RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator

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RedSavageSlave -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 7:53:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gardenbluebird Treat this as a warning - nothing more. No matter how wise and smart you think you are you still have weaknesses and vulnerabilities that can be exploited. Learn what they are. Learn how to defend yourself. I thought that my intelligent, education, logical throughts, and experience was enough to defend me from such a problem. I was wrong. You might be too. By this statement we should trust no one.. you did not find out all of this until 10 months into the relationship. How long should someone stay in a relationship with someone before feeling safe? If "intelligent, educated, logical persons" cannot figure it out before becoming this deeply involved in something... I am sorry this happened to you. Truly I am. I am glad that you are getting the support you were obviously seeking in your posts. But to serve as a warning? I dont really see it happening. People are going to do what people are going to do and all lessons will no doubt be learned in hindsight. In which case this post becomes little more than an "I told you so". I guess my question to you would be.. after your experience.. following your own "warning"... what will you do next time to see that this doesnt happen again?

mnottertail -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 7:53:27 AM)
Youse lay your dollar on the table and youse takes your chances. There is no larger question to be answered here, I am afraid. The reason for all this is, because you were there................ Sir Edmund Hillary (and Tensing Norgay)

crouchingtigress -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 8:02:54 AM)
MzTaz : Brilliant.... quote: the more privacy a person demands the more I question why. Missturbation : you are so right about us getting used to it....and yet it is totally devastating when it happens to you. we do not make the leap from cheaters to murderers, but it not that big a leap if you really think about the nature of sexual disease in todays day and age, at the least it should manslaughter should some one die from a cheaters deceitful sexual exploits.... and boy are we quick to blame the victim..."you should have seen it coming" we lovingly explain (myself included) but the truth is i do not think you can see it till you have experienced it. we hear all the time about "dead beat dads", the term sounds a little cute even, but the reality of a child growing up unloved, and unsupported is a world beyond pain...and the repercussions are not measurable. its amazing how commonplace these devastating events are and how immune we have become to them. (again myself included) *great tag line btw kiss* good to see you...**

missturbation -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 8:10:41 AM)
Missturbation : you are so right about us getting used to it....and yet it is totally devastating when it happens to you. Definately - i've been there. and boy are we quick to blame the victim..."you should have seen it coming" we lovingly explain (myself included) but the truth is i do not think you can see it till you have experienced it. Generally yes. Although without knowing all the facts and both sides its very hard to decifer if the victim should bare some of the blame. Elaborating on the above deciding where blame lies we dont know all the facts in this case of 'predator' here in this thread or any other post. A woman scorned can be a vindictive thing and we have to take into account to that the 'predator' in question is not here to answer the allegations. *great tag line btw kiss* good to see you...** good to see u 2 hugs

Morrigel -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 8:13:46 AM)
Just an aside--I prefer to use the word "predator" rather than "abuser" in situations like this and many others. To me, defining someone as a "predator" is less about the type of damage they do--i.e., he/she is only a predator if they rape and kill--but more about the level of real emotional involvement they have with the victim, and the amount of personal suffering is involved. To me, an "abuser" is someone who, although they can be incredibly harmful and insidious, has a great emotional investment with his/her victim. Often, "abusers", when they DO lose their control/domination over the victim, will react with passionate fury, grief, and insane manipulation. They can become psychotic stalkers, among other things, refusing to let go of the power they had over the victim. They drag their heels over divorces, they try to undermine future relationships, they burn the house down on the way out the door--anything to continue to exercise power somehow, to keep doing some kind of ongoing harm in the victim's life, to keep causing pain and damage. Sometimes they will even do things detrimental to themselves in order to do this. To them, the victim is special--and harming the victim fulfills an emotional need. A predator, by contrast, has no emotional investment in anyone but himself/herself. They coldly calculate, lie and deceive, hit and run, and then vanish very easily. They may enjoy their power and they may get a thrill from doing others harm--sometimes great harm--but it is rarely personal and they rarely view their victims as special, or even as individuals really. The victim is just another mark, regardless of what sort of harm they are targeted for--rape, death, a con job, etc.. There isn't a wolf in the world who has a personal vendetta against one particular deer. He just picks the one that moves the slowest. --M

