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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:11:24 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

Once again,I repeat....

Its perfectly okay for females to be/act masculine...but if a male looks/act feminine..he's totally demonized.

FACT.

Agreed. It's heartbreaking, I think. It reminds me that "I Am What I Am," which became something of an anthem for us queer folk, is actually about a cross-dresser's noble refusal to buy into the mainstream's contempt for him.

"So what if I love each feather and each spangle?
Why not try to see things from a different angle?"

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 11/19/2006 2:12:17 PM >

(in reply to sissifytoserve)

Post #: 21

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:13:35 PM

sissifytoserve

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Joined: 8/30/2006
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But remember...society is "normal"..and people like us are "Insane"....not the other way around.

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 22

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:23:46 PM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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Sissify - gay men and lesbians were regarded as insane until very recently - and treated accordingly by the psych professions. Scientific evidence though, made them sane.

TS people are still regarded as insane, but with the medical evidence mounting of it being a medical condition, shortly (hopefully) will be made sane.

CD people are still regarded as insane by the psych professions. Maybe there might be some medical reason for it too. But confirming the diagnosis with the way you are reacting here (and everywhere else when any trans subject comes up), will not help.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)

Post #: 23

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:25:22 PM

Mikal

Posts: 3673
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

But remember...society is "normal"..and people like us are "Insane"....not the other way around.

Not 'insane', just deviant.

Big difference. Besides, normal is only the majority... if we go out & start chocolatizing the vanilla, chocolate will become the norm

. Methinks the kinky people are just lazy & like to whine (cheese anyone?) about how sad it is to be kinky & misunderstood... otherwise, they'd go out & actively recruit and whatnot. *sigh* So, in actuality, kinky people are all just whiney submissive people... STOP FOOLING YOURSELVES!!! THIS IS WHAT CAUSES INSANITY!!!

OK? ok. Now, where's my coffee? *wanders off...*

_____________________________

You know that I am a sexy penguin.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)

Post #: 24

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:25:23 PM

sissifytoserve

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But society itself is sane right?

Do you believe that?

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 25

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:29:08 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

But remember...society is "normal"..and people like us are "Insane"....not the other way around.

Much Madness is divinest Sense--
To a discerning Eye--
Much Sense--the starkest Madness--
'Tis the Majority
In this, as All, prevail--
Assent--and you are sane--
Demur--you're straightway dangerous--
And handled with a Chain--

Emily Dickinson, poem 435

That makes it all the more important, imho, for all of us who "Demur" in our various ways to respect and support one another. No one else will.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)

Post #: 26

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:33:13 PM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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Sissify - personally, I dont believe there is likely more than a few thousand psychologically healthy people on the planet, if we throw in all the neuroses, fetishes, anxiety, paranoia and so on as indicators of psychological illness.

The thing is, even though the vast majority are crazy, its only a few whom we identify as being crazy - by their speech, acts or appearance - including of course, a guy dressing as a gal.

There was another thread active (at least yesterday) which offered some insights into why male CDs are regarded so badly. The gist I believe was that our society associates the feminine with weakness; thus a gal who dresses as a guy becomes powerful and gains status, whilst a guy who dresses as a gal, becomes weak and loses status.

The gal dressing as a guy, remains a gal in the end, to the guys - ie, mating potential. A guy dressing as a gal loses status as mating potential to the natural gals, and is useless as such to the guys as well as losing all status in the competition for mates.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)

Post #: 27

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:35:49 PM

Mikal

Posts: 3673
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

But society itself is sane right?

Do you believe that?

Nope. I don't believe any society in and of itself is sane. People within the society are, but as a large group making up society... nope. Insane by default. Each person has their own demons & irrational thoughts/beliefs/feeling/psychosis. When a lot of people get together, these irrationalities are added together and feed off of each other. So, you get a bunch of mostly sane folks together, and you wind up with an insane society.

_____________________________

You know that I am a sexy penguin.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)

Post #: 28

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:43:32 PM

LotusSong

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I'd really like to keep the thread on topic here. This isn't about bashing crossdressing... it's about trying to get the crossdresser to see how they MIGHT come across through their PARTNER's eyes.

I understand crossdressing. I can accept it. I could accept a bit of it in private. When it goes over the top to where I could no longer recognize the person I partnered with, then I'd begin to have a problem.

