RE: Kramer goes ballistic

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LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 5:03:22 AM)
This weekend.. a black football player was frustrated at a play he made and flipped the bird to the fans. Do you think we will have Billy Grahm insist on meeting with him on television and radio and demand an apology to the fans who paid to see the game? No.. he MIGHT be fined a bit and we just have to accept he had a "moment". No excuses. .. for any of them. Neither Richards or the football player. Richards insulted a race.. the other insulted a fan base that was supportive. More than anything, this thread makes me incredibly sad and for the first time, I feel like I am different, maybe not even welcome on this site. That is what racism does -- it creates breaches that are hard to span. Dear Diva :) While the topic is upsetting for all of us- I don't see why you feel unwelcome on the site here. Heck, women are still working on sexism :) When I see a thread by the males that gloat about how they call their women bitches, cunts and ho's and call it an "endearment", I feel like reaching through the monitor and btch-slapping them. I will not empower the words by acknowledging them. You see, if they KNOW the words bother us..they'll use them to hurt and belittle. And if they are ever drowning.. I'll stop by long enough to throw them a rock :) (in other words, Diva, please stay :)*

RosaB -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 6:37:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DivineDarkDiva If the use of that word was all he did, and if he'd said it as a joke, I don't believe there would have been as much outrage. Personally, you've used that word at least 3 times too much for my liking. I'm Black and I don't use it, and I make sure that people in my hearing who do use it know that I don't like it. It holds negative connotations for me, and I will not allow it to be a part of my vocabulary. That's just one thing. I hope you recognize that the offense was not simply his hateful use of that word, but the totality of his tirade. He referenced lynching, which is not so distant that we don't know what it means. He referenced sodomizing the man with a fork [Louima comes to mind with the broom handle puncturing his rectum]. These were not jesting comments, they were serious references to some of the lowest times of America's history. I won't lighten up and take it as a joke. I won't take it as justified or provoked because most everyone knows that stand up comics get heckled. A comic learns how to silence the hecklers without offending an entire race of people. Furthermore, Michael Richards proceeded to rail against other patrons, calling them MFs, etc. More than anything, this thread makes me incredibly sad and for the first time, I feel like I am different, maybe not even welcome on this site. That is what racism does -- it creates breaches that are hard to span. I can understand your frustration, but as stated before it is only a few that don't or aren't willing to try and see the difference in why what Richards said warrants the outcry it has received. I myself am done with trying to talk to them, as it appears they long ago made up their minds. Don't let these mindsets deter you from spending time on these boards. Those few really aren't worth you high tailing it out of here. Beside you'll find no other similar type site that is any more or less racially inclusive. There's a lot good about this site and some of the people. Frankly, compared to some of the other threads around here, people were a lot more reasonable. Just take this as a reflection of the world of which you live in, you're not going to check out of it because those around you have views about black people that you find upsetting, you learn to be mindful and deal and do your part to make sure your rights and hopefully the rights of others continue to be protected. There's a saying "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies even closer. So stick around, you bail your enemies win. Rosa

LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 4:36:46 PM)
What do you think is going to be enough of an apology? If it were I, I would meet with those involved in the situation in the audience and hear them out. And if an apology is warranted (and it is, don't get me wrong) I'd apologize. I think the apology should come on the personal level where it took place- eye to eye. If it were on a mass media situation.. then do the "to the entire world" kind of apology. What is enough? Can there ever BE enough? The football player (Michael Vick) was fined $5000. Apologized on CNN and said he just wants this all behind him. End of apology. Is THIS enough?:

Level -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 5:12:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TxBlkMistress quote: ORIGINAL: LadyJulieAnn I watched the two hecklers on the "Today Show" the other day. Apparently they were part of a group of 20 people who came in late to the show. Richards made the first racial comment because the group was being loud, and it all continued from there. I don't condone what Richards did, but I also don't condone the idea that the hecklers be paid money for their "pain and suffering", as their lawyer is proposing. I think trying to get money is bullshit. I also, think people that use that pain and suffering crap, for simple words, are p*ies. Also, I can pretty much bet they didn't call that lawyer...I have a feeling she was on the phone to them before they stepped one toe outside the club...lol I would be willing to bet you're right [:D] Ever notice that same lawyer seems to be "right there" when anything in the news happens? (oh great, now I"m Andy Rooney....LOL) Oh no, you look nothing like Rooney, trust me. [;)]** Number one I wouldn't interrupt someone's "act" (for lack of a better word), and second if it sucked that much, I would've simply asked for my money back. People have the right to say whatever they please, no matter how stupid. Actually, as I read in an earlier thread, class and money have just as many bigots. The Kennedy's were discriminated against because they were catholic, they had to change cities to get away from it, and found that you simply can't run from it. They still were rejected in their new town. And for that fact if O.J. didn't have the money he has you think we'd be looking at his ignorant ass right now? He'd be in jail being someone's bitch never heard from again..... My point: there will always be someone that has something against somebody....just roll your eyes and move on.

