RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax?

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Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 5:33:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail assuming that nobody will argue that the anybody from ancient greece up to lets say the time of Richard Feynmann (I can never spell that fuckin' guys name right) is involved in the government conspiracy due to lack of interest or some other reasonable interpretation-------- a quck ratio of those 2 uncontested facts (if they are uncontested, perhaps someone will come up with different measurements) from some government supported nefariously mindclouding website.......(like Arpig, that fuckin' realist)..........LOL. Then going to conversion calculators (several.....in case they have my hose monitored as a subversive) and I don't know that they are on the "right" side of this.....(but they all came up with the same figure, so maybe that is in and of itself conspiratorial..... the fuckin' weight of the building at rest on that pile will equivocate to a little over 30 miles below the earths surface or a temperature of about 1600 degrees fahrenheit..... Ron um ron..... annealing temperature for standard steel is about 1300 - 1400 degrees, melting temperature for higher grade steels are 2750 degrees and supposedly this asmt 119e structural stell is higher than that! So the worst case it would be just barely be starting to glow red at 1600... It would be really kool if someone out here knows the properties of asmt 119e steel cuz i have called several structural suppliers and no knows, they sell it but its not listed if you can beliueve in their charts!!!

mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 6:04:06 PM)
quote: Well i agree that its aluminu mixed with iron oxide, but not from the plane.... that was self sustaining and i am guessing that you and i would agree that molten metal is not self sustaining.... at least i have never seen metal melt itself down in open air... well except magnesium but than that is easy to recognize... I will first point out that sodium (a metal) is unstable in water---and is incindiary in the open air------------you are a welder and should know that. next, aluminum mixed with iron oxide is the basis of thermite, and it don't look like thermite, it don't act like thermite, (again the glob) First I don't know what the hell that is but I replayed that many times, and will again many times........thats why it is not a transitive statement or property to say fuel rich=oxygen starved.......... Do you have a stopwatch? get a cheap one and see this for yourself. Someone on this thread corrected Synergy when he quoted E=mc * mc and said that at this situation is not atomic in general and is F=ma So, we have a situation here of at most a little more than one atmosphere------the sea is right off the shore--- 14.70 psi .........plus or minus maybe 1 atmosphere...........add the wind, because it is extremely evident there was some at the place where it burnt---------- give you one atmosphere for that--- maybe I have left out something, I suspect you will point it out. Now, if that is the case, the yellow blob cannot be thermite or any goddam form of it because, if basic calculations are true based on avrogados law (the guy that did barometers) and you LISTEN closely to the video that you supplied, as I said at the outset, there is definitely a anomoly at the cantilever that also quite plainly sprays material in a downward fashion............time it an you can quite plainly hear the spatter as it hits........... given a vacuum the thing is dropping at 32/ftsec/ftsec.......resistance is at or above 3 atmospheres and therefore 45 psi .........no thud, but liquid splatter, nope that shit is liquid and hits liquid and thus is not metallic in any shape or form-- if I look closely and think about it, I am willing to accede that it might be freon (never minding the ball of flame), because the vapor cloud was instantaneously before the liquid and I would hate to have to tell my grandchildren that that little cantilever area was an executive bathroom (cause you know how much it costs to build that cantilever that high up? (do you have any idea how pretentious that is) and as an add on in a (built from 1960 to 1972 project, which I may or may not talk about later) they may have stuck a bunch of pipes including an executive bathroom there? and you and I are talking about a low spot in the plumbing that sat next to a gas pipe with a flame arrester that failed? and that is a toilet voiding? Sorry, thats not how I want my grandkids to remember me.......I do not think at this point that it is an event of concern in our consideration of that building folding. or who did it. and for me, it is one and two in that order. Ron

Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 6:09:22 PM)
quote: It would be really kool if someone out here knows the properties of asmt 119e steel cuz i have called several structural suppliers and no knows, they sell it but its not listed if you can beliueve in their charts!!! From a quick bit of research, assuming you mean ASTM 119 e (if not, then I can find nothing whatsoever about "asmt 119e steel". Well apparently ASTM 119 e appears to be a set of standards for the heat testing of building materials, rather than a set of specific minimum properties. If that is the case, then that would explain why the suppliers don't have specs for that steel, as one can assume that the properties would vary from one grade to the next. I may have misread what I found, I don't have a lot of time right now...I have a massage to give.

mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 6:19:01 PM)
Some of the sites you gave me, showed ironmen cutting beams to clear them from the rubble...........never saw that picture in all you sent out.........I am now standing corrected and will recant part of what I said, but it does not change the bottom line, I have seen many pictures as they demolished the rubble, and now I will admit to the world that I am totally mistaken, they were not cut with plasma but good ol' oxy/acetelene........My hat is off to the skill of a guy running a hatchet like that and making cuts like table plasma cuts by dint of his skill. But it don't change much in terms of the conspiracy, them pictures are of cuts made by a torch after the fact.......end of joke. Ron I think you can stick AFME or ASME (i'll give you half of it (Mechanical Engineers) into google and get what you want............I saw no pictures anywhere of STEEL that was subject to thermite, see my previous posts on this, the slag don't show that there was other than considered cutting on the stuff you showed me. Show me slag the size of baseballs or basket balls and I will reconsider, but this shit is too surgical (oh oh) of a cut to be shape or bomb cut. No can do, pal.............\ Ron

Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 6:44:36 PM)
Funny, didn't take me long to find some....guess its just a matter of opening ones eyes. http://www.legacy.com/Sept11/Home.aspx http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/victims_list.htm

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 7:00:34 PM)
The material dripping down from the window in the images in post 202 must be molten metal. I guess that there is sufficient energy in it to locally destroy five to ten of the perimeter columns. Let me guess that the temperature is at least 3000 °C - at least twice the melting temperature of steel. According to NIST the flow of molten metal lasted four seconds. What quantity of molten metal do we have here? Half of one cubic meter at most? Where did it come from? The floor support beam as well as one or both perimeter pillars must have produced the metal. Presumably the concrete ceiling above the support beam also contributed material to the flow. It may have been thermate that produced the flow of molten metal, but if it produced sufficient heat to melt half of one cubic meter of metal and concrete and heat it to 3000 °C, then how much thermate are we talking about? If not thermate what else could have generated that energy?

Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 7:00:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Funny, didn't take me long to find some....guess its just a matter of opening ones eyes. http://www.legacy.com/Sept11/Home.aspx http://www.september11victims.com/september11victims/victims_list.htm Cool! Great contribution Ar! i stand down on no passengers on the plane angle! i also found this which i thought was interesting http://www.911timeline.net/marianivsbush.htm

Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 7:02:34 PM)
Here's a few links to sites with info on various memorials to the dead passengers, as requested....maybe the US Government is supressing these sites south of the border, don't know but all I did was google it and voila! http://cbs4boston.com/911/local_story_256083706.html http://www.massport.com/about/press_news_911_mem.html http://www.honorflight93.org/atf/cf/%7BB232543D-8796-40D6-B129-882809D9034B%7D/flight93_5thAnniversary.pdf http://www.house.gov/transportation/press/press2005/release96.html http://usinfo.state.gov/is/Archive/2006/Jun/16-852937.html http://familiesofseptember11.org/resources.aspx?s=10 http://www.pahighways.com/features/shanksville.html Well I have other things that need doing, so here's a link to a site that appears to have links to various other memorial sites, etc. http://www.bu.edu/prc/6months/6monthweb.htm

Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 7:08:48 PM)
Welcome R1. I still think you might be onto something with the idea of there being explosives of some sort on the planes, that would go a long way towards explaining some of the things that happened for which the official explanation seems a little stretched. And unlike the "wired-for-demolition" scenario, it doesn't need any great willing suspension of disbelief to accept. And for Rule & sissify, well they can be happy believing the Gvt wired the planes...a win-win

Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 7:12:40 PM)
i also found this which i thought was interesting http://www.911timeline.net/marianivsbush.htm Gotta love the US, where else could the head of state be sued like that eh? here's a line that caught my eye, something I suspect there are a good number of people who never thought they would ever be so lucky as to see it in print: Defendant GWB [:D][:D][:D][:D]

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 7:51:26 PM)
Flights 11 and 77 never took off. Testimonies by various witnesses - please do not ask for references, it is something I remember, but that is it - indicate that those objects in fact were small planes or missiles. According to others the holes they left are also indicative of small planes - I do not know whether that it correct. These objects presumably carried bombs to create the illusion that they actually were larger planes. Flight 93 is said to have exploded in midair. Other witnesses suggest that it was shot down by a military plane. It seems most likely that it was wired with explosives - to prevent significant evidence from being retrieved. Presumably the alleged highjackers had no bombs in their pockets, as they preferred to fill them with box-cutters according to the alleged cell-phone calls. So I suppose that 'American Airlines' wired the plane and that the alleged box-cutting highjackers were not present, for why bring boxcutters on a plane that is already wired? (I do not recall that any box-cutters or cell-phones were ever retrieved from the debris of Flight 93.) The only 'plane' that does not appear to have had a bomb on board was Flight 175 as that actually was a large plane that was thought to destroy itself and to be destroyed by the collapse of the tower. Four 'planes' and all destroyed completely or nearly completely within about one hour. It is a curious statistic, isn't it?