I don't think we can demonize the partner for having a shock effect and withdrawing. It's not easy for either side.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 11/19/2006 2:54:18 PM >

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 29

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:45:38 PM

gooddogbenji

Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

Once again,I repeat....

Its perfectly okay for females to be/act masculine...but if a male looks/act feminine..he's totally demonized.

FACT.

Fact?

I actually know a number of men who are very feminine, including myself. (Come on, biweekly manicures, do my own nails with a file, nailpolish etc, moisturizers of various types for face, hands, and everywhere else, OC shopper at times, dress like a gay man, etc....)

I don't think any of us are demonized, including the bi, crossdressing punk with 5 facial piercings and (I think) about 12 tattoos. Granted, if we allowed ourselves to be demonized, it would happen, but we are who we are, we aren't ashamed, and we on't look for people who demonize us.

Sorry to have to make this reference, but the whole Michael being gay thing only happened because of his reaction. If someone started making jokes about me being gay, it would last all of one post, because there would be no reaction.

If you look for people who demonize you, you'll find it everywhere. Over time, your attitude gets worse, and people stop liking you, making you think they demonize you even more.

You're not causing altercations on these boards because you dress like a chica, but because you choose to blame other people for what is your problem, and yours alone.

I just know this post will change your life.

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)

Post #: 30

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:52:26 PM

sissifytoserve

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Joined: 8/30/2006
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Thats all fine and dandy gooddogbenji...but CD/TV/TS and gays are constantly the victims of violence and ridicule.

I see it in the news all the time.

If you want to trivialize it...so be it.

.....and I won't even go into how much they are ridiculed and stereotyped on shows
like Jerry Springer or any of those daytime tv talk shows.

< Message edited by sissifytoserve -- 11/19/2006 2:56:46 PM >

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 31

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:54:24 PM

sissifytoserve

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Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice
It reminds me that "I Am What I Am," which became something of an anthem for us queer folk, is actually about a cross-dresser's noble refusal to buy into the mainstream's contempt for him.

I hear you.

Its a solitary life thats for sure.

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to dcnovice)

Post #: 32

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 2:59:17 PM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

I hear you.

Its a solitary life thats for sure.

I know you have been upfront with your girlfriends, Sissify, and yet you say they all eventually freaked on you. From past posts, it seems you were open and honest with them about it all before going to the next levels.

Is there anything you think you will do different next time? What advice can you share with those in the shadows reading here?

(in reply to sissifytoserve)

Post #: 33

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 3:00:22 PM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

I'd really like to keep the thread on topic here. This isn't about bashing crossdressing... it's about trying to get the crossdresser to see how they MIGHT come across through their PARTNER's eyes.

I understand crossdressing. I can accept it. I could accept a bit of it in private. When it goes over the top to where I could no longer recognize the person I partnered with, then I'd begin to have a problem.

I don't think we can demonize the partner for having a shock effect and withdrawing. It's not easy for either side.

Absolutely LS. My ex couldnt take it, and I dont blame her. I'd have had the same reaction if the situation were in reverse. It was disappointing personally of course, but totally understandable.

I too wonder how many CD males here would have no problem if they got with a woman who started dressing as a man (not jeans and T shirt, which is now OURS, but suit and tie, which men ought to wear to look as good as they'd like us to look, all the time!)?

I wonder how many CD males would have no problem if their lady announced they were TS and started testosterone treatment, and developed a deep manly voice and body hair?

I wonder how many CD makes would have no problem, if it came to light at some time, that their lady had formerly been a male?

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 34

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 3:01:43 PM

sissifytoserve

Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline

Act Vanilla..

Or you won't get a girlfriend.

Unless she is really open minded...forget it. She will drop youlike a hot potato if she thinks you have the slightest
amount of a feminine side.

Stay in the closet.

That's always been the case with me anyway.

< Message edited by sissifytoserve -- 11/19/2006 3:12:11 PM >

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 35

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 3:09:38 PM

Mikal

Posts: 3673
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji
Fact

I... do my own nails with a file

YOU HEATHEN!!!

Thats it. benji needs to be humanely put down... a person uses an emery board, NOT a FILE on their nails.

quote:

I don't think any of us are demonized, including the bi, crossdressing punk with 5 facial piercings and (I think) about 12 tattoos.

Stop talking about me. It's not nice and you're making my inner demons feel bad.

quote:

If someone started making jokes about me being gay, it would last all of one post, because there would be no reaction.

