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RE: Responsibility in slavery - 11/16/2006 9:54:12 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

Ok to clear things up a little what the girl did that was following orders was not really a big deal at all. It rubed people the wrong way and the thread got out of hand and the poor girl got way more then she bargend for and it really wasnt fair to her... I didnt share what it was she did because this thread really had little to do with her and was not about transgretions but rather ones willingness to exept responsability. Looking back I see her actions where really no big deal and she was right to follow her Masters orders!!! But in my own head that doesnt abdicate her of responsability well not all of it her Master needs to take respionsability too which he has! This thread was not to be about her act but more of her response to the responses she got that she did not like... My Master had his own theary about saying "Master told me to" that is a tad different then mine but Ill let him put that here if he wishes to share it.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 81

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 10:11:15 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Ok this stems from another thread...

Ok a rather green sub used the defence "I just did what Master told me"
and then got upset when one of our beloved posters (well I think she is pretty great) told her that excuse didnt fly!!

So i came in and explained that just because you are a slave doesnt mean you arent responsable for your actions

this sub then said "a good slave does as her Master says"

My reply was "this is true but that doesnt make you any less responsable for your actions"

She didnt seem to like that!!

So what I want to know is what you all think.. I personaly think its a copout and a testament to immeturity to think beeing a slave means you dont have to be responsable for your actions... but maybe thats just me.

Magik's slave

You say she was a *rather green sub* and possibly that's the case.....but her responses weren't THAT ridiculous.

It might be a rather dubious thing to carry that thinking over to some atrocious, far fetched act........or some issue of morality that goes against your own .......... But as you ARE discussing HER (even though she is *nameless*, pah).......it might be useful to also state the context. She certainly wasn't referring to anything earth-shatteringly awful, difficult, morally challenging or law-breaking.

Being a slave, in my opinion , doesn't absolve you from *personal responsibility*, no.....but in the context of the girl's posting, I really don't see what was so outrageous about stating that she was doing as she'd been told to.

agirl

People seem to think I was makeing this thread about this other sub.. this thread is not about her she simply sparked the question!! Though I started this thread over something she said the goings on in this thread and the things said here are NOT about her the only thing she really has to do with this is that she got me thinking.. I dont know why people seem to think I was beeing milishouse posting this thread and that I was some how bashing her. I like others here that post was simply seeking feedback from others and to see what it is that they thought about a subject that had sparked my brain to do some thinking. This thread was no way an attack on the girl in question and in no way about her eather!!!

Hope that clears things up so that we can get away from this and back to the subject at hand.

Magik's slave

I didn't suggest that it was malicious, an attack or a bashing.

I referred to the fact that you DID post about HER, however *inadvertantly*.

You used her words and I mentioned the context in which they were spoken.

I also addressed the *subject at hand*.

agirl

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 82

RE: Responsibility in slavery - 11/16/2006 10:22:21 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Ok to clear things up a little what the girl did that was following orders was not really a big deal at all. It rubed people the wrong way and the thread got out of hand and the poor girl got way more then she bargend for and it really wasnt fair to her... I didnt share what it was she did because this thread really had little to do with her and was not about transgretions but rather ones willingness to exept responsability. Looking back I see her actions where really no big deal and she was right to follow her Masters orders!!! But in my own head that doesnt abdicate her of responsability well not all of it her Master needs to take respionsability too which he has! This thread was not to be about her act but more of her response to the responses she got that she did not like... My Master had his own theary about saying "Master told me to" that is a tad different then mine but Ill let him put that here if he wishes to share it.

Magik's slave

Well MajiksSlave, if you didn't want her mentioned perhaps you should not have done so either, as you used the interaction as a base for your thread.

Regards, agirl

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 83

RE: Responsibility in slavery - 11/16/2006 10:23:54 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Ok to clear things up a little what the girl did that was following orders was not really a big deal at all. It rubed people the wrong way and the thread got out of hand and the poor girl got way more then she bargend for and it really wasnt fair to her... I didnt share what it was she did because this thread really had little to do with her and was not about transgretions but rather ones willingness to exept responsability. Looking back I see her actions where really no big deal and she was right to follow her Masters orders!!! But in my own head that doesnt abdicate her of responsability well not all of it her Master needs to take respionsability too which he has! This thread was not to be about her act but more of her response to the responses she got that she did not like... My Master had his own theary about saying "Master told me to" that is a tad different then mine but Ill let him put that here if he wishes to share it.

Magik's slave

Well MajiksSlave, if you didn't want her mentioned perhaps you should not have done so either, as you used the interaction as a base for your thread.

Regards, agirl

I didnt say I didnt want her mentioned I just said that I didnt creat this thead to be about her or to be nasty to her in any way she just provoked some interesting thoughts..