Level -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 5:19:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong What do you think is going to be enough of an apology? If it were I, I would meet with those involved in the situation in the audience and hear them out. And if an apology is warranted (and it is, don't get me wrong) I'd apologize. I think the apology should come on the personal level where it took place- eye to eye. If it were on a mass media situation.. then do the "to the entire world" kind of apology. What is enough? Can there ever BE enough? The football player (Michael Vick) was fined $5000. Apologized on CNN and said he just wants this all behind him. End of apology. Is THIS enough?: *What Vick did was foolish, but different. It's really, really* hard to top the "n" word. As for Richards' apology, it is enough, in my book, as far as doing so in a general sense. If he feels the need to continue saying he's sorry, I'd hope he did so to the people actually in the club.**

popeye1250 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 5:29:46 PM)
O'Reilly just said that Kramer is hooking up with "The Reverand" Jesse Jackson. Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't he guilty of using the "H" words, "Honkey" and "Himey" as in "Himeytown?" Funny, Clinton hooked up with "The Reverand" also as his "spiritual advisor" after that Monica Lewinsky disaster then it came out that "The Reverand" was no stranger to extra-marital shenanigans himself and had a "love child." Does Kramer really want to get involved with this boob?

Level -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 5:44:17 PM)
I wouldn't, popeye, but much of America sees Jackson as a leader in the black community, so I guess Richards felt this would be a good way of smoothing things over.

popeye1250 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 5:55:12 PM)
Level, that Kramer guy already appologised. "The Reverand" Jesse Jackson is bad news! He's basically a shakedown artist who blackmails companies through his "Rainbow Coalition" with the threat of boycotts unless they cough up millions of dollars. And worse, the U.S. govt knows all about his activities but refuses to go after him! That's how one of his sons got a Budweiser beer distributorship in the Chicago area. That's what the "Italian" and "Irish" orgs do in the North East and they're fair game.

DivineDarkDiva -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 7:01:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong This weekend.. a black football player was frustrated at a play he made and flipped the bird to the fans. Do you think we will have Billy Grahm insist on meeting with him on television and radio and demand an apology to the fans who paid to see the game? No.. he MIGHT be fined a bit and we just have to accept he had a "moment". No excuses. .. for any of them. Neither Richards or the football player. Richards insulted a race.. the other insulted a fan base that was supportive. More than anything, this thread makes me incredibly sad and for the first time, I feel like I am different, maybe not even welcome on this site. That is what racism does -- it creates breaches that are hard to span. Dear Diva :) While the topic is upsetting for all of us- I don't see why you feel unwelcome on the site here. Heck, women are still working on sexism :) When I see a thread by the males that gloat about how they call their women bitches, cunts and ho's and call it an "endearment", I feel like reaching through the monitor and btch-slapping them. I will not empower the words by acknowledging them. You see, if they KNOW the words bother us..they'll use them to hurt and belittle. And if they are ever drowning.. I'll stop by long enough to throw them a rock :) (in other words, Diva, please stay :)* LotusSong: Thank you for the encouragement. I didn't plan to leave the site, I just felt unwelcome as I read. I stopped reading the thread for the most part. It's better that I just leave it alone. However, I can't say that I'll ever be the sort who doesn't let folks know their words hurt. We learned as children that "sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me." It isn't true. Words can damage so deeply, and I guess I'm just sick of hate. It really is time that we learn to live in the world and recognize the innate value of any people, whether they look, sound, or act like us. I'm not a football fan or follower, so I don't know what happened this weekend. I can say that the player who hoisted a finger at fans should be called into accountability. If you ask me, many professional athletes are allowed to carry juvenile behavior into adulthood because they make money for the owners, coaches, team, concessionaires, etc. Someone does them a disservice along the line by not expecting or demanding better behavior from them. Since nothing seems to matter in organized sports except the money, I guess the money will be the only accpetable form of punishment. But, I'd be happy to wield a well-placed paddle against their buttocks until they cry in earnest.

