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RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 9:12:32 AM

sailorthor

Posts: 53
Status: offline

This is quite interesting! I tend to be pretty picky about propriety and titles. In the BDSM world I have really only encountered "Master" in reference to master/slave relationships, which, so far as I know, can be quite different from a dominant/submissive relationship.

The only context in which I'd use the term "master" (bdsm wise) is the master/slave relationship context. It is not a title I would claim without having earned it. I do hold a license in the merchant marine as Master of certain sized vessels, therefore when operating the vessel as her captain (or master, the old distinction is rather not considered these days), I am in fact a Master in that context. I am also pursuing a Master's degree, so in that context would also be a bona fide master. I have met folks I'd consider to have mastery over whip techniques, and so calling them a Whip-Master would be quite appropriate.

What I seek in life is to master life. To fully understand interactions, emotions, thoughts, feelings, sciences, techniques, and whatsoever else I encounter. In the bdsm world, my sense is that I'd be more compatible with someone identifying as a slave than as a submissive. Has to do with the degree of objectification play of interest, among other things. But, I'd not call myself a master until I had some evidence (even if only to myself) that I had in fact mastered life.

The evidence is mounting, which is comforting. What is not so comforting is the corpus of folks who don't find propriety to be so important.

Enjoy Life,
SailorThor

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(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 21

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 9:18:50 AM

HalloweenWhite

Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I saw this in a profile and I took it that the person is splitting hairs. They state that a Dom is not a true Master. Dom and Master are just titles. Does the word Master sound more majestic than Dom. I think that they both serve the same function. I think that submissives serve either with just as much pashion. Im here to learn so if Im wrong please enlighten me.

As I understand it, all in the lifestyle who dominate are "Dommes (if female) or Doms. (if male). Master is a title given to a Dom. by their submissive just as Mistress is used by a submissives if they're collard by a Domme.

(in reply to Dnomyar)

Post #: 22

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 9:26:24 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

I am only speaking for myself about my own journey: I identified as Master about 2 years ago, after having been Mistress Fire for several years. To me, there is a difference between a Dom and a Master, although they can overlap. I have a tendency to follow Master Steve's Top/bottom, Dom/sub and Master/slave definitions. Master is a spiritual journey, Mistress is a mental one. If you're really interested in more, read "Master vs Mistress...or...I am a grapefruit", one of my Sept. 29th, 2006 blog entries.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to Dnomyar)

Post #: 23

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 9:49:07 AM

ExtremeOwnerIL

Posts: 197
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

The trouble is the concept of earning leathers while talked about alot in the het community was not as easily accessed by them as it was by gay leathermen. Not knowing what they needed to do to earn leathers many just chose not to bother or to claim earning them through some unknown and unreachable group.

I think that is another key point (and apologies to OP for hijacking the thread a bit, but I think it's partially relevant to the concept of being just a "Dom" or self titled master vs. a true awarded Master). The concept of earning something.

I'm a het and while I can't speak for all hets in all walks of life, the ones I have observed in the local area (northern IL, USA - think Chicagoland area) seem to share a common trait - they "discovered" BDSM through the Internet, they look at it as instant gratification and they are not aware of the leather history. That is unfortunate, there being the Leather Archives and Museum here in Chicago, as well as the 26+ years of IML being hosted in this area.

I think it's common for hets to look at it as a "thing to do", or a fad. Some come to learn the history and respect it, but I find that is rare, at least in my experience. It's oftentimes the work of the GBLT community that brings the history and traditions to light to the het community and gets the ball rolling.

I think the availability of information and accessibility to BDSM venues is a good thing - but I think in the rush, certain concepts have been lost, of which the OP brings to light - what *is* a Master? I'm glad that there are some efforts to bring some of the older traditions back to light.

I've not "earned my leathers" but I hope to one day.

Regards,
EO

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 24

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 9:57:13 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RoverBut by far the largest body of "Masters" are those practicing self-masturbatory adulation, in which they bestow the title upon themselves in an amusing effort to appear more important than they are.