stef -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 8:16:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Flights 11 and 77 never took off. What great timing. I just saw a story on the evening news where DNA checks against remains found at the WTC scene turned up a match between one of Flight 11's flight attendants, a passenger on the same flight and an unnamed third person. http://cbs4boston.com/newhampshire/local_story_306065526.html ~stef

mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 8:26:56 PM)
So, you are saying that they were having a threesome and they were immured together, and you have pictures or are you saying that it was a result of thermite............don't fuck around here stef, armorer to the king of spain, explain cause and effect......... no, fuckin' around now, what is the yellow glob, who gives a fuck and how is that related to the world trade center coming down knowing that it is not what brought it down, and please; don't be pedantic, couple of sentences max, K?, vowels at 11. LOLOOLOLOOLOLOOL. gowd, there is a limit guys

stef -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 8:37:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail So, you are saying that they were having a threesome and they were immured together, and you have pictures or are you saying that it was a result of thermite............don't fuck around here stef, armorer to the king of spain, explain cause and effect.. I think they might have been engaged in a sixsome with Rule, Mork from Ork and Beldar Conehead. I wish I had pictures, I could get rich selling them to the Weekly World News. quote: no, fuckin' around now, what is the yellow glob, who gives a fuck and how is that related to the world trade center coming down knowing that it is not what brought it down, and please; don't be pedantic, couple of sentences max, K?, vowels at 11. I can, but I won't. I am willing to discuss information that other people have uncovered and publicized, but I will not discuss information that I have discovered and that is not yet publicized. ~stef

Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 8:51:23 PM)
Damn stef, I am starting to like you...please say you still think I'm a pompous ass...I need some stability in my life

mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 9:00:29 PM)
AP? Bob? you got a calc? check this as I understand the towere was 1340 (one 42 one 48) and in a void the free fall rate by gravitry is 32/fps/ps but someone said something about 6.43 sec from start to finish on a building.........................1340 feet/32 ft would equal something on the order of 204 sec to drop the motherfucker, assume you divide it in half for the gnats ass of an airplane and since we know this three glob engine mothefucker is coming out of Hoboken and not Boston, could you find it in your heart to say, agreed, the pod is a radio or other steering device maybe manned maybe not, and with the auto pilot and all not evincining a need for anybody in the body, couldn/t you stuff some saran rap in there and (albeit cleverly) toss a couple thousand pounds of jeta in the fuselage? C.mon, you democratic liberal flagrant asshole -- admit that its possible--- there is no way that people were on that plane.......... Think about it, NYC the most heavily traveled airspce in the world...........radar is for pussies, the plane is outfitted in hoboken. nj lets just say, extra tit on it, no baggage handler even passes this thru their mind, then---and you gotta hang with me on this bob, you are a canuck and dont get this, but --the weekend before the accident and they thow a bunch of engineers into the bulding and cut off the top 20 floors and baggage hanndlers looking at a 3 titted airplane and of course you saw the thing with the beam bent in horeshoe........... I mean c'mon, goddammit, how is that not logical? Bullshit, you talk big, but give me a simpler explaination LMCAO, Ron Its all about the conspiracy life contains nothing normal

mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 9:03:45 PM)
C'mon, don't be coy darlin'---are you from France? LOL, Ron

Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 9:14:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stef What great timing. I just saw a story on the evening news where DNA checks against remains found at the WTC scene turned up a match between one of Flight 11's flight attendants, a passenger on the same flight and an unnamed third person. Thank you, Stef, that is useful information. Occasionally some of those alleged to have been aboard the four flying objects will die from various causes - say fifteen every five years. Putting some of their remains among those found five years ago enables their relatives to formally get closure and creates the illusion that those four people were aboard those planes. How very stupid of them to do so! Now we know that someone in the storage of these remains is an accomplish, we know the names of two people who appear to be certifiable dead, and we know the name of one of their relatives - that is one more than before. Have you noticed what we do not know? Time to celebrate for me. For you as well, r1: here is one of the relatives that you were trying to find: Michelle Pare from Beverly, a cousin of flight attendant Karen Martin. I did not investigate Martin and Stone before, but I might now.

Arpig -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 9:15:48 PM)
You might be onto something there Ron, never thought about it that way......

mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (11/2/2006 9:19:21 PM)
so we agree that the fuel question is solved in the 50-60 thousand gallon range? LOL Ron

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