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RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 5:50:13 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		it is simply a matter of symantics

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 5:57:14 PM   
Michaelat92544


Posts: 52
Joined: 8/21/2005
Status: offline 		It's semantics.

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 6:04:03 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		The only difference I have ever actualy seen used that I can almost buy:
A Master is Dom with a sub/slave at the time.  It is difficult to be Master over a nonexistant subject, so that difference I would give osmone.  Beyond that, its all a matter of what someone wants or likes. You could chose to have your pets call you Lord, Prince, or (as Ive seen elsewhere and got a god laugh from) Grand Poobah if it makes you happy.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 6:26:42 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		Erm this thread reminds me of the sub/slave threads

yes its just spliting hairs!!

Magik's slave

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If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 7:43:30 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I thought some folks might enjoy reading this David Davidson article (if you haven't read any of his work, he's a real hoot) that's rather pertinent to the subject matter.
 
http://www.the-o-zine.com/summer_2005/David.htm
 
John

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Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 8:24:42 PM   
MasterC46910


Posts: 108
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline 		Like LadyHugs, I started in the early 70's.  Just in a different venue then the leathermen and I was in the western states.  It was a earned title at the time.  Showing you learned and experienced a minimum of knowledge and skills to earn it.  Was approved by a number of your peers to call yourself such.  Now it mostly seems to be a thing of ridicule and mockery with all the new people that know so much better about the lifestyle.  I will be the first to admit it has changed a great deal.  Instead of the small isolated groups we use to have, we now have the internet to connect us all.   In some ways it is better, but in others I don't think it is.  I miss the respect and honor you had to actually physically earn in front of real people.  Then what do I know, I am only a old fossil...LOL

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 8:31:33 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Erm this thread reminds me of the sub/slave threads



Yes, and thank God, none of these folks have called themselves or others "twue" or "untwue."   

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Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

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(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 8:32:04 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		OK but like I'm true.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 9:07:24 PM   
DrgnLdyCatherine


Posts: 22
Joined: 11/14/2004
Status: offline 		Do you really think it matters if it's an option or not?  Do you know how many "Masters" there would be?  Everyone would be a "Master".  I think the point is moot.

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/1/2006 10:59:22 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I thought some folks might enjoy reading this David Davidson article (if you haven't read any of his work, he's a real hoot) that's rather pertinent to the subject matter.
 
http://www.the-o-zine.com/summer_2005/David.htm
 
John


I went and checked the article out, and while I know it is not an isolated opinion there are some holes in his ideas that beg to be tested.
There was a time when if I said "I was awarded my cap by Master X of Atlanta" it would convey exactly what Mr Davidson said it doesn't tell him.
That I had shown a level of competence, that I had given service to the community, That I had earned the respect of a certain man and that man would vouch for me.
Master X knew that his reputation in the community very much depended on the fact that the people he vouched for were of a certain competence and character.

Does it still tell us all these things? Depends, there are certainly names of folks I know who if someone earned there leathers from them I would have a real level of trust. Earned leathers have always been the same as any other character reference, they depend on the reputation of the person giving the reference as much as anything else.

In Leather

Archer


(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/2/2006 2:38:47 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DrgnLdyCatherine

Do you really think it matters if it's an option or not? 

i don't think it's of utmost importance, no.  i said i personally would like to see it as an option.  Is there some problem with that? 

Do you know how many "Masters" there would be?  Everyone would be a "Master".

Well, i could speculate.  i might even find it a bit amusing.

I think the point is moot.

Well thank you for sharing your kind opinion. 
 
DG



 

< Message edited by adaddysgirl -- 11/2/2006 2:51:43 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to DrgnLdyCatherine)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/2/2006 2:51:02 AM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire

The only difference I have ever actualy seen used that I can almost buy:
A Master is Dom with a sub/slave at the time.  It is difficult to be Master over a nonexistant subject, so that difference I would give osmone.  Beyond that, its all a matter of what someone wants or likes. You could chose to have your pets call you Lord, Prince, or (as Ive seen elsewhere and got a god laugh from) Grand Poobah if it makes you happy.

DV


i can almost buy this too DV.  The only problem i have with that are the ones that come on here as a dom, 2 weeks later collar "a slave" here, then come out and say they are a Master because they now have a slave.  In that reference, i can't buy it.
 
Now....i love Grand Poobah too.  i hope my next partner wants me to call him that    (Although i don't think i could do so with a straight face )
 
DG

 

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/2/2006 4:35:16 AM   
SirLordTrainer


Posts: 820
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Indy
Status: offline 		I think Rover, Hugs, Archer and a few others nailed this best. Only to add that My view of 'Master' (or 'Mistress' for that matter), is One who has earned it, and not necessarily awarded that title by some organized sect. In short, I feel it is the ability to not only put in the flight-time to learn these various skills, but also in being able to teach them. Not many average Doms endeavor to do that, and IMV that is the seperation.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/2/2006 6:29:18 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Earned leathers have always been the same as any other character reference, they depend on the reputation of the person giving the reference as much as anything else.



