RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (Full Version)

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meatcleaver -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 7:38:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

i can respect those who don't like second hand smoke but i can't respect those that say it's okay to take away someone's rights with no consideration at all to some viable alternatives....and there are alternatives to this 'all non smoking bars' issue as i pointed out above.  And hey, there could be more that i am not thinking about right at this momemt but i'm sure if we all got creative for a minute, we could come up with some other ideas.
 
It is the same idea of legalizing prostitution.  An adult female wants to charge money for sex.....a willing guy wants to pay for it.  So what?  Prostitution may not be at the top of my moral standards but when you have 2 consenting adults, who am i to say what they do should be illegal?
 


I think this is the point. The people who want to ban smoking in bars want to ban it in places they wouldn't go even if they were none smoking bars. Like the idiots here that want to ban smoking in coffee shops where the whole point is to smoke and you just wouldn't go into them if you didn't smoke.

It does have similarities with people who want to ban prostitution. Those that want to ban it wouldn't use a prostitute or so they would have you believe. It is more about puritanism than health. Prostitution is legal here as is smoking cannibis and long may it stay that way.

I don't see smokers complaining about not being able to smoke in public places or restuarants, its about people wanting to impose their position on other people who don't want their interference. Thankfully there is still some sanity and tolerance where I live and people are intelligent enough not to go in a smoking establishment or work in one if they don't want to.




Nikolette -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 7:49:18 AM)

*smokes my candy cigarette and chortles in amusement*

"least of your problems" ha ha hahahahaha....

*puff*



OP... okay so instead of bitching about your ah.. unknown to me, freedom to smoke in public, reserved constitutional right... why don't you come to Boston and exercise your freedom of assembly right downtown around the commons. Seriously it will be more successful. And if you wear some dirty awry clothes, and put out a Dunkin Donuts cup in your hand, I betcha people will put in money. Its like they are fucking PAYING to listen to your deranged tirades errrm... I mean .... rational lucid ah... opinion.

Seriously.

You could even have a gimmick. The popular one down there is "Some change or smile" you could change it to "some change or a smokers hack"

Just a suggestion.
[:)]




candystripper -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 7:56:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Because eating that Krispy Kreme donut doesn't affect OTHER PEOPLE'S health.  Smoking in a restaurant does.

You really didn't have to have to that explained to you, did you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Second, how in the world can we consider it acceptable for government to dictate what LEGAL activity can be allowed in our private business?  Health???  We can chow down on all the sugarlard confections at Krispy Kreme we want as long as we don't smoke?  How is that looking out for our health?



Lam, i respectfully disagree.  Obseity affects others in insidious ways.  It limits the obese person's ability to function as a worker, a parent, a participant in their community, etc.  It drives up health insurance costs.  And it is a growing epidemic here in the US.
 
As to 2nd hand smoke, W/we have have this disagreement before.  *i* feel the business owner should get to make the decision and *i* feel there are effective ways to filter air to remove smoke.
 
Finally, You did not address my theory that smoking was elevated to a issue of significant proportion because thre constituency felt they had no control over other, much more important arenas of T/their lives, such as crime and the economy.  People are scared, and s'how smokers have become the witches.  However, *i* admit my position is colored in part by the fact that *i* am one of the witches.
 
candystripper




Sinergy -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 7:58:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Because eating that Krispy Kreme donut doesn't affect OTHER PEOPLE'S health.  Smoking in a restaurant does.

You really didn't have to have to that explained to you, did you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Second, how in the world can we consider it acceptable for government to dictate what LEGAL activity can be allowed in our private business?  Health???  We can chow down on all the sugarlard confections at Krispy Kreme we want as long as we don't smoke?  How is that looking out for our health?



The problem, Lordandmaster, is that addicts generally refuse to think outside the cozy little cage of their addiction.

So you can try to explain it to them.  But the logic always circuitously comes around to "Im an addict, I cannot control myself, and you are being mean to
poor little old me because you wont let me light a coffin nail while you are
eating or drinking or dancing or trying to breathe smoke-free air."

Perhaps somebody should re-invent the scuba rebreather so the people can smoke in public without befouling everybody else's air.

Sinergy




meatcleaver -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 8:07:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

 "Im an addict, I cannot control myself, and you are being mean to
poor little old me because you wont let me light a coffin nail while you are
eating or drinking or dancing or trying to breathe smoke-free air."