DivineDarkDiva -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 7:06:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RosaB quote: ORIGINAL: DivineDarkDiva If the use of that word was all he did, and if he'd said it as a joke, I don't believe there would have been as much outrage. Personally, you've used that word at least 3 times too much for my liking. I'm Black and I don't use it, and I make sure that people in my hearing who do use it know that I don't like it. It holds negative connotations for me, and I will not allow it to be a part of my vocabulary. That's just one thing. I hope you recognize that the offense was not simply his hateful use of that word, but the totality of his tirade. He referenced lynching, which is not so distant that we don't know what it means. He referenced sodomizing the man with a fork [Louima comes to mind with the broom handle puncturing his rectum]. These were not jesting comments, they were serious references to some of the lowest times of America's history. I won't lighten up and take it as a joke. I won't take it as justified or provoked because most everyone knows that stand up comics get heckled. A comic learns how to silence the hecklers without offending an entire race of people. Furthermore, Michael Richards proceeded to rail against other patrons, calling them MFs, etc. More than anything, this thread makes me incredibly sad and for the first time, I feel like I am different, maybe not even welcome on this site. That is what racism does -- it creates breaches that are hard to span. I can understand your frustration, but as stated before it is only a few that don't or aren't willing to try and see the difference in why what Richards said warrants the outcry it has received. I myself am done with trying to talk to them, as it appears they long ago made up their minds. Don't let these mindsets deter you from spending time on these boards. Those few really aren't worth you high tailing it out of here. Beside you'll find no other similar type site that is any more or less racially inclusive. There's a lot good about this site and some of the people. Frankly, compared to some of the other threads around here, people were a lot more reasonable. Just take this as a reflection of the world of which you live in, you're not going to check out of it because those around you have views about black people that you find upsetting, you learn to be mindful and deal and do your part to make sure your rights and hopefully the rights of others continue to be protected. There's a saying "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies even closer. So stick around, you bail your enemies win. Rosa Thanks for the supportive words, Rosa. I'm not leaving, but I was very discouraged as I read. Hate can be so tiring sometimes. I like this website, have benefitted from being here, and value the exchange over all. However, if that was a mild exchange, I'm just glad I didn't stumble upon one of the more unreasonable threads. LOL I'll be working on thickening my skin.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 7:08:27 PM)
Guess I should of quoted popeye's comments, so the post below would make sense. A while back something racial happened in Decatur North of here at a high school or something(don't remember specifics anymore). Anyway, this is back in my insurance days, and I was working up there. I was at policy holders house and somehow it came up about jesse jackson being in town. And she said they were pompous assholes, and refused to pay for there meals at a local restaurant, and when the management threatened to call the police, they were told they'd protest and the store. So, the restaurant just ate the bill. Anyway, I don't see why the woman would lie to me about it(stranger with no likely of meeting again), but I wouldn't doubt he'd do it. He just lives for racial tensions of any kind and everyone just parts like the red sea in fear of being called a racist. He's just as bad as the lawyers, everytime he must jump in with his preconceived formula and stir the pot. Thankfully, I've met several black people that don't buy all his crap either, and oh my god they hate him. Mostly, because he's set himself up as the self-proclaimed speaker for all issues black related. Anyway, don't know if the story is true or not, but seeing that is the only first hand account of an encounter with the rainbow coalition I've had, it really doesn't speak well.

DivineDarkDiva -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 7:28:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TxBlkMistress quote: ORIGINAL: DivineDarkDiva More than anything, this thread makes me incredibly sad and for the first time, I feel like I am different, maybe not even welcome on this site. That is what racism does -- it creates breaches that are hard to span. I understand what you are saying, but I really wouldn't let anyone run me off if I honestly liked the site. If you read the posts, there are only about two people out of many that were more on the negative, and they are probably just doing it for arguements sake. What about everyone else? I've made many friends on this site, and hope to make many more. The people here are wonderful. Not going to let a few sad people ruin it for me. You're right, of course. I am not going to let a few folks ruin things for me either, but it was discouraging to read even the few. It was the first time I felt such things in the time I've been on this site. Been mad, been glad, been amused and bemused. Last night I was distressed, but today ... ah today! I am fierce. LOL Ok, maybe not fierce, but settled that whether we agree or not, this is a good place to be.

