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LordODiscipline -> RE: Question to A Master (11/17/2006 6:30:43 AM)
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ORIGINAL: BrutalAntipathy
LordoDiscipline: Firstly, the only place I came close to insulting you personally beforehand was in telling you to learn math. And since you are still insisting on perverting and misinterpriting what the term 24/7 TPE really means, I would continue to advise that.
My name is Joseph.. you can call me Mr. Howe.
You demand things of others (*an unrealistic and assuredly unrequited expectation - to be sure) and then state that you do not have to - and, insult them again...
Which part of this is escaping you?
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I said that I was not sure of the origin of the term 24/7, but you, like several others here, have decided to ignore what I write and attempt pathetically to belittle me. So for the record. here is the origin of that term. The term 24/7 TPE appears to have been created in a rival community to this one whose name I will withhold.
I thought you stated that it was defined by Eso on his posting to his web site? Now you are saying that we must trust you in your research and that we are wrong (all of us individually, because I fdo not agree with most of the people with their opinions here either)....
Something tells me that you are being a tad unreasonable here, Opie!
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The person credited with coining the term is a gentleman named Steven Davis, and was used in the mid 90's.
I was using this term in the 1980's in the military and, learned it from people who were using it in the 1970's - and, have seen it used on news reports for the history of the Vietnam War... so Mr. Davis must not be the originator. check it again.
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Since I am using the ENTIRE TERM in its ENTIRE CONTEXT, your search for the origins of a PIECE of the ENTIRE TERM is completely off base.
I am not sure how I would be using a "part of the term" in my responses - I am using the term "24/7" - that is not really divisable (if you look - 7 really does not go into 24 well [;)])
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How can I emphasise it enough that the term MUST be taken COMPLETELY? But hell, lets play this silly, pointless game, if just to show how unreasonable you are being.
Well - you are being irrrational...
So, I am not sure how "unreasonable" you are considering me - as that is subjective - and, you are really no longer remembering what is being said *you are attributing things to me I never said oir inferred*.
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Since you insist on seperating the term in order to take it out of context
Again - I did not do this... not sure why you would say that.
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...lets seperate something of yours as well. You called me a purist. Now the letters you used were derived from the Phonecian language.
24/7 are numbers... makes this rather a specious statement.
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They did not have the equivalent of the letters U and I, so we are safe to ignore these, reducing the word to prst. The Phonecian letter for P looks like the number 7 and means mouth. The letter R in Phonecian sort of looks like a backward P or the number 4 and means head. The letter S is a t with 3 cross bars and means fish. The letter T looks like a cross and means hook. So you are calling me a mouth head fish hook?
What does this have to do with this debate? Actually it has as much to do with this debate as does your insisting on seperating 24/7 from TPE, then claiming that the term 24/7 is misapplied.
Show me where the letters "TPE" are associated with 24/7 first.. then we can talk - but, until you do - you are blowing the proverbial smoke up my rear... it tickles, but is really not condusive to an intelligent conversation.
I can make up facts to... they will not make any more sense but, they will definitively be more fun,.
Did you know that Bullwinkle J. Moose is the president of the TPE Society of America? Yup - I know because I read it.
I wrote it down and I read it.
I believe everything I read. [:D]
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We are not looking over a military letter here, we are talking about the term created by a fellow on an alternative lifestyle board, and that term is 24/7 TPE. Not 24/7, not TPE, but the combined effect of 24/7 TPE. When you are unable to misleadingly seperate the two, the context and meaning of the term is apparent, and that meaning obviously does not mean " ready to be called into service from a distance ". It means exactly what it looks like, and claiming that it has any other meaning is just downright dishonest. If you are going to break it down, why didn't you go even further and point out that 2 does not mean 4, and 2 and 4 does not mean 7? After all, the numbers 2, 4, and 7 existed long before any military adopted the term 24/7. You are trying to avoid the actual debate by employing rhetorical sleight of hand to distract people from it. I know that I wax repetative, but I feel like a teacher trying to convey a simple concept to a group of particularly slow and uncooperative children. I am forced to repeat myself because the hostile audience continues to pick and choose parts of an entire term in order to pretend the term doen't mean what it so obviously does.
