RE: Kramer goes ballistic (Full Version)

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kittensmailbox -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 11:14:00 AM)

i still do not think he did anything wrong... AGAIN black comedians make fun of whites all the time...   What is the big deal....




LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 12:12:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Fast Reply:

According to the news report I saw...a comedian who was at the show was interviewed and reported the people were TALKING during his show ...NOT heckling Richards.  Another person said a singer can sing just fine alone, but a good singer needs to be able to sing even when the fights break out...

Anyway, did anybody see the commercial I saw last night for Seinfield re-runs on Thanksgiving day?  Too funny; showed the Kramer character's head on the turkey which was on a serving table...waving with his wing!  hmmmmm... maybe it was a cooked goose, come to think of it!

beverly


I wonder why there are no clips of what the Hecklers were saying/doing?  We are getting only half the story.




RosaB -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 1:52:23 PM)

Yes people are so quick to make blame the recipients of vile language and say they deserved it for starting it.  I saw two of the targets of the tirade.  From what was being said, they a mixed ethnic group had entered the club after Richards act had already begun, they were a bit noisy, ordering drinks and such, but not saying anything to Richards till he started calling them names and that's when the guys and other people, not just the black men, made negative comments to Richards.  According to the two guest on the news morning show, Richards singled out the blacks in the group of a diverse ethnic group of individuals to spew his hateful words. 

I saw Richards on Letterman the other night as well, and my feelings are that I'm not really sure just yet what to think as to his sincerity.  But I do believe in forgiveness, he's human, he could be in crisis, sometimes people strike below the belt when they're hurting and they don't have the tools within to handle turmoil within.  I'll just wait and see.

And to those that say no one cries out when blacks speak negatively about whites or other ethnic groups, or vile language that rappers use, you are so wrong.  There have been many a battles within the black community about such issues. Some in the press, some even on the ever hated Oprah show.  I think some people just choose to make note of what gets under their skin and close their ears to those accounts.  Two wrongs don't make a right ya know.  I cringe when black comedians use words like hunky, cracker, whitey; and I do speak out against hateful language directed at any group of people.  

Obviously some people haven't had to experience having their child come home from a play date in tears, from a friends after the other child's grandmother or other relative tells the children they shouldn't be playing together because of their different ethnic backgrounds.  We can all laugh and gloss over and say lighten up.  But it starts with just  the little things and those little things desensitize people.  I'm very thankful to those people here that see there is a problem with such outburst it is because of such people that the we hopefully will all progress as one unified group of people some millennium while others sit quietly by hoping we all go away and hoping for the good ole days. 

Also, let me tell, you about 13-15 years ago, I was coming out of a club after having a great time and as I was getting into my car with my friends a group of young males that had come out of the club drove by and yelled out niggers.  In all my years, I don't think, I'd ever actually had anyone call it out to me.  If you aren't a black person, you just can't understand what the shock and of those words felt like.  I was momentarily paralyzed.  I can't explain it.  Yes its just a word, but never having had someone call me it out loud and so forcefully with such hate.  I was stunned and taken aback.  Now that was then and the word no longer has that power over me, nor does it have that same power over many people.  But for a person Richards age, he fully knows the history, for sure, he used some lynching references.  There was nothing any intelligent even mildly sensitive thoughtful human being would find humor in Richard's outburst.  If you do, IMO, it shows that maybe you are already desensitized when it comes to people outside of your own little world.  I could be wrong. 

Rosa


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee

Fast Reply:

According to the news report I saw...a comedian who was at the show was interviewed and reported the people were TALKING during his show ...NOT heckling Richards.  Another person said a singer can sing just fine alone, but a good singer needs to be able to sing even when the fights break out...

Anyway, did anybody see the commercial I saw last night for Seinfield re-runs on Thanksgiving day?  Too funny; showed the Kramer character's head on the turkey which was on a serving table...waving with his wing!  hmmmmm... maybe it was a cooked goose, come to think of it!

beverly






Lordandmaster -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 1:56:22 PM)

That's a very thoughtful post, RosaB.