DivineDarkDiva -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 7:42:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou Guess I should of quoted popeye's comments, so the post below would make sense. A while back something racial happened in Decatur North of here at a high school or something(don't remember specifics anymore). Anyway, this is back in my insurance days, and I was working up there. I was at policy holders house and somehow it came up about jesse jackson being in town. And she said they were pompous assholes, and refused to pay for there meals at a local restaurant, and when the management threatened to call the police, they were told they'd protest and the store. So, the restaurant just ate the bill. Anyway, I don't see why the woman would lie to me about it(stranger with no likely of meeting again), but I wouldn't doubt he'd do it. He just lives for racial tensions of any kind and everyone just parts like the red sea in fear of being called a racist. He's just as bad as the lawyers, everytime he must jump in with his preconceived formula and stir the pot. Thankfully, I've met several black people that don't buy all his crap either, and oh my god they hate him. Mostly, because he's set himself up as the self-proclaimed speaker for all issues black related. Anyway, don't know if the story is true or not, but seeing that is the only first hand account of an encounter with the rainbow coalition I've had, it really doesn't speak well. I don't hate Jesse Jackson, but I don't buy his stuff. He's a good orator, but I don't much trust that he has more than his own interests at heart. But, if he can somehow make sense of the whole fracas and bring about some unification, let him try. If it works, good. I heard today on a local station that Michael Richards will be returning to the Laugh Factory very soon to apologize to the customers who attended the show that night, all 200 of them [I guess there is some way to determine who was there]. In truth, I respect his decision to do that. That's a bigger statement to me than meeting with some politicos who see an opportunity for a media soundbite.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 8:22:16 PM)
First of all, he apologized publicly before anyone prompted him to (though it was a pretty crappy apology). Second, what does Michael Vick have to do with anything? He made an obscene gesture, not a racist one. I'm hardly going to defend him, but what's your point? Black people do stupid things too? quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong This weekend.. a black football player was frustrated at a play he made and flipped the bird to the fans. Do you think we will have Billy Grahm insist on meeting with him on television and radio and demand an apology to the fans who paid to see the game? No.. he MIGHT be fined a bit and we just have to accept he had a "moment".

TxBlkMistress -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 8:49:13 PM)
I love reading your post their are always fair no matter what side you take, unlike those that have to disagree, which is cool, but I don't see why they have to bring hate into their debate.......oh, and it didn't hurt me one bit when you said I did NOT look like Andy Rooney....LOL Thank you Level! (smooches)

TxBlkMistress -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 8:59:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DivineDarkDiva You're right, of course. I am not going to let a few folks ruin things for me either, but it was discouraging to read even the few. It was the first time I felt such things in the time I've been on this site. Been mad, been glad, been amused and bemused. Last night I was distressed, but today ... ah today! I am fierce. LOL Ok, maybe not fierce, but settled that whether we agree or not, this is a good place to be. Good for you....if they guy wants to be proud to be a hateful person, let him have at it...I wouldn't even bother responding to him....there just too many good people here. Glad you are not leaving!

Vernon4 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 9:47:40 PM)
Poor Jesse Jackson, this illigitimate Black son of the old South. Everything he does is filtered through the prevailing sentiment in our beloved land of the free and home of the slaves. Jesse is by definition a fraud as was Marcus Garvey, David Walker and Martin had to die to attain sainthood. Jesse aint perfect and I truly abhor his upper shady upper(E. Franklin Frazier.) noblesse oblige toward his brethren. Nothing that Jesse has done can come near the evil foisted on the world by our Democracy which rates people to this day on ethnicity, and melanin. Long live Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and everyother Black man who has managed to game this corrupt system. Goetz von berlighengen. I have been an expatriate for long years just because every Black man is cursed with the miasma of fear that permeate even a simple trip to the supermarket. "He jests at the scars who never felt the wounds."

Vernon4 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 9:54:04 PM)
Why is Jesse et al... Blacks held to a higher standard of behavior than Ken Lay, George Bush, Dick Cheney. Jesse is not responsible for the horror that has been so liberally visited upon the world by our beloved Country. "Let he who is without blemish cast the first stone." Vernon4

Vernon4 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 9:59:04 PM)
Dear DivineDarkDiva: Your surprise at the fact that racism is the as American as apple pie underwhelms me. This is a country built on the corner stones of genicide, slavery, exploitation for the good of the oligarchy which has as its byword GREED, GREED, GREED. OUR HISTORY IS FOX NEWS ABORNING.

Level -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/27/2006 10:37:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TxBlkMistress I love reading your post their are always fair no matter what side you take, unlike those that have to disagree, which is cool, but I don't see why they have to bring hate into their debate.......oh, and it didn't hurt me one bit when you said I did NOT look like Andy Rooney....LOL Thank you Level! (smooches) *You're very welcome smooches returned....* [:)]

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