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 84

RE: Responsibility in slavery - 11/16/2006 10:33:53 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Ok to clear things up a little what the girl did that was following orders was not really a big deal at all. It rubed people the wrong way and the thread got out of hand and the poor girl got way more then she bargend for and it really wasnt fair to her... I didnt share what it was she did because this thread really had little to do with her and was not about transgretions but rather ones willingness to exept responsability. Looking back I see her actions where really no big deal and she was right to follow her Masters orders!!! But in my own head that doesnt abdicate her of responsability well not all of it her Master needs to take respionsability too which he has! This thread was not to be about her act but more of her response to the responses she got that she did not like... My Master had his own theary about saying "Master told me to" that is a tad different then mine but Ill let him put that here if he wishes to share it.

Magik's slave

Well MajiksSlave, if you didn't want her mentioned perhaps you should not have done so either, as you used the interaction as a base for your thread.

Regards, agirl

I didnt say I didnt want her mentioned I just said that I didnt creat this thead to be about her or to be nasty to her in any way she just provoked some interesting thoughts..

Magik's slave

If that is the case, I fail to see why you quoted me and then continued with the *People seem to think.......* post?

Regards, agirl

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 85

RE: Responsibility in slavery - 11/16/2006 10:40:15 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Ok to clear things up a little what the girl did that was following orders was not really a big deal at all. It rubed people the wrong way and the thread got out of hand and the poor girl got way more then she bargend for and it really wasnt fair to her... I didnt share what it was she did because this thread really had little to do with her and was not about transgretions but rather ones willingness to exept responsability. Looking back I see her actions where really no big deal and she was right to follow her Masters orders!!! But in my own head that doesnt abdicate her of responsability well not all of it her Master needs to take respionsability too which he has! This thread was not to be about her act but more of her response to the responses she got that she did not like... My Master had his own theary about saying "Master told me to" that is a tad different then mine but Ill let him put that here if he wishes to share it.

Magik's slave

Well MajiksSlave, if you didn't want her mentioned perhaps you should not have done so either, as you used the interaction as a base for your thread.

Regards, agirl

I didnt say I didnt want her mentioned I just said that I didnt creat this thead to be about her or to be nasty to her in any way she just provoked some interesting thoughts..

Magik's slave

If that is the case, I fail to see why you quoted me and then continued with the *People seem to think.......* post?

Regards, agirl

I quoted you because you where the last person to say something along those lines and I just wanted to clear things up thats all, again it wasnt done to single you out or be nasty it was just to show what had sparked my comments so people didnt think i was just beeing random and not makeing sence!!

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 86

RE: Responsibility in slavery - 11/16/2006 10:51:28 AM

Squeakers

Posts: 489
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline

Perhaps it was the way the OP worded beginning of the thread that got people in a tizzy.    If it had of worded it differently perhaps, "when a slave/sub says "I was doing as Master told me" does that indicate she has no responsibility for her actions.   Then followed up with "I think that a slave does have to take responsibilty for her actions because...."
Actually it is a very good topic and does give others something to chew on but it may have come across in a negative manner because of how it was worded.   The wording of a thread is a very difficult thing to do and it's not easy to put your point in such a way so it makes a good topic and yet doesn't piss anyone  off.   I've seen many threads where people have had to go back and explain that that wasn't exactly how they meant it especially if it is a topic they are passionate about.
The thread did provide some really good responses so the heart of the topic was not totally lost in the wording.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 87

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 10:54:55 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

[/quote]

OK so I woreded my OP badly shoot me, at least then the death would be rather painless.. but all this flaiming does is prolong it and make me rather hot and pissy!!!

Magik's cranky slave
[/quote]

Already coverd that squeaker...

See your makeing me quote myself!!

Magik's slave

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 11/16/2006 10:57:19 AM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 88

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 11:00:46 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Could you guys please try cutting out all but the most immediate response you are replying to? We don't need all the "forwards" from the thread that you've made already. Thanks.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 89

RE: Responsibility in slavery - 11/16/2006 11:04:35 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

Ok, I understand. Maybe mentioning that you're *not singling* someone out AS you do it, would help.............lol

It IS an interesting topic.........I just think that the *gossipy, she said, I said* tone of the OP was unfortunate.

Regards, agirl

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 90

RE: Responsibility in slavery - 11/16/2006 11:07:15 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Ok, I understand. Maybe mentioning that you're *not singling* someone out AS you do it, would help.............lol

It IS an interesting topic.........I just think that the *gossipy, she said, I said* tone of the OP was unfortunate.

Regards, agirl

Yeah I know I should really read re read and re re read something befor I send it i sometimes dont use my words the best and wind up confuseing people and causeing problems for that im sorry

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 91

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 11:08:02 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

OK so I woreded my OP badly shoot me, at least then the death would be rather painless.. but all this flaiming does is prolong it and make me rather hot and pissy!!!