You are being disingenuous here. Nobody as far has I can recollect as argued against people's right to breath smoke free air. The argument has been that there should be a right for bars where people can smoke if the owner is willing to allow it.

No one has said 'poor me, I'm an addict and I can't control myself.' I don't need you or anyone else to save me from myself. What I would like to be saved from is cancerous puritanism and political correctness.




candystripper -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 8:17:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Because eating that Krispy Kreme donut doesn't affect OTHER PEOPLE'S health.  Smoking in a restaurant does.

You really didn't have to have to that explained to you, did you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Second, how in the world can we consider it acceptable for government to dictate what LEGAL activity can be allowed in our private business?  Health???  We can chow down on all the sugarlard confections at Krispy Kreme we want as long as we don't smoke?  How is that looking out for our health?



The problem, Lordandmaster, is that addicts generally refuse to think outside the cozy little cage of their addiction.

So you can try to explain it to them.  But the logic always circuitously comes around to "Im an addict, I cannot control myself, and you are being mean to
poor little old me because you wont let me light a coffin nail while you are
eating or drinking or dancing or trying to breathe smoke-free air."

Perhaps somebody should re-invent the scuba rebreather so the people can smoke in public without befouling everybody else's air.

Sinergy


Why must air be smoke free in a dance club which is owned by S/someone who selects "smoking" as his/her policy?  Why can't there be a case-by-case decision, driven by market forces?
 
Anyway *i* suppose *i* have a craving for cigarettes, but *i* am not prostituing myself, commiting burglaries or otherwise breaking the law to feed my so-called *addiction*.  *i* think we throw the word *addiction* around to befuddle P/pl and conjure up the witchy smoker *i* spoke of earlier.
 
candystripper




Wildfleurs -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 8:20:33 AM)

quote:



Now that you have trampled the Constitution and made things worse in that venture I would like to direct your attention to a much more serious problem. Remember we need to think about the children here. OK the children.



My god I never knew that smoking in public places was in the Constitution!!

C~




subjected2006 -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 8:28:50 AM)

yes and if someone expels gas they should be fined fifty dollars..
and dont you dare  wear a scent that isnt goverment approved because someone could have an allergy to it..
you people amaze me..
smokers pay out their asses to smoke ..leave them alone..if you dont like it ..ask them not to smoke instead of
whining about it..iI have NEVER met someone who refused to put a smoke out when I have asked them to..
but no..thats right..get Uncle Sam to intervene one more time




Termyn8or -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 11:00:45 AM)

Candy;

We really should go hit a bar while we can still puff our guts out and watch people drop like flies around us.

meatcleaver;

Just where do you live, I think I want to move there.

Everybody;

OK, it wasn't just the smoking ban that prompted my rant. And it was a rant. The fact that voters pass a total smoking ban and in the very same election decide to suck us for 30 cents a pack for the arts was a bit much.

I would expect such actions from a tyrannical government seemingly filled with meglomaniacs, but the people ? The people ?

This action shows a callous disregard of others' rights by THE PEOPLE. This action shows that THE PEOPLE are totally willing to take what is not theirs, using big brother to get it.

THAT is what pisses me off. The issue isn't really smoking, it is much deeper than that. OK, you gonna pay 30 cents a pack and can't smoke anywhere. I would expect that from the government.

I think prostitution is wrong. Although some prostitutes really enjoy their work, I still think it is wrong. As an American Citizen what should I do ? Should I impel the government to impose the stiffest of penalties on prostitutes or should I simply let them be, and not use their services ?

I think that abortion is murder, plain and simple. If a Woman aborted MY son or daughter I would surely kill her without losing a wink of sleep over it. At the very least she should come to my door, point at her "condition" and say "do you want this ?". At the very least. Abortion is murder, plain and simple, and I am all for it. If neither Parent gives a damn, go right ahead. Abortion is murder, and if you are willing to murder your own kids, please do so that I don't have to gun them down in the middle of the night as they attempt to rob my house. Think of all the money you'll save not having to feed the budding psychopath for 16 years or so.

Heroin is bad, as an American Citizen I am doing my part against heroin by not using it. I have been told that it makes you a slave to it, so my informed decision was to never do heroin. Those of you who do use heroin though, I think it should be cheaper, and available in stores to legal adults. You may kill yourself with it, I simply have decided not to.