crouchingtigress -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 8:27:23 AM)
LOD it is painful to see you defending yourself on this one. i think it is just an issue of sematics, you are not happy with the word preditor, and to be honest i do see your point because there are two deffinitons one where one needs intentionalty for. i am using the other one "one who attacks prey" and if this has ever happened to you, you do feel attacked: you feel blind sided, and gut punched. quote: *Predator (again) infers pre-disposition and fore thought of knowledge and fore thought of actrion* something occurred to me though, maybe you are using red as a way of having your text stand out from my text, instead of as a way to denote an angry, frustrated intonation, as i originally thought. if so i am happy to introduce you to the quote button....see the little balloon next to the ABC check mark...click on that you will get quote and unquote brackets displayed, and then simply copy and paste what ever text you want to in between the two brackets.

crouchingtigress -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 8:31:13 AM)
Morrigel: wow you are so smart...i am in awe of your insight and articulation on this subject.

Wildfleurs -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 8:32:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gardenbluebird My ex-husband was a rat and I thought I had learned how to spot one. That experience is why I paid attention to the evidence and got out quickly. What he took advantage of was my limited time and the fact that I am tired and in need of TLC. I'm a little late to this thread, and this point may have already been raised (I've only read the first page). But have you considered within yourself a pattern of being attracted to a particular kind of guy. If it happens once I wouldn't have mentioned it, but you also described your ex-husband as a rat, so it may be a pattern (I'm sure I'm going to be told there is no pattern, judging by the way you've described him as a predator and taken no responsibility for any personal issues that may have made you ripe for the plucking so to speak). C~

angelic -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 8:36:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gardenbluebird Perhaps it made him feel smart to outsmart an intelligent woman. Perhaps it feeds his ego to think that women love him. It doesn't seem to me that he cared one whit about your intelligence or your ego, you were simply another in a long line. Easy to manipulate and vulnerable. There was no real emotion on his side, just a well-practiced skill, honed to perfection.

Wildfleurs -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 8:37:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Morrigel A predator, by contrast, has no emotional investment in anyone but himself/herself. They coldly calculate, lie and deceive, hit and run, and then vanish very easily. They may enjoy their power and they may get a thrill from doing others harm--sometimes great harm--but it is rarely personal and they rarely view their victims as special, or even as individuals really. The victim is just another mark, regardless of what sort of harm they are targeted for--rape, death, a con job, etc.. I can't see how that definition of a predator fits a guy who just fucks around (which is what happened in this situation). C~

Morrigel -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 8:41:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress Morrigel: wow you are so smart...i am in awe of your insight and articulation on this subject. Many thanks, but it's really just experience and training rather than any particular virtue on my part. Certain subjects--aggression, dominance, victimization, etc.--are part of my school studies and my volunteer work. Patterns are not hard to spot once you have to look at them every day, from a totally non-personal, clinical perspective. It's a hell of a lot harder to be "smart" when you're personally involved... --M

Morrigel -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 8:49:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WildfleursI can't see how that definition of a predator fits a guy who just fucks around (which is what happened in this situation). Because he has done it repeatedly, because he does it intentionally, because he is aware that his actions cause others emotional (and in the case of unwanted pregnancy, personal) harm, because he either does not care how his victims feel or enjoys the fact that they feel bad, and because, quite honestly, he is putting enough effort into this that the lies and manipulation in and of themselves are much more complicated than having more sex with just one woman would be. Ergo, the sex is not the end in and of itself. The lies and the manipulation also serve a purpose, fulfill a need. I am sorry to say this, but this was a grown man we were discussing, not a 16-year-old boy. There is only so much "accidental" harm you can countenance from a person this age. After a certain point, people become responsible not only for the things they do but the things they don't do--including little things like thinking before they act. A man this age who abandons a pregnant woman is not just someone who "fucks around". Guys who just want to "fuck around" get a vasectomy so that this sort of thing doesn't happen--if "fucking around" is their only agenda, that's the way to limit risk and repurcussions, is it not? Similarly, I am highly suspect of people who think that fucking around is only about physical gratification. There is always something more to it than that; there are enough people in casual affairs or successful poly relationships to prove that no one HAS to handle things this way in order to have sex with multiple partners. --M