RosaB -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 2:07:17 PM)

Thank you.  [:)]




LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 2:10:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

That's a very thoughtful post, RosaB.


Yes, indeed, RosaB. thank you.
 
I have heard also that Richard actually did a documentary in the past on the origin of the N word.  Has anybody seen that?
 
Now what I would like to know.. is the origin of the slurs used for the whites.  I don't think we get that offended by them because as for myself.. I have no clue where they came from. Call me a cracker and I think "saltines", say "whitey" and my reaction is nil also. Now the honky one.. what's the origin of that one!!! LOL  I used to think  they meant "hunky" which is a nickname for Hungarian - which I am..  The point here being, that none of these names affect me to the point of rage.  Now scream bitch at a woman.. and you'll be handed your head. 
 
But we do nothing about it.  Bitch, Cunt, Slut MF'r.. we all just chuckle and say it's just an endearment.. nothing is meant by it.  Nah.. it's no more an endearment to me than N is.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 2:42:59 PM)

"Cracker" goes back to the 18th century, believe it or not.  Literally, it means "braggart" (it's related to the "crack" in "cracking jokes"), and referred to poor white farmers, in places like Virginia, who would tell tall tales.  Basically the same thing as "redneck," in other words, but with a different image.  It's been used to mean something like "white-trash racist" since the early 20th century.




LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 2:53:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

"Cracker" goes back to the 18th century, believe it or not.  Literally, it means "braggart" (it's related to the "crack" in "cracking jokes"), and referred to poor white farmers, in places like Virginia, who would tell tall tales.  Basically the same thing as "redneck," in other words, but with a different image.  It's been used to mean something like "white-trash racist" since the early 20th century.


Ever notice when someone refers to "white trash".. a white person will always look around to see who's being referred to?   I'm starting to think there is a gene that makes us immune.  It's probably the one that also inhibits our rhythm. 
 
I don't want to make lite of this whole situation. I just started thinking if there are any words that offend the whites to such a degree.  Probably Natzi would be one.




Sinergy -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 3:15:37 PM)

 
I was once teaching a class about 15 years ago where one of the blonde white students asked the other male assailant, a 6'7" black man, to give her the whole black guy raping a white woman scenario for her rape-scenario, adrenalin training,
fights.

The male assailant was one of the nicest and gentlest people that I have been deeply honored to work with.  I was probably one of the only people in the class that saw the (well disguised) look of pain and anguish in his eyes over what that woman was asking him to do.  I am certain he was thinking of the hundreds of years of these sorts of stereotypes entering into the psyches of people, resulting in hatred and bigotry and intolerance.  He made a non-commital response and the class went on.

When we (the male and female instructors) talked about it afterwards, he said he was not going to go there and I agreed with him.  His comment at the time was that we are scary enough without bringing racial prejudices into the equation.

Sinergy




Bearlee -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 3:23:16 PM)

 
Just so you know, Rosa...we agree; I was pointing out the fact that the folks in the audience we not heckling him.  Richards is an insensitive idiot who more than shot himself in the foot.   Odd too, huh; coming on the heels of the anti-semitic crap somebody else spewed! 
 
When will we ever learn?




LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 3:33:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee


Just so you know, Rosa...we agree; I was pointing out the fact that the folks in the audience we not heckling him.  Richards is an insensitive idiot who more than shot himself in the foot.   Odd too, huh; coming on the heels of the anti-semitic crap somebody else spewed! 
 
When will we ever learn?


I've looked at the footage time and time again..
 
I'm wondering if he was doing the "interacting with the audience" technique and got in over his head.  What worked for Prior didn't work for him and I think he kept trying and just went overboard. THEN got so frustrated at looking like a fool he went down in flames.  I'm not trying to make excuses for him- just looking at all sides.

(edited to add)  A man with THAT much to loose could not have been that stupid!