Personal responsibility is being taken away. Car insurance makes it OK for people to drive like assholes. Candy, get on I 90 at rush hour and remember that Cleveland proper has lost alot of people in the last few decades. Look at the traffic jam. It is not caused by the sheer volume of traffic like it is in a real city. It is caused by people who have to get ahead at all cost, they have to get past the car in front of them. Once they do they find they have 50 feet to get over four lanes to get to their exit. Since they can't speed up to change lanes because they allow one inch following distance for every 100 MPH they must slow down. Guess what, everyone behind them must slow down. Thus it seems to others that there are three times as many cars on the road, but it is one asshole ΒΌ mile up who fucked up and needs to get over. Of course the other assholes will not let him over, because their time is more valuable.

Because of health insurance nobody needs to think about what they eat. You can live on mallow cups and the doctor will fix it. Because of house insurance you can leave your lighter on the coffee table for toddlers to play with. Because of workman's comp you can allow or even cause dangerous conditions for your employees, as long as it makes you money.

Are you getting my drift yet ? Americans especially, have learned not to look deeper. Just look at the surface issues, not the cause. Doctors treat symptoms, they do not cure disease. And we as a people seem to be following suit.

I have stated that I might just quit smoking because of money. I can afford the two grand a year, it doesn't mean shit, but where it goes does. If I don't stop, I might slow down considerably. A pack of Winston really costs about 50 cents, the rest is taxes. These taxes are going to people who do not support nor represent me.

I totally dismiss the health aspect of smoking. I mean it. If you can't stand cigarette smoke you were not raised right, you were too sheltered. If second hand smoke kills you then the strong will survive. To use the word again : perspective. Have you ever gone camping and sat around a campfire ? Have you ever had a cookout ? What about all the toxins in the air on the fourth of July ? What about that deisel truck that just went by, did you smell it ? Did you like the smell ?

I recently hooked back up with an old friend and he brought something up not too long ago that I had totally forgotten about. We used to work out and spar a long time ago and he taught me most of what I know about the martial arts. We were sitting around, my basic Saturday night crowd and he said (referring to me) "I kicked this motherfucker in the chest across a twenty foot room, over the coffee table and into a couch, and he ran right back up and said 'do it again', so I did".

See I have had breathing problems all my life, even before I started smoking and I have this Mother who started gradually punching me in the stomach harder and harder. As a result I was able to have a 200 lb person stand on my chest as I smoked a cigarette. At age 44 I was doing it and coughed, and as a result got 5 broken ribs, not when I coughed, but when I laxed just a bit to inhale afterward. I lost my tone for a split second and it was enough.

Most people could never engage in these activities. So in a way I must agree, expecting others to be able to handle a smoking environment might be too much for them. They should also stay out of traffic jams and away from campfires and cookouts.

I would never intentionally hurt someone who is not my enemy, but just how far do I need to go to protect them ?

T




Zensee -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 11:51:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I think that abortion is murder, plain and simple. If a Woman aborted MY son or daughter I would surely kill her without losing a wink of sleep over it.



Incredible! Are you saying you have a womb? No wonder you are conflicted. Are you saying that donating a teaspoon of sperm entitles you to commit premeditated murder? 




adaddysgirl -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 1:28:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

 "Im an addict, I cannot control myself, and you are being mean to
poor little old me because you wont let me light a coffin nail while you are
eating or drinking or dancing or trying to breathe smoke-free air."



You are being disingenuous here. Nobody as far has I can recollect as argued against people's right to breath smoke free air. The argument has been that there should be a right for bars where people can smoke if the owner is willing to allow it.

No one has said 'poor me, I'm an addict and I can't control myself.' I don't need you or anyone else to save me from myself. What I would like to be saved from is cancerous puritanism and political correctness.


You are right on target meatcleaver.  i haven't seen any smoker say we think it is our right to smoke in public and the hell with you non smokers. i actually think that most smokers are very conscious of their smoking in public.  And who is saying you are being mean to me?  If anything, it's the non-smoking advocates who sound like the whiners!  lol
 
Sadly, i suppose some will just never see the bigger picture of what we are advocating here  [sm=noway.gif]
 
Hello.  my name is Daddysgirl.  i am a smoker.  i am an addict.  Poor me!  Please don't be mean to me!  [sm=river.gif]
 
LOL....what a hoot!  [:D]
 
DG




Level -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 2:05:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I think that abortion is murder, plain and simple. If a Woman aborted MY son or daughter I would surely kill her without losing a wink of sleep over it.



