RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (Full Version)

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luckydog1 -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 4:49:18 PM)

real one, I dont care what temperature a tire fire burns at, the point is being pushed that Black smoke = oxegeyn starved fire, and that is not true.  Plastics burn with black smoke and an office building is full of plastic.  Any substance burns at different temperatures depending on the conditions.  You can most certainly get a degree in why buildings fall, its under structual engineering.  None of your 'experts" have any such thing.  I did provide a link, a list of the people you consider to be "experts", and I challenge everyone to actually examine it.  It's nonsense.  None of them have expertise in any related field, and several of them are absolute nuts.  Steven Earl Jones for one.  Did you actually read the wikipedia page you posted on him?  He is apperantly a genius on particle physics and Cold fusion, but like many "geniouses" he is clueless about other things.   Jones has written a paper entitled "Behold My Hands: Evidence for Christ's Visit in Ancient America" in which he used archeological evidence to support the claims of Joseph Smith Jr. (founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints) that Jesus had visited the Native Americans after his Resurrection, an event chronicled in the Book of Mormon.     Do you need to have a link to what a tire fire looks like?  You have never seen plastic burn?




luckydog1 -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 4:54:11 PM)

Zensee, please give me a name of any expert that has relevant training/experience.  The list of 911 experts is a joke.  Please name me a single one who is credible in a relevant field.  Which one of them do you consider a "technicall expert"?




Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 5:00:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1
I encourage everyone who is interested to examine this list( look up the individual members to see what their credentials actually are).  Not a single one of them has any expertise in related fields whatsoever.  An Optical or nuclear physist has no relevant expertise.  And most of the list is just laughable.  And anyone who takes them seriously is not too bright.  Anyone who pretends they are "experts" is either lying or stupid.  And for the record Plastic/rubber  burns black smoke, no matter how much/little air it gets( ever seen a tire fire?)....

That’s a pretty broad statement. What precisely constitutes relevant expertise; a PhD in Covert Ops from MIT, a Masters in Applied Domestic Terror at Harvard? Pray enlighten us.


well thats a cute list he posted but i will take the word of the engineers;
Minoru Yamasaki
John Skilling
Les Robertson,
who did the actual design and designed it for 16 times the minimum requirements of a fully loaded building.  That and since one of the links i posted regarding the wtc is one from nist. 

i think we just have a case of another one who jumped in mouth first without doing his homework first.  Its pretty easy to say someone isnt qualified but unfortunately many people are unqualified to make that determination.  case in point when based on title alone which appears to be the case here since he cannot seem to come up with any supporting data for his assessment....









Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 5:02:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

real one, I dont care what temperature a tire fire burns at, the point is being pushed that Black smoke = oxegeyn starved fire, and that is not true.  Plastics burn with black smoke and an office building is full of plastic. 


Hmm the windsor tower had lots of plastic and desks and it burned a brilliant orange and the smoke was not black.

That and if you do not care what temperature it burns at or actual heat transfered then why are you even in this discussion in the first place?

corrected typo
added more info




Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 5:04:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1
here's a great partial list of relevant experts...people who actually are experts in explosives, ait chrashes, structual collapses ect.

Indeed? Thus whatever they say by definition is honey sweet gospel? Duh.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

I do realise that sissify and rule have already declared this site to be meaningless, and as proof they point to a few ranting Blog entries.

I beg your pardon? Wherever did I previously declare that site meaningless? Wherever did I point to Blog entries? I do expect an apology for this disinformation and smear campaign.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Steve Riskus freelance photographer; eyewitness, Pentagon crash

I will now declare that site as suspect. Any list that includes a witness of the Pentagon crash per definition is not credible. I have yet to investigate this person, but just about every word in the above quote is a warning sign. His name truly is Risk-Us?




Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 5:05:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1
Zensee, please give me a name of any expert that has relevant training/experience.  The list of 911 experts is a joke.  Please name me a single one who is credible in a relevant field.  Which one of them do you consider a "technicall expert"?


hehe i just did:
Minoru Yamasaki
John Skilling
Les Robertson,

They are not on the list and they said the building should have with stood several fully loaded 707 crashes at once, so what in that is not good enough for you?




Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 5:17:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
i think we just have a case of another one who jumped in mouth first without doing his homework first.  Its pretty easy to say someone isnt qualified but unfortunately many people are unqualified to make that determination.  case in point when based on title alone which appears to be the case here since he cannot seem to come up with any supporting data for his assessment....

Quite.
 
I will read your profile, r1. Your posts demonstrate exceptional talents.




Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 5:19:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
i think we just have a case of another one who jumped in mouth first without doing his homework first.  Its pretty easy to say someone isnt qualified but unfortunately many people are unqualified to make that determination.  case in point when based on title alone which appears to be the case here since he cannot seem to come up with any supporting data for his assessment....

Quite.
 
I will read your profile, r1. Your posts demonstrate exceptional talents.


to funny!

its empty!  LOL




luckydog1 -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 6:05:09 PM)

Nope not one of those 3(Minoru Yamasaki,John Skilling ,or Les Robertson) are on the 911 scholars for truth, and they do not endorse it.  Feel free to show me where they think it had to be a thermite bomb, and the planes could not have possibly brought it down.




Sinergy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 6:12:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

An exploding airliner wouldn't generate enough heat to start a campfire - thanks, that just makes me laugh to no end.



Made me chortle as well.

A large aluminum object going 600 miles per hour with wings loaded with hundreds of gallons of jet fuel collides with a stationary steel reinforced concrete object.

I think the proper physics equation would be force = mass of the object multiplied by the square of the speed of that object.  600 mph (approximately 270km) times itself has to end up as a large number somehow.

I dunno, seems like enough energy to light at least one campfire to me.

Sinergy




Sinergy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 6:17:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Yeah, well, that is interesting, but a gnat colliding with a pine tree will not snap the pine tree according to the difference in the energy of the gnat compared to the inertial mass of the pine tree. I am not a physicist, but I imagine that I can discern when a physicist makes sense and the comparative gnat energy versus pine tree inertial mass statement makes eminent sense to me.



This is not entirely true.

The physics of Force is the equation Force applied equals mass of the object multiplied by the square of it's acceleration.

Force(impact against pine tree) equales mass(of gnat) times (derivative of top speed + 0 (speed at end))squared.

A gnat does not weigh much, but if it is going fast enough it will take out a pine tree.

Not sure gnats can fly that fast, but there you go.  Put one in a particle accelerator and accelerate it to .9 times light speed, and I imagine a lot of pine trees would be knocked over on impact.

Sinergy




Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 6:43:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

Nope not one of those 3(Minoru Yamasaki,John Skilling ,or Les Robertson) are on the 911 scholars for truth, and they do not endorse it.  Feel free to show me where they think it had to be a thermite bomb, and the planes could not have possibly brought it down.


what i will do is break your 2 part question into its components.
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1Feel free to show me where they think it had to be a thermite bomb.

Now with your approach if they said it was a thermite bomb you would say they were just structural engineers and unqualified to make that assessment becuase they did not have a degree in explosives.  So whats the point?
quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1Feel free to show me where they think the planes could not have possibly brought it down.

I already answered this one, like how many more times do i need to repeat it for you?
The interview is somewhere on the st911 site, feel free to get off yer ass and look for it!
i am watching a movie right now.  a cool cannibal one 
DO NOT DISTURB  <--- see the do not disturb sign? LOL
That information is like so all over the net its rediculous.
Its like wtc 001




Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 6:45:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Yeah, well, that is interesting, but a gnat colliding with a pine tree will not snap the pine tree according to the difference in the energy of the gnat compared to the inertial mass of the pine tree. I am not a physicist, but I imagine that I can discern when a physicist makes sense and the comparative gnat energy versus pine tree inertial mass statement makes eminent sense to me.



This is not entirely true.

The physics of Force is the equation Force applied equals mass of the object multiplied by the square of it's acceleration.

Force(impact against pine tree) equales mass(of gnat) times (derivative of top speed + 0 (speed at end))squared.