RosaB -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 4:26:15 PM)

Oh sorry Bearlee, if I gave you the wrong impression, I was just continuing on with what you pointed out about who started what in that mess.  [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bearlee


Just so you know, Rosa...we agree; I was pointing out the fact that the folks in the audience we not heckling him.  Richards is an insensitive idiot who more than shot himself in the foot.   Odd too, huh; coming on the heels of the anti-semitic crap somebody else spewed! 
 
When will we ever learn?




dcnovice -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 10:22:58 PM)

quote:

I just started thinking if there are any words that offend the whites to such a degree.  Probably Natzi would be one.


Calling someone a faggot might do it.




dcnovice -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 10:24:41 PM)

Great post, Rosa. Many thanks.




dcnovice -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 10:35:20 PM)

quote:

'd hate to think that black folks weren't able to stand some healthy reciprocation for the constant white jokes that the media is barraged with by African American comedians.


Obviously, no two people see the same scene the same way, but I didn't get the impression Richards was particularly joking when he was talking about lynching.

quote:

I'll bet you my life savings (about ten dollars and a Wendy's gift certificate) that no such public ire would have been set off, if "Kramer" had told "White Trash" jokes, or taunted some "hillbillies" in the audience.


Again, I didn't really get the impression that he was joking. Apparently, neither did many other people. I think the allusion to lynching was a particularly important difference between Richards's outburst and white-trash jokes (about which I'm not wild either). Part of what made the Richards tirade so striking, for me at least, is the suggestion that the hatred that underlay slavery and segregation and lynching -- none which, so far as I know, befell even poor white folks -- is alive and lurking in 21st-century America.





juliaoceania -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 10:46:33 PM)

I had the impression he had totally melted down almost like a nervous breakdown. He did not seem to be in control over himself at all. If he is having emotional difficulties I hope he gets help.

I have had misogynistic hateful things said to me in my life, really very cold, rude, cruel things... as I am sure most women have. It is hard to be on the receiving end of being treated badly for any reason. It is sad that some men hate all women because of their mommies, and some white people hate all black people because of what one black person did. Or that some men hate gay men because they are afraid of being gay themselves... but at the root of all this is one thing, fear, and that fear is based on ignorance.

If Richards has had some sort of meltdown hopefully he will seek help with his anger issues.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/22/2006 10:53:38 PM)

I don't think you can find a word that would offend whites as much as "nigger" offends blacks because whites as a group weren't subjected to systematic discrimination for centuries.  The whole point is that words have histories.  This has nothing to do with racial guilt, affirmative action, or anything like that--it's just a statement about the connotations of words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I just started thinking if there are any words that offend the whites to such a degree.  Probably Natzi would be one.


Calling someone a faggot might do it.




Level -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/23/2006 1:59:39 AM)

I agree with Lam.




mnottertail -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/23/2006 4:54:59 AM)

I agree, Richard Pryor had one of the best monologues I have ever heard on this subject.  It went along the lines of ----

You get in a disagreement with a white person and  all of a sudden they can just say, You may be right but you're still a nigger.  They take your manhood away and then you gotta deal with that shit............(heavy sigh)........... Unaware of anything on that order for white people.

Oh, and MizRudolph?  You got a Turkey comin' from me next Thanksgiving......LOL.
(that is off point and not directed at Lam..... The one it is directed at will know)


Ron




meatcleaver -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/23/2006 6:19:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreSwank

I'll bet you my life savings (about ten dollars and a Wendy's gift certificate) that no such public ire would have been set off, if  "Kramer" had told "White Trash" jokes, or taunted some "hillbillies" in the audience. You know who I think that Kramer's comments pissed off the most?????  AFFLUENT WHITE PEOPLE.  Go figure.



As someone pointed out, the comedian didn't look like he was joking but that he meant everything he said.

As for 'white trash', that is a term that insults two races at once (think about it) so people who use it are insulting themselves as well as the opposite race, be it black or white. Which comes right back to what has been said, there is nothing you could call white people that has the power of 'nigger'.




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