RedSavageSlave -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 9:01:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs quote: ORIGINAL: Morrigel A predator, by contrast, has no emotional investment in anyone but himself/herself. They coldly calculate, lie and deceive, hit and run, and then vanish very easily. They may enjoy their power and they may get a thrill from doing others harm--sometimes great harm--but it is rarely personal and they rarely view their victims as special, or even as individuals really. The victim is just another mark, regardless of what sort of harm they are targeted for--rape, death, a con job, etc.. I can't see how that definition of a predator fits a guy who just fucks around (which is what happened in this situation). C~ I was actually waiting for someone else to mention this.. I told my sis.. if this was a vanilla relationship, what we are talking about is someone who see others behind the gf's back and so he got one girl knocked up and isnt paying child support.. yes its a crime.. but I am not seeing where this is a pattern as an intentional goal. I also have a problem with the fact that she states that she was happy with the status quo for ten months.. If this guy would just call himself poly he would probably be pretty highly sought out seeing as how he managed to keep her happy for this long and still supposedly maintain other relationships at the same time. Her biggest complaint is that he cheated on her..all the rest is just fluff.

Wildfleurs -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 9:07:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Morrigel Because he has done it repeatedly, because he does it intentionally, because he is aware that his actions cause others emotional (and in the case of unwanted pregnancy, personal) harm, because he either does not care how his victims feel or enjoys the fact that they feel bad, and because, quite honestly, he is putting enough effort into this that the lies and manipulation in and of themselves are much more complicated than having more sex with just one woman would be. It seems like he's using just enough lies to covertly have multiple sex with multiple people and thats about it. As for getting women pregnant - there are multiple forms of contraception available to grown women (if you are going to emphasize that the guy is a grown adult, I think it needs repeating that these women are obviously grown adults). If my memory serves me correct the feminists movement in the US was about women taking reproductive control and responsibility for their body. There are ways to prevent getting pregnant if one wants to prevent it. Or I'll just say it more clearer - for him to get multiple women pregnant required those multiple women to either be to stupid to not know contraceptive use 101 or they actually wanted to get pregnant, but did not think about putting up any actual protections/legal barriers (ie marriage) to actually see how dedicated or serious he was about having a baby. It sounds like a fairly typical episode of Maury Povich, I gotta say. C~

nikaa -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 9:12:46 AM)
RedSavage, Perhaps she was was happy with the status quo simply because she was not seeing the reality of the situation. Often times people hide, lie and deceive to keep their partners happy with the status quo other times we don't want to see the truth. Either way, in my opinion she was not a mutual participant or an informed participant. I beleive that regardless of the lifestyle you choose to live in (ie. vanilla or D/s) that there are those who can, will, and do prey on the mental, physical, financial, and emotional needs of others. In my eyes those people are predators. Edited to add: Wildfleurs I agree and this was my only issue with the OP and the other women involved. As adults we all make choices about the relationships we enter into. We all have a responsiblity to protect ourselves. If STD's or pregnancy is a concern why have unprotected sex? (Remember not all STD's show up immediately even with blood work)