Magik's cranky slave

Already coverd that squeaker...

See your makeing me quote myself!!

Magik's slave

.....something about taking responsibility.....ahem, She's MAKING you quote yourself?.......you're covering it again.

< Message edited by agirl -- 11/16/2006 11:09:10 AM >

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 92

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 11:31:13 AM

Squeakers

Posts: 489
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline

Actually I really was trying to be nice. See how easy it is to upset someone.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 93

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 11:35:45 AM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Squeakers

Actually I really was trying to be nice. See how easy it is to upset someone.

yeah!!

The written forum is so very hard

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to Squeakers)

Post #: 94

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 11:54:06 AM

Lady Alaria

Posts: 160
Joined: 10/16/2006
Status: offline

Magick's Salve, I for one, would love you to stop apologizing. You've almost completely succeeded in killing the thread by responding with a pissed off apology and explanation everytime someone new posts. It was badly worded. We got that. It still provoked serious discussion. Please, can we let the recriminations die, so that the discussion might live(this is not just to MS).

And I still say there is a great gap between social and legal responsibilities, and a more personal and moral responsibility. And it is possible, and sometimes desirable, to put pure obedience above all other moral concerns. At which point, one is only responsible for _that_ decision, their choice in masters, and of course, all the consequences thereof. But not necessarily for the _actions_ taken, just their consequences. The actions taken were chosen by the master, and the slave followed his moral responsibility to _obey_. He is therefor morally justified, even though responsible for the consequences.

For instance, if when trying to do good, one causes harm, one is still generally responsible for the harm. Just not the choice to do harm. In the case of the slave, this was the master's choice, with full knowledge that she would be obeyed.

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 95

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 7:36:03 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~

I do as I am told, yet take responsibility for it. I have been required, more than once, to do something which had an effect on me at work. Not an overwhelming detrimental effect, but an effect none the less. When I am looked at quizzically, or when I stumble in late as a result, I don't try to excuse it (I doubt my boss would "get" the concept of "My Master made me do it," I take responsibility for it and move on. Yet, I still put my Master first, regardless if it affects my job, my relationships, my legal standing, whatever.

If my Master told me to create a post here flaming the entire community, I would, and I would likely not quote him but just do it. (Disclaimer, so if I ever do that, please know I'm just following orders, hahahaha). I have had to remove people from my life before, and did not attribute him to those decisions. Those who know of my slavery, and who understand the same slavery that I live, know that all that I do is tied to him in some form or other. While outsiders may blame me for certain situations, I know which situations are direct orders of my Master, and I am absolved by him of any wrong doing or negative consequence.

He has made suggestions before, that could have resulted in legal ramifications. I knew he was just speculating, or thinking out loud. On such occasions, I will teasingly ask him if he'll come visit me in jail. If I see a blatant consequence to something that I truly do not think he sees, and which I also think he would not like, I will bring it to his attention. If he still wants me doing that particular act, then I do.

However, when I am told to use him as my reasoning, I do. When I have had to invite total strangers to enjoy some personal entertainment, I have explained that I am an owned slave and my Master would like me to invite them...etc.

(in reply to Lady Alaria)

Post #: 96

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 7:47:13 PM

truesub4u

Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Ok this stems from another thread...

Ok a rather green sub used the defence "I just did what Master told me"
and then got upset when one of our beloved posters (well I think she is pretty great) told her that excuse didnt fly!!

So i came in and explained that just because you are a slave doesnt mean you arent responsable for your actions

this sub then said "a good slave does as her Master says"

My reply was "this is true but that doesnt make you any less responsable for your actions"

She didnt seem to like that!!

So what I want to know is what you all think.. I personaly think its a copout and a testament to immeturity to think beeing a slave means you dont have to be responsable for your actions... but maybe thats just me.

Magik's slave

I'm not gonna bother reading through the whole thread here. I'm going just on the OP.

I AGREE........ i'm sure some don't... others do.... but either a sub...slave...dom...domme...one is responsible for ones own actions.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 97

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 8:24:32 PM

MagiksSlave

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

~Fast Reply~

I do as I am told, yet take responsibility for it. I have been required, more than once, to do something which had an effect on me at work. Not an overwhelming detrimental effect, but an effect none the less. When I am looked at quizzically, or when I stumble in late as a result, I don't try to excuse it (I doubt my boss would "get" the concept of "My Master made me do it," I take responsibility for it and move on. Yet, I still put my Master first, regardless if it affects my job, my relationships, my legal standing, whatever.

If my Master told me to create a post here flaming the entire community, I would, and I would likely not quote him but just do it. (Disclaimer, so if I ever do that, please know I'm just following orders, hahahaha). I have had to remove people from my life before, and did not attribute him to those decisions. Those who know of my slavery, and who understand the same slavery that I live, know that all that I do is tied to him in some form or other. While outsiders may blame me for certain situations, I know which situations are direct orders of my Master, and I am absolved by him of any wrong doing or negative consequence.