Dude - you are ranting and peeing in the wind... and, starting to get everyone wet.
Once again - you cannot mold the facts to fit your argument.
The term 24/7 is (until I am proven wrong) of military origin.
Someone may have usurped it to use in leather - but, they are not the final arbitter of what is and is not 24/7 - just as you are not.
If you want to get some facts and place them in the postings you are writing - that is one thing - but, thus far, you are simply regurgitating things found on web sites with out attribution.
And, if you ARE going to use something from someone like ESO, then for the sake of clarity - VERIFY HIS STATEMENTS>
Much like you - he is irrational and tends to fir the world to his reality, vice finding the facts and adapting to it.
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And since you think to lecture me in logic, I think that I will point out a flaw you have made with it. You asked for an, and I quote:
" authoritative sourse of the definition of 24/7 which is not someone who is prostelyzing and justifying their lives which does not include codiciles... "
Well, nice straw man argument you have constructed there. Unfortunately a straw man is a logical fallacy. In essence you have set forth the proposition that any source which disagrees with you is not an authrotative source. Logical fallacy at it's worst. It is also an impossible task to accomplish. As much as I hate to break this to you, there are NO authoritative sources for BDSM in general or 24/7 TPE in specific. You cannot obtain a doctorate in Ass-Slapology at UCLA, MIT, or Texas A & M. Writing a book on the subject does not necessarliy make one an authority on the subject either. The closest we can get would be a general authority on the subject. With that in mind, lets look at a hypothetical scenario:
Master Itchycoo is a well known Shibari expert. He was born and raised in Japan, and has practiced BDSM rich in Japanese style protocol and ritual for most of his adult life. You decide to approach this gentleman and ask that he instruct you in shibari. Being the benevolent figure that he is, he agrees. He also informs you that he is quite experienced with caning, and asks if you would care to compare notes on it as well. So from this you may be safe in viewing him as majoring in shibari and minoring in cane. But do you ask him to instruct you in Gorean protocol? Of course you don't. If you want that, go to someone that lives the Gorean lifestyle.
Now, based on this, it is fairly safe to say that if you want information on 24/7 TPE, you don't go ask Master Pompous that has a degree in psychology and knows how swing a bullwhip. You would ask someone that lives or has lived in a 24/7 TPE relationship. And, just like Master Itchycoo above who, should you be tying a knot wrong, looks over your shoulder and tells you so, only a person that has actually engaged in 24/7 TPE can with any degree of authority whatsoever, look at what you are doing, and say " No, that isn't 24/7 TPE. It is close, but no cigar. " With that, it is not only safe, but entirely within my right to tell people that the on again, off again, whenever convenient thing that they erroniously call 24/7 TPE is absolutely, definately, positively NOT 24/7 TPE! I have been into clubs before and seen one person walk up to someone and say " Dude, you are swinging that cane too hard to be hitting with the center of it. It is going to wrap around and eventually break her skin. " The man making that observation was correct in making that correction, and was obviously experienced with the cane. I have also had the misfortune of being in on a conversation where a young man started informing a small group of Goreans that he was " classically trained in Gor, and had been through the entire progression of training from slave to master. " When the Goreans ( and myself ) finally stopped laughing, one of them informed the guy that he was describing Old Guard, not Gor. How is this in any shape, form, or fashion any different in me telling the " at our convenience " power exchangers that they are not 24/7 TPE?
Blah Blah Blah...much ado about nothing... Get a source. Get a life - and, stop pissing on the entire thing... you are not making sense, just ranting with the hope that someone will believe you in some way.
My statement was designed to get you to do some research - apparently you did and did not like what you found as you only allude to it here - and, offer nothing substansive by way of an argument - only sophist statements, insults, and barely intelligable dribble.
