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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 3:47:43 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Back from the bath now - it was much too hot, which means now I am officially HOT!

It'll wear off though.

Yep Popeye, I work with the local police on hate crime, and I see the stats for our force area. Not good. It doesnt often get reported in the press by request of the police over here - such reporting generally identifies the LGBT person concerned and only leads to more problems for them. Then there are thousands of other incidents each year, which are never reported properly by the victims, because they perceive problems and/or indifference from the police  We set up a confidential reporting system, which allows third parties to report, and that doubled the figures overnight.

E

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 4:00:59 PM   
NINASHARP


Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline 		fast reply;
I recently asked my sub if he'd like to see me dress up as a man the way he desires to be fem and he seemed mortified. When we scene, he perfers both to be sexy and femininie. Maybe I will surprise him with trousers.

Nina

_____________________________

My stiletto boots fit like gloves around his wrists.. as I locked them on I knew we were a match!

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 4:08:06 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NINASHARP

fast reply;
I recently asked my sub if he'd like to see me dress up as a man the way he desires to be fem and he seemed mortified. When we scene, he perfers both to be sexy and femininie. Maybe I will surprise him with trousers.

Nina


Interesting.  Could there be a double standard in this also?

(in reply to NINASHARP)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 4:08:32 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

What a 2 minute search yeilded.

In the United States, the FBI reported that 72.6% of hate crimes reported to police in 2004 were based on perceived sexual orientation. 61% of these attacks were against gay men, 14% against lesbians, 2% against heterosexuals and 1% against bisexuals, while attacks against GLB people at large made up 20%. [1] Violence based on perceived gender identity was not recorded in the report.

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/07/1625500.php

http://hate-crime.website-works.com/lambda//dv97.htm

So the problem DOESN'T EXIST in your eyes? Right Popeye?

Out of sight out of mind.





Sisify, that doesn't tell me anything.
That's for "hate crimes."
I watch the news everynight I haven't seen any crimes committed against crossdressers!
And if "the problem" exists it's miniscule!
You're making a mountain.............
Sure, must be the Rookies in the FBI that get that shit duty; "Terrorism Taskforce? "Ah no, ....you'll be working on the Cross Dresser Assaults Unit."
"You're fucking kidding me!"

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 4:08:37 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		I think that, regardless of anything else, someone can always get attacked, verbally or physically.

However, the odds of it get smaller the more confident someone is in themselves.

We teach people how to treat us.

Yours,


benji

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 4:17:45 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

I think that, regardless of anything else, someone can always get attacked, verbally or physically.

However, the odds of it get smaller the more confident someone is in themselves.

We teach people how to treat us.

Yours,


benji


Very good point Benji - and something I was discussing on the other side with someone else here (no names).

The sad fact is, that to avoid problems as a guy dressed as a gal, one has to look right and project the air of confidence that comes from knowing one looks right.

I wonder whether these cases are ones in which the person doesnt look right, does look right but lacks confidence, or looks right but has had their confidence knocked?

Its not just a CD thing though; if you walk around in everyday life, looking at everyone to see if they are looking at you, you will get attention. Its human nature to notice someone doing that, and once attention is brought to bear, problems can ensue.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 4:22:06 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Popeye - the problem is not miniscule to those who are attacked, I can assure you. Statistically I would guess, for every hundred CDs who venture out, a good ninety at least, will get problems of some sort. I would also guess that for every hundred normal, average Joe's who venture out, less than one will get problems.

At least though, CDs can take their clothes off, and remove the cause of their problems.

If you saw the TS people who get referred to me after problems, you wouldnt see it as minor - and they cant remove the cause of their problems.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 4:23:10 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

However, the odds of it get smaller the more confident someone is in themselves.


Yes and no. If a gay couple are confident with themselves, they may indeed inspire better reactions from, say, family and friends. If they're confident to the point of holding hands on the street, however, their risk of being attacked may increase rather than decrease.

quote:

We teach people how to treat us.