A gnat does not weigh much, but if it is going fast enough it will take out a pine tree.

Not sure gnats can fly that fast, but there you go.  Put one in a particle accelerator and accelerate it to .9 times light speed, and I imagine a lot of pine trees would be knocked over on impact.

Sinergy


christ i have tears in my eyes i am laughing so hard LOLOL




Rule -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 7:08:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
This is not entirely true.

The physics of Force is the equation Force applied equals mass of the object multiplied by the square of it's acceleration.

Not sure gnats can fly that fast, but there you go.  Put one in a particle accelerator and accelerate it to .9 times light speed, and I imagine a lot of pine trees would be knocked over on impact.

You are confusing a gnat with an atom bomb. The formula for force is not E = mc^2. It is F = ma.
 
If you want to calculate the kinetic energy of a gnat, that is another matter. However, if you had paid any attention to my previous posts, you would have learned that physicists already have calculated the energy released by the planes upon collision and that they concluded that compared to the inertial mass of the WTC-towers it was insignificant. I am sufficiently smart not to dispute that conclusion. I pity anyone who does dispute their conclusion.
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
christ i have tears in my eyes i am laughing so hard LOLOL

Quite. Reading his post there are but two options: either one laughs or one cries. Personally I think it is rather sad. It reminds me of that spaceship in "The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy" by Douglas Adams: filled with assistant hairdressers only, intent on colonizing a new planet.




Real0ne -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 7:10:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

An exploding airliner wouldn't generate enough heat to start a campfire - thanks, that just makes me laugh to no end.



Made me chortle as well.

A large aluminum object going 600 miles per hour with wings loaded with hundreds of gallons of jet fuel collides with a stationary steel reinforced concrete object.

I think the proper physics equation would be force = mass of the object multiplied by the square of the speed of that object.  600 mph (approximately 270km) times itself has to end up as a large number somehow.

I dunno, seems like enough energy to light at least one campfire to me.

Sinergy


you guys miss the point so easily!

ok here.
take a gallon of jp4 and slowly pour into a fire, hell walk around in a circle with it and you will have one big circle of fire till it all burns up.  Now you could light lots of camp fires with that.

now have an ignitor set to spark on impact near your steel wall.  slam an enlosed gallon of jp4 into that same wall at whatever you said 400? 600 mph activating the ignitor at exactly the same instant the can bursts.  there will be a mist of jp4 that will burn nearly instantly with no secondary fires... 

So once again; only 2 fires were found, they didnt appear to be anywhere near the core, and a fireman said on the radio that 2 hoses will put them out...  but then none iof them seen the thermite burning thru the floor welds on the side of the building did he?

i really dont get whats so difficult about this for you, do you think a jet smashes thru a steel building and the gas tanks remain intact till they get inside the building then slowly pour out jp4 at a gallon per hour so it can burn for a month or what?

now put it into a particle accelerator and it would go right thru it.... LOL




mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 7:26:51 PM)

I watched the video on prison planet talking about thermite and showing the corners of the building burning looking up from street level.to the left in the video (2:49 long) the smoke is white and in the vicinity of the faceted corner caps of the building (the they cut across the 90 degree of the corner at a 45 degree angle) the smoke is black and billowing about straight up, given that the wind at that level of the building (and no, in cities and in a sky scrapers vivinity winds are not homogenous throughout the erective) flows in a direction from right to left in the picture, overall.I can assure you that those faceted endcaps contained a huge amount of PVC coated, glass based fiber optic cables for that building and the black smoke is consistant with the burning of the PVC covering on the cable (and noxious as hell) and the yellow glop running down the corner is consistent with melting glass...........no mystery there. Some of those cables in that chaseway were 6 or 8 inches in diameter alot of brokerage boiler rooms in them buildings and high speed computer gear and whatnot.  Awesome to look down some of those chaseways....you should see some of them on Pearl and Wall Street----  I (ahem) have very specialized knowledge of the old NYNEX company and its cabling, trunking, switching and central offices, and more.  Not gonna claim to be an expert, though -- so some of you can put away the scimitars, and go back to the samovars, K?  Now I have dabbled for about 10 years of my life in the metallurgical arts and therefore whatever cold fusion knowledge the shit for brains that got kicked out of BYU  possesses is  worth about a gnats ass in terms of his metals nomenclature and is dismissed out of hand with extreme predjudice since he calls it iron in about the first paragraph and that is right up on my shit-list with heineous overstatement as is the term hermeticaly-sealed.