Archer, not only do I agree with your assertion completely, I think it really gets to the heart of the matter in a way that had escaped me previously.  And although at first blush you might think you contradict David's article, in fact I think that you're both expressing the same view in different ways.
 
You're absolutely right... leathers are a character reference.  And that's essentially what David is saying.  They don't convey any particular aptitide beyond being the kind of person that someone else is willing to stand up for and vouch for.  It might mean they dutifully organized and ran the community toy auction and bake sale for twenty years.  Or it may mean that they are the embodiment of the characteristics and traits that an individual or community value.  Or it may mean that they throw a mean whip.  You just don't know what it is that leathers "say" beyond the fact that they're a character reference.
 
So I guess what I'm observing, is that leathers no longer "say" very much.  Don't take that the wrong way, because in today's day and age a character reference from a known commodity is valuable (value isn't reliant upon quantity).  But in this age of instant gratification, a lot of the "MasterMonkeyNuts" types that read about leathers on the internet are simply gonna run down to the local fetish store, buy their own vest and cap, and fabricate the story of how it was bestowed upon them.  They already fabricate the rest of their personal biography.
 
I think such "calling cards" worked best when they were "known" only by those in the scene.  But today, with the internet, obtaining one's "leathers" (meaningless as it may be) takes no more effort than running down to Toys R Us to purchase a Darth Vader outfit for Halloween.  It matters not that they're not "genuine", just that they can claim to be genuine.
 
Cripes, I know I sound like I'm dissing our leather history but anyone who knows me knows that's not accurate.  I'm actually saying that our leather history has more relevance now than ever, and dissing the "who are you to say it's not true" crowd who prefer to accept that all things are possible and who make us all less relevant.
 
Did that make sense?
 
John

< Message edited by Rover -- 11/2/2006 6:35:35 AM >

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

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(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/2/2006 7:59:25 AM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire


Going on a different tangent than those already here.  Myself, I see a master as being someone who is in a solid relationship with their significant other.  They have sort of mastered that person.
A dom, also seeks a relationship or at least you hope so.  Yet they haven't gotten to that point yet.
Submissives would serve them all with the same passion?  I don't think so.  I think a submissive would serve their master with much more passion as it is a life choice they have made to be with that person.  It has gone deeper than the lust filled relationship all relationships start as.
Of course I also agree it is merely a word..and up for anyone's definition.



Now this I strongly disagree with. He's a dom, I'm his sub and we are in a strong and passionate relationship of over three years duration now.

I'm submissive to him because it's a choice I make, and make over again frequently whenever things are less than ideal.

If he suddenly announced that I was a slave with no more choice, I would reject that and him. He also objects to the concept of owning someone who has no choice. He wants me to passionately commit to him every day, not just once.

As far as the lust filled part of the relationship, that comes and goes depending on who is more sleep deprived, stressed or sick. Lately it seems all we do is pass a cold back and forth around here.

(in reply to sub4hire)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/2/2006 8:23:07 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Rover, Archer, MasterC46910, ExtremeOwnerIL, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
You are correct to say that in "our time" leathers was a character reference, just as much as recognition that you had references.  Which was all pre-internet, pre support and education groups and pre "academy" groups and associations.  Mostly, these seeds were sewn in Gay Leather Bars and Biker Groups who made it their 'base' or 'home.'
Tridents, Defenders, Centaur MC (who I might add hosts the Mid-Atlantic Leather 2007 in Washington, DC; January 12-14th; type in Mid Atlantic Leather 2007 in your browser and the rest of the information will be proffered); and so many other groups.  Some have died out and some have flourished.
 
That said; like I said before--now days through the Internet and the availability of leather goods; Most just buy their leathers with "MasterCard."
 
But, what is missing; regardless if Gay, Bi-sexual, Heterosexual and or Lesbian--is giving back to the community.  The bake sales, the leather swap (a good time to get into some other guy's pants without sex (chuckles)), clear out the unused whips and toys and keep movement in the community and reunite.  Fund raising as to help a brother or sister recover losses and or help with their needs; for example Papa to some, Master Doug Harris had a health issue and now after years of helping others, it is time we can help him back.  This spirit is what I miss so much.  Trigger, the human equine who is known in the pony circles is in need now.  The spirit of giving back of our salad days in leather, isn't there anymore.  Nobody can be bothered mentality.  Another thing missing in the heterosexual community et.al.; is the sense of brotherhood/sisterhood in the Gay Leather Community; they don't have this 'Eastcoast-Westcoast' rivalry.  I will say though, drama will exist everywhere as well as the politics within all the communities but, some heterosexual groups don't drop it all when the alarm bells ring and help is asked for.  I do see such in the Gay Leather Community, especially when you have leadership that remembers how it was and what they have witnessed.
 