John

really? has that been your experience? that must not be very pleasant.

maybe this might help?

i find that when i choose to make every person i meet important, even the ones that play at a differing skill or commitment level then i do, i have a better time at parties, and i meet some pretty interesting folks too.

_____________________________

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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 25

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:00:08 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

.....I think it's common for hets to look at it as a "thing to do", or a fad.

Once upon a time, it was for gay leathermen, too. Motorcycles were built for WWII...they had to build their own when they got home. Leather was part of the military uniform because it makes excellent gear when riding. The structure grew from there...earning military ranks became earning leather. It was the "thing to do" if you wanted to join the "fad" of bikers.

Master Fire

< Message edited by MasterFireMaam -- 11/1/2006 10:19:23 AM >

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to ExtremeOwnerIL)

Post #: 26

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:04:55 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

ooops i did not get very far into the thread before i got sidetracked....

Master vs. Dom...welll my view is very similar to MasterfireMams view as far as the title of master representing mastering oneself as a spiritual sojourn, and dom is more of sexual orientation.

I have to go read her blog though because now i am curious as to why being a Mistress is a mental journey....

and i have to admit i am curious about the grapefruit thing too....i thought i was the only one on this planet who felt like a grapefruit trapped in a womans body...

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 27

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:07:09 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

dom is more of sexual orientation.

? I think a lot of Doms will find that interesting. Being dominant has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 28

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:17:33 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

yeah i know what you mean, i dont agree with you when you say "nothing to do with it" but i know what you mean...i searched for a word....and that was what came up......but its more like a whole life orrentaion....but i have never met a dom that it was not a core sexual thing too....

what i was trying to say is that since i believe that ones whole being stems from their sexuality, their sexuality being the seed of thier existance,that that then effects how they interact with others in all aspects of life.

Not necessarily consciously or overtly but there is a palpable undercurrent to every person that seemingly stems from their sexual orrentaion...or at least that is what i have noticed....

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 11/1/2006 10:19:50 AM >

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Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 29

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:20:24 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

dom is more of sexual orientation.

? I think a lot of Doms will find that interesting. Being dominant has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

i have seen this allusion a few times myself lately (not illusion....although it may very well be...lol). Some sort of reference to M/s relationships are deeper because they have gone beyond the mere sexual aspect of a Dom/sub relationship....or something along those lines.

So is this the new trend...or have i just been out of the loop?

DG

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 30

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:20:25 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I could see a top more as a person oriented with the physical part. But I see a Dom as more on the mental, emotional and physical plane. As far as a "Master", that's just a word that some people use to make them feel good. I've talked to guys and explained I am "sub" and they would say "if we're in a relationship, you will be a slave, because I am a Master." They just like the way it sounds.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 31

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:24:15 AM

CrappyDom

Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline

quote:

But by far the largest body of "Masters" are those practicing self-masturbatory adulation, in which they bestow the title upon themselves in an amusing effort to appear more important than they are.

This quote made my day!

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 32

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:26:46 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

But by far the largest body of "Masters" are those practicing self-masturbatory adulation, in which they bestow the title upon themselves in an amusing effort to appear more important than they are.

Unfortunately, it's true.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 33

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:39:14 AM

cravinspankin

Posts: 127
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

BTW....i still wonder why CM hasn't added that as an option for the guys here. The females get to check off if they are a sub or slave but the guys can choose Dom, but not Master. i wonder why that is? Now that would be an interesting option to see

DG

This is presuming that all males are Dominant types, and all females are submissive or slave. Though i am a submissive female, certainly there are many submissive mem and Dominant women.

(in reply to adaddysgirl)

Post #: 34

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:46:54 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

Katylied,
quote:

they just like the way it sounds
lol well that is true too.....