There was another site I visited, What really happened at the WTC (or something on that order) and saw a fireman in the foreground of the picture staning in front of one of the heavy cord I (or H if you prefer) beams, it disturbed me one flange (the left side of the H) was rusted at the top (indicating it had either seen air a long time or water) and the web (the crossbar of the H) and and one flange was at about a 50 or 60 degree angle to the horizontal and there was clearly cutting dross on it.  OK, but upon  further reflection, it  can just as easily be postulated  (since it was several days after the downfall) that  it was cut with a plasma torch  (that is what the  cut  appears  absolutely like)  with the web cut  first and the  foreground  flange  cut at the last  away from the cutter to aid in  digging and manueverability at the site (had you boys goin' for a second there, didn't I ?)  The cut by thermite would have been raucious and would have left much much more dross in large globs as opposed to overlapping and steady rivens.

The rust covering the cores is red and fuzzy moisture rust, as opposed to black and pitted heat rust.

So, no conspiracy evidence there, though it proports to be so at that site.
But, I am willing to hold my self-admittedly non-expert opinion in abeyance in this matter (that's right folks, Jack-of-all-trades, Master of none (this includes my personal sex life for any of you hawt babes who want a cerebral fucking)) if the following can be answered to my satisfaction:  first  we must pre-suppose a stipulation, and that is that one core cut would not cave the building, so  several  thermite charges  have been set, what possible mechanisms  would set them off (fuck a bunch of radios I get that), I am talking fuzes..........how would you account for the many NYC building inspectors, building maintenance, janitorial staff, repairmen--- ad nauseam (to say nothing of the interested and incessantly nosy tourists of NYC architecture that have been on tours throughout those buildings) having never discovering these carefully placed and admittedly larger than a deck of playing card sized (by several scales of mass) thermite bombs?    I will look at some more of these sites you have so kindly provided Rule, but as yet, no reason to believe the gist of the conspiracy........

I remain,
Ron  





Sinergy -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 7:39:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

You are confusing a gnat with an atom bomb. The formula for force is not E = mc^2. It is F = ma.
 


Good point.  I apologize.  It has been 15 years since I took physics, and my formulae may be incorrect.

A gnat going .9% of light speed would not negatively impact a pine tree. 

You win.

Sinergy




ZenrageTheKeeper -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 7:40:51 PM)

Heh.. My conjecture was that Bush hit the Pentagon at the same time as Al Qaeda hit the Twin Towers.. and it was just the mother of all coincidences. 




mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 7:44:50 PM)

Ummm, sorry ladies and gentleman, my computer went casters up and I couldn't get in to edit my post, so I would like to apologize for all the typos.......especially to those of you who may not have english installed as your primary language up top....................


Some days you just can't make a dime........

Sheepishly,
Ron




mnottertail -> RE: 911 - Al-Qaeda or Hoax? (10/30/2006 7:53:30 PM)

So why didn't the fucking guy put a couple hoses on the fire if he was up there, and how the fuck did he run down the stairs and out the building to get the hoses before the building blew up?  Asshole was nowhere near the place.........and if the fucker is a real man, why didn't he whip out his dick and start pissing them little fires out?

Shitbreathers will say anything for their 15 minutes of fame, hell, they will say they burned the Reichstag, but that just don't necessarily make it fuckin' SO!!!! Show me the guy standing in the FireHouse with the brigade behind him, going Yup.....Yup.....Yup, and I will give it some currency...........this is hardly prima facia evidence of nothing, let alone something for fucks sake.


LOLOLOL,
Ron  




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