Are you Eso? (he did that once - contacted me with another name in the hope that he could manipulate me into doing something for him...).
I only ask because this is the same sort of silly idiocy that he would do in order to DEMAND that people believe him...
But, no - he has been through this round before.... and, he seldom strays from forums that he cannot control for obvious reasons...
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Now lets talk insults.
Oy - man, you started with this whole line of BS - "You insulted me more than I insulted you" - yaddah yaddah yaddah.
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I am willing to bet that some people consider my calling them fluff bunnies and weekend ass slappers to be insulting. In all honesty I would have to agree. But have you ever considered that people telling me that what I call 24/7 TPE doesn't exist is insulting?p
You are rationalizing your poor behavior again...
"I am not so bad - because people insult me by not admitting I am right - and, not following my opinion on how they are worshipping the false god of an errant 24/7"
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After all, you are just saying that my slave and I don't exist. Do you not think it insulting to mock and ridicule this lifestyle by implying that we have to wear leather all of the time? Do you not find it both hypocritical and insulting to say how sick someone has to be to live it?
I find I do not agree with how the the Menonites live... no computers???
But, I seldom drive to PA to rail them for their ludditism. I would be "pissing in the wind"
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And last but not least, lets look at another aspect of it. Bear with me here, because we are about to scurry back into the field of hypothesis for a minute, just to convey the magnatude of this particular insult.
Take a guy that fishes off a dock every Friday evening to relax. Lets say that he decides one day to walk into a bar near the dock, a bar frequented by career fishermen. After a few drinks, the fellow begins to compare his tiny excursions at fishing to theirs, and proudly declares himself a fisherman " just like you guys! ". Several of the fishermen, guys that spend 8 months a year on a boar at sea, are going to piss themselves from laughter at this ridiculous comparison.
Yes - and notice how many of the people in the bar are not that fisherman...
"Welcome to the Collarme bar - Can we take your order?"
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Another scenario. A guy walks into a bar, and in this case it happens to be a gay & lesbian frequented bar. He talks with a couple of ladies at the bar, then announces that, since he has licked a carpet or two, he is a lesbian. The women calmly explain to him that he doesn't have the right plumbing to be a lesbian. But not to be outdone, he decides to insult them, telling them that there is no such thing as a woman that doesn't like the sausage, that none of them are really couples because the law does not allow it. The women are going to be outraged to say the least.
And one last scenario. Take a suburban Caucasian kid. He listens to rap, he wears baggy pants and a basketball jersey, he talks the Hollywood ghetto talk. Now, drop this kid down in the middle of an inner city slum. Have him approach a group of Crips or Bloods and tell them that he is Gangsta. You know what will happen? I'll tell you what will happen, you will soon have on your hands one very dead, badly mutilated cracker, thats what will happen. Some people of a particular lifestyle will laugh at poseurs and wannabes, and others will flat out kill them. My position is somewhere between the two. I will try to educate them, but failing that, will certainly ridicule them if they are too narrow minded to be corrected. After all, they are insulting me to begin with due to their posturing, false claims, and snide comments when I try and correct them. You people insult the hell out of me, my slave, and everyone else that actually is 24/7 TPE when you first claim to be it, then having failed to live up to the criteria of twenty four hour a day, seven days a week total power exchange, begin mocking and insulting us by telling us that we don't exist, that nobody ever does that, etc.
Unrequited expectations once again dashed in the cold water of a reality bath....
Poop happens... buck up me lado.
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Several people have posted on this thread professing that they live this lifestyle and actually fit the criteria. The rest of you are calling these people liars by insisting that it doesn't exist.
I have not once stated "it does not exist"...
I live leather 24/7...
For all you know and for all I have said about my relationship and y means of living (in this thread and on this board), I live it more stringently than you do.
And, it might even meet your specifications... I am only stating that 'You are not the arbiter of things leather - and, you are pissing in the wind."
I do believe some stated opinions on this are out of line with reality... but, it does not matter.