Crappy, glad it made someones day.

cravenspankin, damn good point.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 35

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:53:33 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cravinspankin

quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

BTW....i still wonder why CM hasn't added that as an option for the guys here. The females get to check off if they are a sub or slave but the guys can choose Dom, but not Master. i wonder why that is? Now that would be an interesting option to see

DG

This is presuming that all males are Dominant types, and all females are submissive or slave. Though i am a submissive female, certainly there are many submissive mem and Dominant women.

It also presumes that all Masters are Male.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to cravinspankin)

Post #: 36

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 11:13:37 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

It also presumes that all Masters are Male.

Master Fire

If you view your profile, it lists a category of 'Profile Type'....which lists the options of Dominant, Submissive, Slave and Switch.

i just thought it odd that they distinguish between sub and slave, but not Dominant and Master (regardless of gender which is yet another category there).

DG

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 37

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 4:39:10 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear Archer, ExtremeOwnerIL, Ladies and Gentlemen;

Sir, you are spot on, in your comments about the resurgence out and about the USA, where the earning of leathers is restored as a tradition. It means to those who have earned leathers in the old traditions, that there is a distinction between those who are bestowed and or presented with their leathers and Master's cover and those who pluck them off the sales rack and pay with "MasterCard."

It is indeed needed in these changing times, as to put distance between those who respect the meanings, as well as the responsibilities assocated with their leathers. Though some go on to represent their clubs, groups and or associations as "title holders," the title of Master has no expiration once bestowed.

As for my experiences with my "investiture" ceremony; my American investiture was at The Baltimore Eagle, with all my "brothers" of The Baltimore Chapter of the International Trident's Association attending.
At the time, I waived the placement of the leather chaps; as to ease things from the 'lads.' However, my investiture was with the leather vest and the Master's cover. (We didn't use the term cap). In addition, there was the protocol of 'pinning.'

I was thrilled to conduct an investiture of sorts, at the Master-slave conference, in Washington, DC in July 2006. In bestowing leather to the gentleman, in company of very special friends; its so wonderful to embrace another into the world of being a Master. With months of planning and changes at the last minute, the effects were no less profound for him and for those who witnessed it and the one conducting it.

You are very correct, that each region, each club and leadership, have different 'traditions, rituals, ceremonies and or etiquette.' But, what is pleasant, is that some are extremely similiar. From the cover code, pinning protocols and uniforms; all can be very inspiring. And, I will add, that overseas has their own flavors to things as well.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to Archer)

Post #: 38

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 4:55:06 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

well... I haven't read this thread... but i will state much what I stated in the question about the difference between sub and slave.... I think the my answer applies here as well

You will get lot of different ideas but likely the only think you will find agreement on.. is that they are spelled differently.

Beyond that... I would be think would would be hard pressed to find any common ground

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Dnomyar)

Post #: 39

RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 5:23:36 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

Hello A/all,

I have a third degree black belt in a martial art I studied from 1983 to 2002.

I am one belt away from being referred to as a Master in that particular martial art.

I can live with that. I figure a belt is a nice thing to hold my uniform shut, and I generally tested under protest since I generally believed that I was not as good at something as I should have been to test.

The only person I truly enjoy being referred to as Sir is by the one who is mine, and there is a way she says it that makes me all giddy inside.

I have learned to tolerate other people calling me Sir when I was a martial arts instructor for a bunch of years and every Tom, Dick, and Harriet in the studio had to call me Sir. I personally think that titles are thrown around too freely, and lose a lot of their meaning because of that.

I will ask a person referring to me as such to call me Sinergy, or even my name, but if they express that it is difficult I dont demand they change their modus operandi.

On the other hand, if somebody demands to be referred to as LordGodKingSir, I wont argue with them either. I figure every Legend In Their Own mind needs their 15 minutes of masturbatory self-adulation, and who am I to deny this from them?

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

Edited to get rid of the extra disclaimer.

< Message edited by Sinergy -- 11/1/2006 5:27:14 PM >

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(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 40

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