost like a cutting torch and i think you would agree the color is right to melt steel... i took that vid blew it up and then took snaps of it. Ya know it almost looks like something is sagging?? http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/MoltenMetalWTCThermitefromzoomed-5.jpg i found that other pic too: http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/cutsmany.jpg oh that by itself imo could not have... My best speculation was that was not to be seen by any one and should have been tucked away out of site... my initial thought was that due to the damage in that area maybe it jarred something loose or????? Another interesting thing and i have not run across it again but it seems to me that people said there were little fires all over the place, even on floors that were not effected by the impact!!! When i run across it again i wil have put it up...

Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/31/2006 9:13:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne First started, note the bright yellow (HOT) fire compared to the cabling (COLD) fire on the left: can see its dripping off of something: Can see its coming from what appears to be a ceiling: Now its the same temperature as as the plastic fire on the left as it has burned out and began to cool: Coincidentally the building collapsed about (guessing) 7 seconds later. Ron that would be one hell of a lot of glass to have in a nearly a cube shape to pour out that long and all come from the same spot... windows stand up and that should have burned down if that were the case. yet it is all concentrated on the ceiling just about where the next floor mount would be. I admit that is curious and that it is indicative of an explosive that went of - or igniting and burning - prematurely. As for melting glass: what I understand from fire is that the glass does not melt, but shatters and is blown out. On the other hand, I can well imagine that if the fire is truly very hot and localized, that nearby glass will melt instead of shatter. I have googled: Glass "melts at 2600-2900 °F (1425-1600 °C) depending on its composition". I have also googled: "Thermite/thermate burns well over 1000C more than steel's melting temperature". And: "Steel melts at around 1370 °C". I have also googled: "Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). " So jet fuel cannot have molten mnottertail's glass, but thermate most certainly will. If there is molten glass, then most certainly there also will be molten steel. Well thats the problem i have is the color of it...and the consistancy of that color... jet fuel nor anything normally in that building should be burning that hot... it takes about 900 degrees to aneal the steels that are found in charts. Now i do not have an exact spec on asmt 119e structural steel but i believe its 100 to 150 degrees hotter for the melting point. Its the aneal point we are concerned with however which if i rembmer right is once we start getting above 900 degrees roughly give or take... maybe 50 degrees hotter for the 119e stuff, guessing... Once steel reaches its anneal point the building would be at risk of collapsing but not before... The question is how long at 800 degrees does the steel have to be in contact with the flames to reach the flame temperature... thats what is key here...

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/31/2006 9:23:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Melting Metal: There was no explosion but as you can see it grew in intensity and poured a hell of a lot of material over, way to much to be a glass pane imo and it was localized to only one static point of origin.... it looked almost like a cutting torch and i think you would agree the color is right to melt steel... Yes, very suspicious. The material must have been accidentally and prematurely ignited by the fire in the corner office on the floor above. I do consider this evidence of foul play. So they applied the explosives against the columns near the ceiling of the offices. Very clever. quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne i took that vid blew it up and then took snaps of it. Ya know it almost looks like something is sagging?? Do not know about the sagging, but clearly the heat of this burning explosive was such that the beam of the perimeter column to the immediate left of it expanded and consequently lower down bent away from the source of the heat, severing it from its base. If it can do that, upon exploding it should have severed the beam that it was applied to. I suspect that a physicist from the volume and heat of the molten material can make a lower estimate of the amount of energy in this single explosive charge.

Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/31/2006 9:48:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Melting Metal: There was no explosion but as you can see it grew in intensity and poured a hell of a lot of material over, way to much to be a glass pane imo and it was localized to only one static point of origin.... it looked almost like a cutting torch and i think you would agree the color is right to melt steel... Yes, very suspicious. The material must have been accidentally and prematurely ignited by the fire in the corner office on the floor above. I do consider this evidence of foul play. So they applied the explosives against the columns near the ceiling of the offices. Very clever. the ceiling of one level is the floor of the next level... they just use a nice looking drop ceiling for the ceiling people see to cover up the structure...then above that is the actual floor and floor mounts for the next level... very easy to get at to rig... actually wiring things in those buildings can be done very quicly because access is so nice...