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Sure, I have called people liars here too. But why? Because they ADMIT that they do not fit the bill of 24/7 TPE, but STILL insist that they ARE! So I am not insulting these people. I am calling them what they are, liars.
People can lie to themselves and still be insulted by being called things... jsut human nature... but, you know that and simply choose to rationalize the behavior away as being your "bad ass self"... interesting take on a mentally healthy life.
'I am "ok" because I can insult the people who are not "ok" and that is "ok".'
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Now, you mock Eso as well as me, but you have yet to offer ANY counter argument to his and my lifestyle.
No - because that is not what I am talking about.
I live 'my' life to 'my' specifications.
I have no need to live it to someone's faulted argument of perfection or to describe it to some psuedo-intellectual ranting about "right" on a web board and unable to accept the fact that other people hold beliefs outside of my own.
I am living my life.... and, quite happy with it.
You are making absolute "this is the way it is and anyone who is not doing it this way is wrong" statements -
I am telling you to "put up or shut up" - show me the money, hunny bunny!" Prove it
And, you are floundering about (that means: "Flopping about logically" because it cannot be proven as it is an "entirely subjective statements and personal opinion".
And, you cannot accept that - so you are lashing out at everyone as though that will make it "ok" - but, the fact is - it won't...
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You claim that his position is unsupportable, you give nothing except bluff and insult by way of discrediting it, yet still have the nerve to accuse ME of employing faulty logic!
You have been trying to prove his arguments (not even your own) - for days... and, have failed miseraably...
I do not have t prove anything - you are diggging a hole deep enough for all of us to bury after offering condolences.
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I have offered a source material which you scorn but fail to address. As of yet, you have failed to offer ANY source material by way of reference, making the score 1-0 in my favor on the credibility scale.
You have offered nothing credible... only hinted at it - or invoked the "Eso" logic.
If you want a debate - get some REAL sources and list them.
Not "it is elsewhere", "it is ESO" or "it is my belief"
(but the fact is, you have lost credibility with me - as you are not taking this seriously at all - simply hoping to toss out a bunch of half truths and hoping it will bury everyone into silence giving you some "tacit victory" in a debate that you do not have a stake in... )
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Secondly, I have offered my own words as a self confessed participant in this lifestyle, making it now 2-0 in my favor. Oh, but wait, a couple of others have professed living it under the definition that the ENTIRITY OF THE TERM CONVEYS, placing the score at 4-0.
Wow.... this is a contest - no one told me.
And, who elected you score keeper??
How about I get ten points for rationality?
There you go - I am ahead... Woooh Hoooh! (Everyone do the 'wave'!!)
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How is the taste of piss now, LOD? Surely the class 5 hurricane has forced enough of it down your gaping mouth for you to answer that.
LMAO...
OK - you got me spewing coffe all ove the monitor with that one!!
I am dieing here!! AHHAAAAAAA LOL...
You really seem to think I care what you think about me or my beliefs (which I have not stated)... awfully odd of you.
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So, if you CAN find fault in the logic, put your cards on the table and do so. Otherwise you are starting to look like a sickly peacock shaking his feathers in a futile effort to attract the attention of a foul. And another big shock, LOD, I came to this lifestyle NOT as a student of Eso's! I read an essay of his because I was looking for an alternative take on the term. I was living this way before I had ever heard of either Eso or the term 24/7 TPE.
You are a theorist withoutn basis for a real life comparrison..
I know a lot of folks who (I am betting) live the life more stringently than you do - and, a lot more who do not.
And, they are happy people... they do not care whether you exist or not or how you define 24/7 - just as I do not.
Interestingly enough, I am empathetic to your rantings (mind set) , as I have seen it before (sincerely, you should talk to someone about it - but, you won't as you are too damed sure there is nothing wrong) - but, your personal assurance that 'you are right' will not make your thoughts any more valid or more real to those people mentioned.
Rather silly of you to think that they will.
~J
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