That's a hard sentence to answer, because I think it's both true and not true. It's probably quite true in interpersonal relations, where people often pick up on and respond to how we carry ourselves. I think it's less true in, say, the case of my bashing. The attackers were total strangers who saw me standing in line for a gay bar in London. That fact alone was, to them, reason enough for assault. I don't for a second believe that I "taught" them to attack me. They acted out preexisting hatred, and I just happened to be a handy target.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 11/19/2006 4:26:57 PM >

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 4:48:21 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Rhetorical question - Why did you get attacked and not the guy next to you?

Yours,


benji

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 4:49:24 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline 		What exactly is she trying to prove with this? That as someone with the looks of a famous female model, she can wear either male or female clothes and still look good?  i don't get it.




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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 4:50:40 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
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quote:

Rhetorical question - Why did you get attacked and not the guy next to you?


Actually, he did too. I think it's because we were at the end of the line and were thus the easiest to pick off.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 11/19/2006 5:03:55 PM >

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 5:06:10 PM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

What exactly is she trying to prove with this? That as someone with the looks of a famous female model, she can wear either male or female clothes and still look good?  i don't get it.



Who?

Oh right! Tyra!

Forgot about her.

E

< Message edited by LadyEllen -- 11/19/2006 5:16:12 PM >

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 5:51:48 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

What exactly is she trying to prove with this? That as someone with the looks of a famous female model, she can wear either male or female clothes and still look good?  i don't get it.






She does this to see how the "other side" interacts.  She did a fat suit segment one show in which she was made up and went out in public and on a couple dates with guys, got their reaction to 'Fat Tyra".. then met them again as herself and tried to make the point that no matter how she looked, she was still the same person inside the makeup.
 
The program tomorrow is "what is it like to be a man in today's society". So she is going undercover as a man. It actually has NOTHING to do with Cross Dressing.
 
However, it made me wonder how a man would feel if his wife/girlfriend opened up to him to say "Honey, I have this need to cross dress and actually make love to you as the other gender".  Does love conquer all?

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 11/19/2006 5:53:29 PM >

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 6:09:34 PM   
NINASHARP


Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: NINASHARP

fast reply;
I recently asked my sub if he'd like to see me dress up as a man the way he desires to be fem and he seemed mortified. When we scene, he perfers both to be sexy and femininie. Maybe I will surprise him with trousers.

Nina


Interesting.  Could there be a double standard in this also?


In his case it certainly is!

_____________________________

My stiletto boots fit like gloves around his wrists.. as I locked them on I knew we were a match!

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 7:08:07 PM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

What exactly is she trying to prove with this? That as someone with the looks of a famous female model, she can wear either male or female clothes and still look good?  i don't get it.






She does this to see how the "other side" interacts.  She did a fat suit segment one show in which she was made up and went out in public and on a couple dates with guys, got their reaction to 'Fat Tyra".. then met them again as herself and tried to make the point that no matter how she looked, she was still the same person inside the makeup.
 
The program tomorrow is "what is it like to be a man in today's society". So she is going undercover as a man. It actually has NOTHING to do with Cross Dressing.
 
However, it made me wonder how a man would feel if his wife/girlfriend opened up to him to say "Honey, I have this need to cross dress and actually make love to you as the other gender".  Does love conquer all?


i don't believe that love conquers all when personal preferences are not satisifed.  i also believe that love does not change a person's internal wiring.  If i were married and my husband after several years came to me and expressed his need to cross dress, i may be inclined to try it to see if i could get passed it, mainly because i supposedly love him enough to wish to try, before throwing in tthe  towel.  But on the whole, i could not find satisfaction or fulfillment with a male crossdresser as my partner.  It is just not something that does it for me.  We are who we are with or without the love quotient.  However, i do believe that love can enable a person to see deeper into another, and also foster the conditions for a greater acceptance, understanding and tolerance of the needs and desires of their partner. 