crouchingtigress -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 9:24:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs I can't see how that definition of a predator fits a guy who just fucks around (which is what happened in this situation). C~ Great first post, yes it had been raised but i dont think that anyone could ever belabor the points of self responsibility and knowing themselves. on your second post you yourself say that you have not read the whole thread, but if you had, you would see a pattern of behavior that is indeed predatory. Also saying that a cheater is just "someone who fucks around" is to me, society's way of casually dismissing harmful, and in the case of unwanted pregnancy's and AIDS, socially disastrous social behavior. lets face it, if you get in to a relationship knowing that you are already in a relationship, and tell that person you are being monogamous, and using no condoms, then there is a screw loose some where. where is your compassion for your partner? what are your values? why are you uncomfortable with commitment , investment, integrity, and honesty? what drives you to need so much external validation? why do you feel fucking around is validation? these folks are often legends in their own mind, and exhibit sociopathic behavior: a total disconnect of real emotions and empathy. if you know any of these sorts of folks ill bet you will not have to dig very deep to find a trail of broken lives in their wake... society used to excuse peeping toms as harmless perverts, but have now are starting to become aware that this behavior is harmful and escaltory. one day we will learn to see that a grown man "who fucks around" behavior is also harmful and sadly escaltory.

Morrigel -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 9:32:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs If my memory serves me correct the feminists movement in the US was about women taking reproductive control and responsibility for their body. There are ways to prevent getting pregnant if one wants to prevent it. And as a man there are ways to avoid getting MULTIPLE women pregnant, if you wish to prevent it. And yet, somehow, Mr. Fucksalot didn't see fit to do so. He deliberately created a situation in which he had much more information than any of his partners, and thus much more power--only he knew how many people he was sleeping with. Because he had much more power, he automatically had much more responsibility. "Gee, I was just playin'" doesn't cut it. Just a reminder: when a woman believes she is in love with a man and that they have an exclusive, committed relationship, protecting herself from possible harm (like pregnancy and disease) is not her primary concern. This is why the man's basic dishonesty is such an enormous problem here. A woman who is given a free choice to have casual sex or not with a man who will seek and maintain multiple partners behaves VERY differently from one who regards herself as a man's sole partner. "One and only", for a naturally monogamous person, connotes a very different level of sexual and emotional commitment AND risk than "one of many". This is why the lies and the manipulation become a central issue. I am not a sex negative or poly-negative person. I am a person who regards lies and harm as negative, and when these things are done deliberately and repeatedly, I don't consider them "just fluff". --M

gardenbluebird -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 9:56:27 AM)
fast reply. Not intended for anyone in particular Have we all forgotten the basic mottos? Safe, Sane, Consentual He was not being safe with either emotions or bc, He was not being sane because he didn't care who he infected with what. He was not being consentual because he didn't give me an opportunity to consent to what he was actually doing. And don't forget RACK - Risk Aware Consentual Kink Yes it was kink, but I was certainly not aware of the risk that he was putting me at. Neither were the other women. There is no excuse for such a basic disregard for the safety and dignity of ones partner. A dominant is in a position of trust, and it was abused. It was abused not just once, but multiple times, with multiple submissives. I am actually quite surprised that the good Dominants and Masters here are not outraged at the abuse of the beautiful power that makes BDSM such a wonderful thing. If you cannot depend on your partner with whom you work to build trust then who can you depend on? I am not saying that I was not at least partially at fault for missing this. However if someone intentionally sets out to deceive it can be hard to defend against.

crouchingtigress -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 10:01:54 AM)
who is this post aimed at GB? because for my money morrigel was in your corner.

tade -> RE: Why I was selected as a target for a predator (11/4/2006 10:13:05 AM)
We spend a good deal of time in the wilderness, not cozy camping in the woods just of the road, but out where you are part of the food chain whether you like it or not. My theory has always been if you act like food, then you are food. Same goes here. To the OP why were you selected? Because something about you gave the guy the opportunity to use you. Don't go looking for some grand explination to the mystery, you won't find it. You were used because you were usable. Hard fact of life but a fact none the less. Next time don't act like food. Be a predator, not prey.

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