Incredible! Are you saying you have a womb? No wonder you are conflicted. Are you saying that donating a teaspoon of sperm entitles you to commit premeditated murder? 



I think he's saying that accepting a teaspoon of sperm does not entitle one to commit what he sees as premeditated murder.




KatyLied -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 2:22:10 PM)

quote:

I totally dismiss the health aspect of smoking. I mean it. If you can't stand cigarette smoke you were not raised right, you were too sheltered.


Are you kidding?






trannysub007 -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 6:41:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: diamonddreamlove

Ex smoker and loved it until i found i loved breathing more.  Your right does not over ride my right to breath.  My inhaler is expensive and so is the other meds i take to keep breathing when someone is smoking around me.  As a smoker i had the courtesy not to smoke around nonsmokers without their permission.  Oh and i have an autistic step son that has had autism since birth not since shots so not buying that theory.  As for more diagnosis being made of autism it is mostly because folks are becoming more aware that there are degrees of autism rather than all being severe cases.  And do NOT ever make the mistake of saying in front of me that my child is an idiot.  He has talents that most likely surpass your own and one is that he does not deliberately bait others to hurt them.  Given the choice of being with the autisitic or a smoker without courtesy then i will hang out with the autisitic.


ddl, i agree with you about people with autism often being more pleasant to be with, and, more often than not, way more intelligent than most folks. my friend's son is 27, and was developing normally until he was about 7. Then he got brain damage from lead in their backyard, and now he is autistic.
    Anyway, about smoking ... Why would you want to start in the first place?  It smells awful. i'd think the taste would be worse. There's nothing good about it really. Why whine when people try to make the environment a little more healthy?




Lordandmaster -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 7:39:55 PM)

Well, yes, I agree with that, but those are indirect effects.  I think it would be much harder to find constitutional justification for any kind of legislation that would target obesity on THOSE grounds.  But second-hand smoke directly affects anyone in the vicinity.  It's clearly a harmful chemical (edited to add: or set of chemicals), and the state has a legitimate interest in regulating it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Lam, i respectfully disagree.  Obseity affects others in insidious ways.  It limits the obese person's ability to function as a worker, a parent, a participant in their community, etc.  It drives up health insurance costs.  And it is a growing epidemic here in the US.




Emperor1956 -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 7:53:21 PM)

quote:

NakedonmyChain:  Steak and Shake went non-smoking recently.  I'm not sure if it's a chain-wide thing, or if it's just here in Lafayette.  It leaves me to ponder, though, what does one do at Steak and Shake at four in the morning if not drink gallons of coffee and chain smoke while discussing the deeper issues of life?


To hell with the non-smoking policy.  They discontinued the lime freeze!  You want something to complain about....Steak n' Shake without a LIME FUCKING FREEZE?

It is the end of the world as we know it.

E.




Lordandmaster -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 8:07:58 PM)

I've never heard of Steak & Shake (sounds like a red-state thing), but a lime freeze sounds fucking good right about now.




Zensee -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 9:16:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

I think that abortion is murder, plain and simple. If a Woman aborted MY son or daughter I would surely kill her without losing a wink of sleep over it.



Incredible! Are you saying you have a womb? No wonder you are conflicted. Are you saying that donating a teaspoon of sperm entitles you to commit premeditated murder? 



I think he's saying that accepting a teaspoon of sperm does not entitle one to commit what he sees as premeditated murder.

And, by extension, that it entitles him to take murderous revenge. It ends in the same place.




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 9:52:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
If you can't stand cigarette smoke you were not raised right, you were too sheltered.

Well I know I was raised in a 3 bedroom apartment where my mother, aunt, and grandmother all lived and smoked about 2 packs a day and never had a problem.

Until I moved to college and was away from it for awhile.  Now, I can't stand being in a moderate smoke environment for very long at all- I get serious headaches/migraines, I get nauseous and tear up.

I don't like it because it means I can't spend much time in my old home anymore, and I certainly didn't want it or even become aware of the connection until it happened quite a few times in a few different arenas.

So please, with all your other arguments, don't make one as empty as that one.




meatcleaver -> RE: RANT, a big one ! Feel free to join in. (11/14/2006 11:46:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

meatcleaver;

Just where do you live, I think I want to move there.



Amsterdam, the Netherlands. You just can't beat it, everything goes. You can blow cannibis smoke in a policeman's face here, they just don't bother you, unless you do something criminal of course.




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