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/1/2006 7:16:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Its the anneal point we are concerned with Once steel reaches its anneal point the building would be at risk of collapsing but not before... The question is how long at 800 degrees does the steel have to be in contact with the flames to reach the flame temperature... thats what is key here... No, that is not what we are concerned with here. My point was, that we here have a substance that when ignited will melt glass - and therefore will melt steel - and therefore will sever steel when brought to explosion. Thus the anneal point of steel is irrelevant here, as we already have temperatures that are far higher than that. The towers did not collapse because the steel weakened due to fire. That is a false trail. They collapsed because at every floor many of the supporting columns were mined with explosives that severed the columns. The columns failed instantaneously floor by floor and that is impossible if simply the result of the steel weakening due to fire. Besides, unless explosives were used at every floor to sever the supporting columns, those columns should remain standing up whatever the damage done to the buildings. (I suspect those columns would remain standing up - possibly fused together - if an atom bomb had been exploded on the other side of the river.) The question is how many of the supporting columns were mined at each floor. Has anyone counted the squibs per floor on one side of the building? What was the spatial pattern of the squibs on the facade of the building?

ToGiveDivine -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/1/2006 7:19:03 AM)
Fast Reply You all still have NO CLUE - It was the Romulans! The sooner you see this as the truth the sooner that peace and harmony will come back into your life

mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/1/2006 10:29:39 AM)
So I am sneaking this in at work, but to clear a couple things up... the appearance (notice that the portion where that was was abutted out in that corner in an underhang -- a cantilever in the building trades) The time from the appearance of the yellow hot to the earliest visible start of collapse of the building was 1:18 and not 7 seconds......starts stretching the coincidence factor that it was involved. The horseshoe beam bend is horseshit, built that way. the picture I was showed with multiple cores cut off rather reinforces my opinion that they were cut by ironworkers to ease in cleanup as they ran into them, no shape charges, in fact reference is made to that fact in one of the movies. There would have been absolutely no way, given the small rise above the floor joint of the stub left, that anyone could have placed any type of charges there.......one would have easily seen the gaping hole in the sheetrock, insulation galvanized tin studs and fire blanket that one would have had to wade thru to get to those beams. So thats some debunking....... Now, I am still looking at that video of the shit flushing out of that cantilever, that is definately an unusual event. There are a couple other movies on that site I am looking at as well, but they all disagree with thermite as they show explosive qualities, thermite pretty much melts and it is not in your best interest to disperse it before it gets really hot.........it can't gather the steam then, as it were. Ron

CrappyDom -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/1/2006 10:40:17 AM)
People used to melt steel with wood fires, what makes the difference is the amount of oxygen, when if you look at the smoke, the buildings were acting like blast furnaces. I cannot believe people are still discussing this idiotic crap. Bush may have looked the other way and let 9/11 happen but it is the hight of stupidity to think they blew up the building themselves, give me a frigging break, these morons can't do anything right and you want to believe they carried off a conspiracy this big? They can't cover up boy loving butt pirates, they could never have pulled off 9/11 themselves. They didn't have to, Al Queda did their dirty work for them.

Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/1/2006 10:51:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail the picture I was showed with multiple cores cut off rather reinforces my opinion that they were cut by ironworkers to ease in cleanup as they ran into them, no shape charges, in fact reference is made to that fact in one of the movies. So thats some debunking.. Ron huh? not so fast! typical demolition charge placement http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/nine_one_one/cuts004.jpg

Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/1/2006 10:56:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom People used to melt steel with wood fires, what makes the difference is the amount of oxygen, when if you look at the smoke, the buildings were acting like blast furnaces. got a pic? The only fires i saw were barely hot enough to lite a cigarette, do show us the blast furnace you are talking about, or is that just a passing off handed remark? Interesting interview: 9/11 Rescuer Saw Explosions Inside WTC 6 Lobby In an exclusive Killtown interview, Ground Zero EMT Patricia Ondrovic talks about her harrowing day at the WTC on 9/11. Within minutes after the South Tower collapses, she witnessed the WTC 5 blowing up, cars exploding, and explosions inside the lobby of the WTC 6, all the while narrowly escaping with her own life. http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/bradm/911index/WTC.html this just gets more fun by the minute!! it seems that everyone feels that the 100,s approaching thousands of testimonials talking about explosions at 911 are all bullshit and the few assumed experts who were not at the site claim otherwise are correct and the ones to believe. [Mod Note: email address removed]

mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/1/2006 11:00:09 AM)
While I doubt your entire commentary was aimed at me Crappy, I have repeatedly stated that bushandco did alotta misdirection, I have never agreed that means they made it to the dark side on WTC...........normally, I would have passed off this crap, I have tried my best to do a great deal of debunking, I also am not necessarily convinced that AQ did it or any other thing, (barring an internal administration watergate type of thing) but am interested in how the building really came down, and am observing anomolies that should at least get a gloss over before I can say (with my own certainty) that zinging an airplane into the building made for a titanic type catastrophe.............remembering that the titanic was unsinkable.............how can so many people say that building shouldn't have come down like that under those circumstances (and I am not talking about the alcoa fashionistas............) How can it possibly be true????? I don't begrudge you your hobbies, and it is too cold to go fishing right now, the ice isn't thick enough to put out a house, and I goddam sure ain't got a constant line on a good blowjob, so WTF, right? Ron LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/1/2006 11:27:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne huh? not so fast! I agree with the analysis of mnottertail. Those stubs and that horseshoe beam do not mean anything in themselves and most probably the interpretation of mnottertail in regard of them is correct. Those are false trails. Now this very hot substance dripping from the ceiling of an office - due to premature ignition of an explosive - and the beams with white hot and smoking ends falling down during the collapse and the pools of molten metal in the basements after the collapses are another matter entirely. Then also there are the free fall collapses - in footprint - and the conundrum that the core and perimeter skeleton were destroyed as well. Then there are the sequences of detonations and squibs reported by witnesses, the irrelevant and inconsequential fires, and the topdown collapses, and of course the core column of smoke and dust as the buildings collapsed: as if the core was not an obstruction to the dust. quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne is that just a passing off handed remark? I suspect so. Many people are sheep with parroting abilities. The few people like you and mnottertail who are truly interested in the actual truth - whatever its nature - and who can think for themselves are very rare indeed.

Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/1/2006 11:42:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne huh? not so fast! I agree with the analysis of mnottertail. Those stubs and that horseshoe beam do not mean anything in themselves and most probably the interpretation of mnottertail in regard of them is correct. Those are false trails. Now this very hot substance dripping from the ceiling of an office - due to premature ignition of an explosive - and the beams with white hot and smoking ends falling down during the collapse and the pools of molten metal in the basements after the collapses are another matter entirely. Then also there are the free fall collapses - in footprint - and the conundrum that the core and perimeter skeleton were destroyed as well. Then there are the sequences of detonations and squibs reported by witnesses, the irrelevant and inconsequential fires, and the topdown collapses, and of course the core column of smoke and dust as the buildings collapsed: as if the core was not an obstruction to the dust. quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne is that just a passing off handed remark? I suspect so. Many people are sheep with parroting abilities. The few people like you and mnottertail who are truly interested in the actual truth - whatever its nature - and who can think for themselves are very rare indeed. yeh that thermite one xhocked me frankly when i first saw it, but it does explain why the wtc 2 canme down first.... i have no reason not to believe all the reports and recordings of explosions, and of course if there was an explosion it had to come from somewhere... so i dont think its a false trail but just anotherone thown into the wash

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/1/2006 11:59:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne yeh that thermite one xhocked me frankly when i first saw it, but it does explain why the wtc 2 canme down first.... i have no reason not to believe all the reports and recordings of explosions, and of course if there was an explosion it had to come from somewhere... so i dont think its a false trail but just anotherone thown into the wash You are very vague. Was that hot fire in WTC2? I seem to recall that the normal, cool fires in WTC2 were at the point of burning out and that presumably was the reason that WTC2 was demolished first. The hot substance dripping from the ceiling in that one office was due to the premature ignition and burning of one of the explosives. In itself it had nothing to do with the collapse of the tower, as it was anomalous. What made the tower collapse were the hundreds of other explosives that were set off 1.18 minutes later in a sequence of controlled explosions. (It may be, though, that the premature igniting of that one explosive forced the hand of the demolition team and that they saw it and decided to demolish the building before the same happened to another nearby explosive. Can't allow that, as it will raise suspicions, you know? Hope that noone noticed this one mishap, but we cannot permit any others: pull it down.) To what false trail are you refering? The false trails that I was talking about were the stumps and the horseshoe beam.

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