Well, of course you're gay, benji. You take great delight is wizzing on people's stuff... it makes you happy. Happy is gay.

quote:

If you look for people who demonize you, you'll find it everywhere. Over time, your attitude gets worse, and people stop liking you, making you think they demonize you even more.

I already asked you to stop talking about my demons... they have enough issues and don't need to deal with any more.

quote:

I just know this post will change your life.

Yours,

benji

Yep, now I have to listen to the voices in my head planning nasty $#!* to send you... you just had to involve them didn't you? *blows raspberry*

_____________________________

You know that I am a sexy penguin.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 36

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 3:10:44 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

Thats all fine and dandy gooddogbenji...but CD/TV/TS and gays are constantly the victims of violence and ridicule.

I see it in the news all the time.

If you want to trivialize it...so be it.

.....and I won't even go into how much they are ridiculed and stereotyped on shows
like Jerry Springer or any of those daytime tv talk shows.

Sisify, you mean like; "Crossdressing man beaten senseless?"
I haven't seen that headline anywhere!
Where do you "see it all the time" in the news?
Most beatings in the news involve drugs somehow not fricking crossdressing. I mean who cares?
You're sounding like a "Victim" or something.

Lady Ellen, "Medical condition" or "Mental condition?"
Will they be getting a check in the mail every month if that happens?

Women wearing Men's clothing = sexy and cool.
Men wearing Women's clothing= Not sexy or cool.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/19/2006 3:14:14 PM >

(in reply to sissifytoserve)

Post #: 37

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 3:16:27 PM

Mikal

Posts: 3673
Status: offline

Sorry LotusSong... I didn't notice your post on getting the thread back online...

I don't have a problem with most things regarding sexuality. BUT, my (potential) partnder MUST be upfront, especially in the beginning. That is where the trust is being built... if they've lied through that phase of the relationship, then that foundation is gonna crumble, bringing the rest down with it.

Sissify... If you were honest & upfront in the beginning... I haven't a clue as to what those other girls problems were. Perhaps they truly were 'girls' and not 'women'. But I do know that staying in the closet isn't an answer unless you are happy to be alone. Even then, you'll have to share the closet with dust bunnies.

_____________________________

You know that I am a sexy penguin.

(in reply to Mikal)

Post #: 38

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 3:20:11 PM

sissifytoserve

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Joined: 8/30/2006
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What a 2 minute search yeilded.

In the United States, the FBI reported that 72.6% of hate crimes reported to police in 2004 were based on perceived sexual orientation. 61% of these attacks were against gay men, 14% against lesbians, 2% against heterosexuals and 1% against bisexuals, while attacks against GLB people at large made up 20%. [1] Violence based on perceived gender identity was not recorded in the report.

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/1625500.php

http://hate-crime.website-works.com/lambda//dv97.htm

So the problem DOESN'T EXIST in your eyes? Right Popeye?

Out of sight out of mind.

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to Mikal)

Post #: 39

RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 3:29:50 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline

quote:

I actually know a number of men who are very feminine, including myself. (Come on, biweekly manicures, do my own nails with a file, nailpolish etc, moisturizers of various types for face, hands, and everywhere else, OC shopper at times, dress like a gay man, etc....)

I don't think any of us are demonized, including the bi, crossdressing punk with 5 facial piercings and (I think) about 12 tattoos. Granted, if we allowed ourselves to be demonized, it would happen, but we are who we are, we aren't ashamed, and we on't look for people who demonize us.

Sorry to have to make this reference, but the whole Michael being gay thing only happened because of his reaction. If someone started making jokes about me being gay, it would last all of one post, because there would be no reaction.

If you look for people who demonize you, you'll find it everywhere. Over time, your attitude gets worse, and people stop liking you, making you think they demonize you even more.

You're not causing altercations on these boards because you dress like a chica, but because you choose to blame other people for what is your problem, and yours alone.

I'm glad that Benji and his friends haven't been demonized; that gives me hope for the world.

But having been gay-bashed (while wearing ordinary and far from stylish male clothes, fwiw), I think it's naive not to recognize that those who deviate from the standard man/woman molds, or are viewed as doing so, may indeed face hostility and sometimes even violence.

Apologies, Lotus, for being off-topic a bit, but I think it's an important point.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 11/19/2006 3:45:11 PM >

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 40

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