RE: Kramer goes ballistic (Full Version)

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stef -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/28/2006 12:19:50 PM)

Maybe he's ranking the three of them according to height? 

~stef



LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/28/2006 1:29:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vernon4

Meat Cleaver:

History is written by the winners and that bowdlerized version of the history of the slave trade is another in a long line of justifications for evil. So the evil of the Whites is mitigated by the cupidity and internecine strife that slave trade caused in Africa. Do not compared African slavery with the race based slavery practiced by our European brethren. REMEMBER THE MANTRA, 'BLAME THE VICTIMS, ;THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE."

Vernon4


  The way things are going, the whites will be the minority in short order... what will life be like then?



popeye1250 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/28/2006 1:31:59 PM)

Everyone's a "victim" somehow these days.


"Sticks and stones shall break my bones but words shall never hurt me."



LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/28/2006 1:35:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Everyone's a "victim" somehow these days.


"Sticks and stones shall break my bones but words shall never hurt me."


Popeye, that hurt my feelings. I want an apology, in public, on 5 different stations and CNN.  You will then have to pay out $500,000 to every charity I tell you to.  (sniff.. sniff.. head toss, hair flip )



popeye1250 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/28/2006 1:38:54 PM)

Lotus, how many times is that guy going to have to appologise?
They could write a feckin Play about this for God's sake!



philosophy -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/28/2006 2:00:28 PM)

..height or toe-hairiness perhaps..........



LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/28/2006 2:03:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Lotus, how many times is that guy going to have to appologise?
They could write a feckin Play about this for God's sake!


... and they probably will  ("they"- meaning either side)



Level -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/28/2006 3:39:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vernon4

It is time for me to insist that we organize a committee to defend Jesse Jackson. His reputation on this site is somewhere between Bilbo and Foley. I remember Jesse for having done many a good deed in his time and I know that the good that he has done far outweighs the bad. There is something about the way that calumny is like a snowball rolling down the slopes at Mt. Snow. Jesse was there praying and sitting in, marching in, and getting his head whipped in when the rest of you were possibly lamenting the terrible things that happen in those bad places. Well children the bad places are here next door, across the street, and in your office. Jesse could long ago have retired to siring more children with all the women who admire his style, achievement and panache.


Insist all you wish, Vernon, I won't be on the line with the Reverend. I know he's done good things, and I have no particular dislike for him,  no moreso than for any other politician.



LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/28/2006 4:00:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vernon4

It is time for me to insist that we organize a committee to defend Jesse Jackson. His reputation on this site is somewhere between Bilbo and Foley. I remember Jesse for having done many a good deed in his time and I know that the good that he has done far outweighs the bad. There is something about the way that calumny is like a snowball rolling down the slopes at Mt. Snow. Jesse was there praying and sitting in, marching in, and getting his head whipped in when the rest of you were possibly lamenting the terrible things that happen in those bad places. Well children the bad places are here next door, across the street, and in your office. Jesse could long ago have retired to siring more children with all the women who admire his style, achievement and panache.


Insist all you wish, Vernon, I won't be on the line with the Reverend. I know he's done good things, and I have no particular dislike for him,  no moreso than for any other politician.


He can line right up with Bill Clinton. No one forgets the bad Bill did but they sure forget the good.  I firmly believe that a person should fight their own battles.
 
Too many jerks decide to rid on the coattails of those who deserve  honors when they, themselves have done nothing.



Vernon4 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/29/2006 12:55:03 PM)

The truth is that reasonable people can disagree about many things and there are not too many universal truths, and most of those can be trumped by the idiosyncracies of culture, geography, chemistry, and the vicissisitudes of time et al... My one sine qua non is that I must listen to my fellow humans, try with all that I have to understand them, and when I cannot, look for the flaw in me that precludes that understanding.. If the fault be theirs, then I eliminate all that I have contributed to that fault. When the egregious error persists, I run like hell from my humanitarian responsibility to excise this pathology from the body politic.

In the final analysis, when faced with the forced choice, I administer the antibiotic to kill he disease and return the body to the health it needs to survive.

I remember that often in Germany, the incurable child molester would chose surgical castration, and would invariably die on the operating table. "Operazion wahr glut, Patient gestorben." (The operation was a success but the patient died.)

Only on three occasions have I faced this Occam's Razor" of a choice, each time I failed to extirpate the pathology that I was so aboundantly aware of, and Many other people suffered because of my humanely inspired gutless cowardice.

Almost seventy years of Mitzvahs have not erased the pain that my own righteous arrogance kept me from my "deinst" to my fellow human beings.

Vernon4
Who failed to live up to Pastor Niemoler's predicttion.



LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/29/2006 1:00:45 PM)

Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. 
 
Teach a man to fish and he will can for a lifetime.
 
I will prefer to teach until the day I die.



Vernon4 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/29/2006 1:10:15 PM)

I would happily wash Kramer's feet and be his ?Shabos Goy" til he felt cleansed of his intemperate remarks.