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/19/2006 7:47:09 PM   
petdave


Posts: 2479
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong
The program tomorrow is "what is it like to be a man in today's society". So she is going undercover as a man. It actually has NOTHING to do with Cross Dressing.
 
However, it made me wonder how a man would feel if his wife/girlfriend opened up to him to say "Honey, I have this need to cross dress and actually make love to you as the other gender".  Does love conquer all?


Huh.  Well, i hope they're not paying her to find out that it sucks... anyone could tell her that. What a bizarre premise for self-promotion.

That is an interesting flipside to the more common dilemma, tho... i imagine that of the few men that would be willing to accept that, you'd find a higher percentage in the D/s community than in the general population, but it certainly would make for some vigorous conversations!

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/20/2006 5:06:56 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: petdave

What exactly is she trying to prove with this? That as someone with the looks of a famous female model, she can wear either male or female clothes and still look good?  i don't get it.



I'd say that would be the typical interpretation of the situation, by a CD male - ie, how good do I look in this? and by extension, how good does she look in that?

I rather imagine the idea would be, to find out how other people's reactions to her vary, when they perceive her to be a guy, as compared to their reactions to her normally. We had something in the UK in a similar vein to this a year or so back - sending celebs out into the world crossdressed/fat/old and so on, to see how things were for the opposite sex, the obese and the old, through the eyes of those who had never experienced those conditions. It was fascinating.

Its only when you do adopt the condition of the other, so convincingly that you are taken for the other, that you really see how things are. I should imagine that most CDs would recoil at the thought of really, truly, being treated as many women are in normal life. I'm not talking about some handsome stranger chatting you up in a bar - common CD fantasy as I understand it - but about being ignored, interrupted, disrespected and treated as stupid, paid less, allocated the more menial tasks and generally thought of as lesser.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/20/2006 5:21:04 AM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline 		Lady Ellen, I made it to your post back on page 2 before I read any further.

Does anyone recall from history how the first women to wear masculine clothing were viewed? Does anyone recall that they had to be rather bold to even consider wearing clothing that was masculine. Women were looked down upon for wearing men's clothing once upon a time.

(going back to finish the thread now)

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MstrssPassion


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RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/20/2006 5:33:14 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

Lady Ellen, I made it to your post back on page 2 before I read any further.

Does anyone recall from history how the first women to wear masculine clothing were viewed? Does anyone recall that they had to be rather bold to even consider wearing clothing that was masculine. Women were looked down upon for wearing men's clothing once upon a time.

(going back to finish the thread now)


Very true.

CD females were not exactly welcomed. Joan of Arc for example.

The problem for women dressing as men, was that they were "getting above themselves". The women's rights movement caught up, and I guess that social progress was what made it OK.

The problem for men dressing as women is, that they thereby make themselves lesser (according to society in general).

Its the same old, patriarchal, Biblical source which explains so much of whats wrong with society, every time. Its not even our religion, which adds insult to the injury.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Tyra is CROSS DRESSING tomorrow!!! - 11/20/2006 5:50:24 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		General response ...
 
I believe some of the people that think this is not a problem, may live in a more open minded part of the world ... example, benji ... you live in Toronto. I've never been, but it has a reputation for being somewhat open minded.
 
Contrast that to good old south Texas, where you just don't want to be a gay or feminine guy. You will be messed with, starting at a very young age, including physically messed with. Gay bashing (including actual physical bashing) is a reality down here, especially in High School. Butch girls have it a little better, but not much. Not so much physical violence, but equal or more peer pressure. I dressed goth for about eight months, and was treated like social waste. Funny thing about redneck boy and goth girl. Redneck boy will ask you out, but not if anyone is there to see it ... and if goth girl doesn't put out on the first date ... rumors about her sexuality fly.
 
Now, the odd part. My best friend goes to UofH and tells me that they have some of those same problems. She tells me it's a lot like good 'ol Katy High, with more students. I go to Rice, and you could walk across campus dressed like Dracula, with a Santa hat and spiked dog collar, and nobody would care one bit.

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