Giving an example; a lass was transferred from the Tidewater area of Virginia and needed a few hands to help.  Help was asked for, not a one from their BDSM group showed.  Got up here to the area near me,  help was asked for in the BDSM heterosexual group--nobody showed.  I asked a couple of Gay friends in the M/s lifestyle. Other than the lass' Master, a couple of Gay Masters and a M/s couple that lived close and I came to help.  All there, identified as Masters or slaves.  Not one Dom Male or Female or submissive showed.  This is what is the difference to me.  True--people regardless of roles are what is important, as well as their 'spirit of intent.'  But--this is an example of community!
 
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 
 
 
 

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/2/2006 8:26:56 AM   
TndrSdst


Posts: 7
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings LadyHugs,

Just a short note to say Thank You.... There are others who have traveled the Road the Hard way. I started Back in the Late 70's myself.  The time of earning your Leathers.  Oh how I would love to send a few people thru  the old ways..... However there are still a few Houses that follow the older ways....
I am always pleased to meet a fellow Dominant who has earned thier Leathers.  Take care.. Till LAter then..

Flogginly Yours,
TndrSdst

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/2/2006 8:35:04 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TndrSdst
Greetings LadyHugs,

Just a short note to say Thank You.... There are others who have traveled the Road the Hard way. I started Back in the Late 70's myself.  The time of earning your Leathers.  Oh how I would love to send a few people thru  the old ways..... However there are still a few Houses that follow the older ways....
I am always pleased to meet a fellow Dominant who has earned thier Leathers.  Take care.. Till LAter then..

Flogginly Yours,
TndrSdst

I thought you guys went through the "Hard Way," at least in part, so that youngins like myself wouldn't have it quite so hard and have to go through the shame and the pain and the hiding and the popularity contests that you had to endure?

You're coming off as pretty annoyed and resentful that the culture has changed- that what you worked for has actually come to pass to a certain extent.

Granted it's very typical for every generation to be annoyed at the younger one and complain about how we have it so easy and we have no respect for the previous generation...but I don't see much respect for OUR generation, and I can tell you that we really don't have it "easy."

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(in reply to TndrSdst)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/2/2006 8:45:13 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TndrSdst

Greetings LadyHugs,

Just a short note to say Thank You.... There are others who have traveled the Road the Hard way. I started Back in the Late 70's myself.  The time of earning your Leathers.  Oh how I would love to send a few people thru  the old ways..... However there are still a few Houses that follow the older ways....
I am always pleased to meet a fellow Dominant who has earned thier Leathers.  Take care.. Till LAter then..

Flogginly Yours,
TndrSdst



Let's not look upon that past as "the good ole days" as if it were nirvana.  The scene was not pansexual and inclusive as it tends to be today and heterosexuals and women were not always very welcome (still, rightly or wrongly, many gay leather groups are exclusive in that regard).  Often time, making contact with other S/M enthusiasts meant answering anonymous personal ads in the back of magazines.  Bondage/discipline and power exchange relationships were only beginning to emerge and were far from commonplace.  Educational material was almost non-existent. 
 
In many respects, it was the stone age and not something to pine for.
 
John
 
P.S. - Other than a very few broad generalizations, there was no such thing as "the old ways".  There were no coherent protocols, customs, etc. that were common throughout the scene.

< Message edited by Rover -- 11/2/2006 9:04:51 AM >

_____________________________

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Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to TndrSdst)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Master/Dom difference - 11/2/2006 8:53:19 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear TndrSdst,
 
Thank you for your kind words.
 
True, there are a few "Houses" that follow the old ways. 
 
I circulated in the Gay Leather circles for a long period before entering the Heterosexual BDSM circles.  It was awkward for me coming from high protocol and in-house daily protocol, to a heterosexual community that had few protocols at all.  It was like going to a State Dinner to a picnic. 
 
The need to understand as one of those who 'earned leathers' or had the experience of 'earning leathers,' is that, although one Guard passed the torch to another generation, (us) and we in a sense are Guards also, the task is finding those willing to accept the torch and become their generation's Guard.  It is folly to think that our ways can be forced upon the masses, to which has caused our current Guards to remain rather passive until we're approached.  It was the old way anyway.  Those who feel their calling will seek out the Guards and only then can the Guards pass on all they have; as to allow that student and future Guard to carry on and maintain a chain per se to the M/s, D/s and S&M history.
 
Perhaps, what is misunderstood in this current 'them or us' mentality;
is that everybody has a history.  Some history is lived by the standards of the past and some do not.  Although others practice the M/s, D/s and S&M mechanically, the ones from the "House systems" and those from the Gay Leather MC/Military veins; practice not only the mechanics but, also the meanings behind the mechanics of it.  Perhaps seeing the two differently, would be to see technical correct whip work and a whip master artisticly making their whips speak, work and sing for them.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to TndrSdst)
Profile   Post #: 60
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