He has made suggestions before, that could have resulted in legal ramifications. I knew he was just speculating, or thinking out loud. On such occasions, I will teasingly ask him if he'll come visit me in jail. If I see a blatant consequence to something that I truly do not think he sees, and which I also think he would not like, I will bring it to his attention. If he still wants me doing that particular act, then I do.

However, when I am told to use him as my reasoning, I do. When I have had to invite total strangers to enjoy some personal entertainment, I have explained that I am an owned slave and my Master would like me to invite them...etc.

I Just have to bring into question why a sub would chose to be with a Master who blatently disregards the effect his orders will have on his slaves life (Im not saying yours does your post just braught the thought to my head so dont think Im flameing your Master Im not) To me that type of person does not belong beeing a Master also I question the sanity of said slave for not looking after herself.. because she choses to submit to a Master that would ask such things of her she is then responsable for the things he asks her to do because she willingly suibmitted to him.. ok Iv stoped makeing sence now...

Please ownedgirlie dont think I was saying thigns about your Master what I said wasnt about him I simply quoted you because what you wrote sparked these thoughts in. I am not speaking ill of anyone here this is all hypothetical..

OK disclamer over LOL

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 98

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 8:41:42 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Please ownedgirlie dont think I was saying thigns about your Master what I said wasnt about him I simply quoted you because what you wrote sparked these thoughts in. I am not speaking ill of anyone here this is all hypothetical..

OK disclamer over LOL

Magik's slave

No worries. Nothing you said applied to me :)

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 99

RE: Responsability - 11/16/2006 8:50:36 PM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

Ok this stems from another thread...

Ok a rather green sub used the defence "I just did what Master told me"
and then got upset when one of our beloved posters (well I think she is pretty great) told her that excuse didnt fly!!

So i came in and explained that just because you are a slave doesnt mean you arent responsable for your actions

this sub then said "a good slave does as her Master says"

My reply was "this is true but that doesnt make you any less responsable for your actions"

She didnt seem to like that!!

So what I want to know is what you all think.. I personaly think its a copout and a testament to immeturity to think beeing a slave means you dont have to be responsable for your actions... but maybe thats just me.

Magik's slave

i am not familiar with the other thread in reference here....guess i must have missed it....and i started to read this entire thread but stopped when the actual title changed and it turned into a debacle that made my head spin. So i am only going by what little i have read on this.

First of all, i think there is a lot of ambiguity in the lifestyle that a 'newbie' just can't decipher. Hell...it even gets confusing to me sometimes!

Slave says: i blindly obey my Master and don't ask any questions when ordered to do something.

Then someone asks if they would commit a crime if ordered by their Master.

Some will say yes, some will say no.

So which one is it? Are they blindly obedient or aren't they? Could be confusing to a newbie, couldn't it?

Now as far as repsonsibility.....that's rarely even mentioned. So is it that a slave will commit the crime and take responsibility for it...or does that rest on the shoulders of the one who commanded her to do it?

Then throw this in the mix (and this is a direct quote from a Master on a long gone thread)...."It all boils down to following directions, even if they don't understand the reason behind it. If they follow through and do as they are told, no matter what the outcome, they are not responsible for it, that falls as you say...on the Dominant/Owner's head."

Now a newbie (dom or sub) sees this and what are they supposed to think? Sounds to me like the Master is then the accountable one, not the slave....under any circumstances.

i wonder if you ask a Master who he feels is accountable once he makes a command....even for his sub to commit a crime....i wonder what most of them would say? i myself couldn't even guess.

And we have to remember that we are generally talking to newbies here. i mean, the old posters here have 'been there, done that'. Their experiences are different. They have grown with their partners....their dynamics are basically established.

But look how many come on here saying they're not even sure they're submissive....or how do they learn to submit....or a dom asks how does he start being a dom. Sure, giving them advice is good....but i think we need to remember that they are just starting out. And no, they most likely are not going to pick the perfect partner the first time around. i mean, how many of us actually did?

It might be wiser, instead of telling them 'i blindly obey', 'i have no limits', 'i don't ask why'... whatever....to share your early experiences....the pitfalls you experienced with the not so perfect partner.....and how you came to meet and grow with the one you now trust enough to be able to say those things about. Maybe then some of this confusion will become a little clearer. They're newbies...they don't understand the level that many talk about here. And i don't suspect they'll find the 'perfect dom' right away either....so give 'em a break. They're really just learning what it's all about.

And MS, when i use the word 'you' in this post, i am not referring to you personally.

DG

< Message edited by adaddysgirl -- 11/16/2006 8:53:40 PM >

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

Post #: 100

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