Vernon4 who learned after long years of pain that learned the perfect logic of the statement that "No good deed ever goes unpunished." Having done the good deed is greater reward than the doer deserves.

By the way, I am an absolute atheist, and would be demeaned by a reward given to me for doing he right thing. So far, I have had the strength to refuse all such proffered reinforcements for doing what every righteous man ought to do.

Please don't offer to cure my cancer or keep the inexorable decline into senile decrepitude at bay. I am really weak, and I know it.



popeye1250 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/29/2006 1:24:12 PM)

Vernon, what the hell are you talking about?



Vernon4 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/29/2006 2:58:05 PM)

When I review some of my comments, I must sound at best misanthropic to most and at worst a racists to the rest. I admit that "Life for me ain't been no crystal stair>" but I had a foster father, a descendent of the Knights Templar, a Prussian Junker: Baron, Graft and titles too many to mention. He renounced all of this, estates, wealth, titles and accepted the draft into WWI as a common soldier (a conscientious objector) He won the highest honor for bravery that the ReichWehr gave, "Pour Le Merite." Never before given to a non-combatant.
He refused it.

After the war, he became a world renown dermatologist. When the Nazi Regime came to power, he did not flee, he was incarcerated and then placed in the KriegsMarines as a non-commissioned officer. and a lazarat, a field medic. This was the most dangerous job in the war. He survived seven years in a Russian Gulag. He saved manyof his colleagues by urging them to cover themselves with any available feces during winter.

He came home, not bitter, and found me, his mohrenkoft(Moorshead) or Negerkuss(Negrokiss). He always called me his kleine hasselnuss his little Hazelnut). He is responsible for the man that I am. I have not really spoken German since his death. He died young, eighty-six. He taught me so much about being a mensch, and insisted that I have a bar mitzvah even though neither of us was Jewish. He always said that I had to remember, Hasselnuss, du bis der letze der Gerechten. (The last of the Just.) In the Kabala, there are thirty-six JUST men born into each generation, and when the last of these Just (Righteous) men dies, the world will end.

He gave me my words to live by, "Homo sum, ergo, nihil humani no me alienum puto."

So, whatever I may seem to be, I am not, I am completely deracinated of the groups' prejudices, and I love the sinner but hate the sin and I am an Ur-atheist.

I have not been able to forgive the NAZI's, the Slavers, The Genicidal herd of every stripe and various and sundry other evil doers. Aber, Mein Vati would not treat Albrecht Speer and various other Nazi's.

And, when they come to get me (Pastor Niehmohler's poem,) I hope that I have left someong to protest.

Let us forgive Kramer....

"Let us forgive Ty Kendrick,
The night was dark.
The Negro was . . ."

I have at last answered Die Gretchefrage. Faust's lover Gretche's question. I believe in the goodness of man without the spurs of God's wrath.

Vernon4, I willl cultivate my garden.
(



LotusSong -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/29/2006 3:23:05 PM)

Dear Vernon,
 
 I hold to this premise for forgiveness:
 
"Forgiveness is giving up any hope of a different past".



popeye1250 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/29/2006 3:57:56 PM)

"As time goes byyyyyyyyyyy"
"A kiss is just a kiss..."



Sinergy -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/29/2006 7:33:29 PM)

Hello A/all, and in particular Vernon4.

Your words are lovely to read, and while I may disagree with certain aspects of them, I respect the path you have set yourself on and support you.

I have tried to take the route of Forgiveness, but I still have issues with Hitler, with Monkeyboy, with Charlemagne, with men who rape or assault others, and whoever, because my own personal beliefs tend to go with the idea that no person is unworthy of being blessed and upheld and cherished and protected.

I was having a long conversation this evening with a woman I teach full-contact women's self defense with.  She is a devout, evangelical Christian, who I would frequently spend hours of my life arguing with, and yet tonight we had a lovely conversation about a person we both encountered a few weeks ago who stated that our form of self-defense training was a violation of Biblical precepts.

I had always tended to avoid these conversations with her because of her devout beliefs, and yet, tonight, we found a common cause that we could both respect and support the other person for being a part of.

In other words, she stated that the person in question who considered self defense for women to be a violation of Christian precepts was simply idiotic.

In the final analysis, as far as I am concerned, we will all end up in the same place.  How we get there, to me, is what is important.

Just me, etc.

Sinergy



Vernon4 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/30/2006 2:38:51 AM)

Bilbo was one of Mississippi's most racist Senators,



Vernon4 -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/30/2006 2:41:24 AM)

My dear Sinergy:

I generally forgive posthumously.



meatcleaver -> RE: Kramer goes ballistic (11/30/2006 2:48:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vernon4

My dear Sinergy:

I generally forgive posthumously.


A woman once told me, forgiveness is overated and apologies are pointless.

She never apologized, I never forgave her.

That's life. Destined to be enemies into the here after.



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